no self

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Jadzia
Posts: 924
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:49 pm

I am sure that you will have heard this many times but it feels like nothing has changed and everything has changed. I am looking at everything and seeing 'new' aspects' and everything feels fresh.
This never gets cold, it is so beautiful. :-)

Do you know now why it is called Gateless Gate?
I am very calm and happy again this evening. I think there is much more to come as regards different feelings and situations. But I am definitely more prepared now that I have 'done' L.U.
Once the belief in being a separate self is seen through, the unraveling starts. There are a lot of beliefs and identifications connected to the core belief, they will show up and can be looked at and fade. Some people hardly notice the unraveling, for others it can be quite strong.

Enjoy whatever is there, this time after gating is so rich.

Observe what else changed or changes and share whatever you like.

Love,
Jadzia

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PauliePaul
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Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:47 am

Do you know now why it is called Gateless Gate?
Yes! It was always like this - I just couldn't see it.
Observe what else changed or changes and share whatever you like.
I will do Jadzia.

Love,
Paul

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Jadzia
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Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:46 am

How are you doing?

Love,
Jadzia

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PauliePaul
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Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:12 pm

I am doing well thanks Jadzia.
Just in the middle of a long walk - so will do a longer post later...
Love,
Paul

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PauliePaul
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Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:52 pm

Things are very slowly beginning to settle. Having to navigate the tricky process of agreeing on directions to walk has played a part.
I am becoming more patient. After all, if I am not in control, what is the point of impatience?
And I am watching, watching all the time. Saw a small animal that I would not have seen before. I want to watch and see rather than ruminate and decide. The world is opening up and offering possibilities.
Lots of good stuff.
Love
Paul

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Jadzia
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Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:39 am

Good to hear.
Having to navigate the tricky process of agreeing on directions to walk has played a part.
Is there a someone who has to navigate and agree?
Or are there some thoughts getting into the way of decision to simply happen.
Know this bit - have been there ;-)
I want to watch and see rather than ruminate and decide.
Is there a watcher? Or again some thoughts getting inbetween?

Everything is so interesting, isn't it? Back to directly experiencing, or?

We have a set of final questions which are helpful for you in having a look at what has been learned and for us in seeing if we got the main points coverd. Others will look over the answers and maybe ask questions.
It is your decision if you want to answer the questions.

Love,
Jadzia

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PauliePaul
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Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:01 am

Jadzia - I still feel as if I'm doing the navigating and agreeing and as if I'm the watcher. When I am looking it is direct experience some but not all of the time - thoughts come in...
I am not ready for the final questions. It did feel as if a shift had happened but now I am not sure...

Love,
Paul

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Jadzia
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Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:58 pm

We have all the time in the world.
What happens quite often after Gating is w the yo-yo-ing. You know you got it, you are pretty sure you didn’t, to and fro.
The belief in the self is a really strong one and it does need time to fade.
What helps is looking again and again and questioning thoughts the way you learned to.

Again where is the ‘I’ doing the navigating – look carefully, can you find it anywhere?
Maybe it is time to look into the cupboard (in case you didn’t already do it…..).

Same with the ‘watcher’, can this one be found anywhere by using the senses?

Or is there a kind of whatever feeling that there is a ‘watcher’?
Then have another look and describe how it looks like, what it does, where it resides.

If both can’t be found than the only place the ‘I’ and the ‘watcher’ “appear” are in thought content.
Question again: Does the thought content ever point to something real or only to other thoughts?


Answer all the questions and we go on like that until you are more sure than not. It takes a bit of time.

Is there an expectation that once it is seen there never will be doubt again????? Never ever?????
Who minds a bit or a bigger bit of doubt? Anyone there who would?

Love,
Jadzia

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PauliePaul
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Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:23 am

What happens quite often after Gating is w the yo-yo-ing. You know you got it, you are pretty sure you didn’t, to and fro.
The belief in the self is a really strong one and it does need time to fade.
This is what is happening with me.
Again where is the ‘I’ doing the navigating – look carefully, can you find it anywhere?
No.
Same with the ‘watcher’, can this one be found anywhere by using the senses?
No.
Or is there a kind of whatever feeling that there is a ‘watcher’?
Then have another look and describe how it looks like, what it does, where it resides.
What do you mean by a 'whatever feeling'?
If both can’t be found than the only place the ‘I’ and the ‘watcher’ “appear” are in thought content.
Question again: Does the thought content ever point to something real or only to other thoughts?
Only to other thoughts.
Is there an expectation that once it is seen there never will be doubt again????? Never ever?????
Who minds a bit or a bigger bit of doubt? Anyone there who would?
I hadn't really thought about this but there was a 'feeling' that this might happen - that there wouldn't be doubt.
And I can live with doubt!
Love,
Paul

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Jadzia
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Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:44 pm

I hadn't really thought about this but there was a 'feeling' that this might happen - that there wouldn't be doubt.
And I can live with doubt!
"I have a feeling" is sometimes just only a thought.
Remember
feeling/emotion = physical sensation + thought (label) + colour/form/seeing (Paulies body)

Is there a physical sensation seemingly attached to a watcher or not?

And the fictive I can live with something labeled thought in a story, or?
Can you find doubt in DE or what?

Love,
Jadzia

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PauliePaul
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Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:10 pm

Is there a physical sensation seemingly attached to a watcher or not?
No.
And the fictive I can live with something labeled thought in a story, or?
Can you find doubt in DE or what?
No - doubt does not exist in DE. Only in thought.

Love,
Paul

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Jadzia
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Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:20 am

Have a close look if there are any other expectations hidden, in whatever disguise they are there.
It might be something read somewhere what it is like after Gating or heard or dreamed of.

Love,
Jadzia

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PauliePaul
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Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:40 am

I don't have to look very far. A friend told me about LU a month or so before I began it. He described it in terms of how much it had advanced his spiritual path. For him, to use the colloquial term, it was a 'game changer'. He didn't make any references to doubt. But why would he? He is much more experienced, spiritually, than me.

Love,
Paul

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Jadzia
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Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:14 pm

He didn't make any references to doubt. But why would he? He is much more experienced, spiritually, than me.
Did you ever ask him directly?

So you expected a game changer?
What did you find? Isn't the realization that the self isn't exactly what one thought something that changes a lot?
How much does it have to change?
Dig deeper, what exactly did you expect to change? What should have disapeared, what did you expect to appear?
What did you imagine that life after gating is like?

Love,
Jadzia

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PauliePaul
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Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:05 pm

Did you ever ask him directly?
No.
So you expected a game changer?
No. I was intrigued though.
What did you find? Isn't the realization that the self isn't exactly what one thought something that changes a lot?
How much does it have to change?
I found that a self wasn't to be found in actual experience, that it was a product of thought and lots lots more.
This is enormous. I am not disappointed.
Dig deeper, what exactly did you expect to change? What should have disappeared, what did you expect to appear?
What did you imagine that life after gating is like?
I thought that some of my everyday anxieties might be eased. And they are. It is just that they haven't disappeared - yet!
The only answer that I can find to your last question is that it would be (radically) different.

Love,
Paul


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