Thank You

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
Essence
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:26 am

Thank You

Postby Essence » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:27 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
There is an understanding that “I” is nothing more than a concept that has been in the mind for most of this life. It does not exist anywhere in real life, but there is still a feeling of attachment to this concept that sometimes slips by. Not sure where to go from here.

What are you looking for at LU?
Confirmation that the self has been seen through would be greatly appreciated. But also, if there is a way to help others here I would love to assist. There is a feeling that the content posted here is indeed truth. However, there is also a feeling of resistance arising at times.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? No expectations here.
There is a feeling that seeing has happened, but also a fear that belief in a self will recreate itself. Deeper questions are now arising, like what is the source of desire? Is it just another mind trick or does it actually serve a purpose?

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Began with transcendental meditation about 5 years ago. Moved across the country about a year after, completely shed all identity (job, friends, hobbies) seeking truth. Became obsessed with spiritual books but never really felt right about going to church. Always felt like there’s a game going on here and people are just pretending to be serious. Was somehow led to your app, finished it, then read your book. Thank you so very much by the way.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 9

User avatar
Essence
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:26 am

Re: Thank You

Postby Essence » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:52 am

Ready whenever a guide is. Much love.

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 3949
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Thank You

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:34 pm

Hi,
Ready whenever a guide is. Much love.

A guide is. :) Are you ready?

Best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
Essence
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:26 am

Re: Thank You

Postby Essence » Tue May 01, 2018 12:29 am

Hey John,

Ready as ever! Thank you.

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 3949
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Thank You

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Tue May 01, 2018 6:02 pm

Hi Essence,

Great, let's take a look together.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? No expectations here.
There is a feeling that seeing has happened, but also a fear that belief in a self will recreate itself. Deeper questions are now arising, like what is the source of desire? Is it just another mind trick or does it actually serve a purpose?

Could you share with me what happened and when.
And where you are with it now.

With warm wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
Essence
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:26 am

Re: Thank You

Postby Essence » Wed May 02, 2018 1:20 am

Could you share with me what happened and when.
And where you are with it now.


I read through the “Gateless Gate” pdf book, and while reading tried findind the “I” and at some point it just clicked. “I” is nothing more than a thought.

Now it feels like these “I” thoughts still creep through, but it’s almost as if all these thoughts get filed into a drawer with no bottom and they just fall through.

Hopefully this is an explanation that can be understood.


Much love,

Essence

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 3949
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Thank You

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed May 02, 2018 10:16 am

Could you share with me what happened and when.
And where you are with it now.


I read through the “Gateless Gate” pdf book, and while reading tried findind the “I” and at some point it just clicked. “I” is nothing more than a thought.

Now it feels like these “I” thoughts still creep through, but it’s almost as if all these thoughts get filed into a drawer with no bottom and they just fall through.

Hopefully this is an explanation that can be understood.

Great, thank you. Could you share with me how everyday life now contrasts with prior to this happening.
Maybe examples from relationships, work, motivation, anything else you want to share.

With best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
Essence
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:26 am

Re: Thank You

Postby Essence » Thu May 03, 2018 12:30 am

Nothing has really changed. It feels like these stories about “me” and my dramas are still going on, only there is no identification with these thoughts.. they are just thoughts.

Work and relationships are mainly the same, there are frustrations at times but also a sense of acceptance with these frustrations. Like there’s no problem with them.

There is still a deep seeded desire to know what truth is. It feels like this realization helped peel away a huge layer of what I am not, but there is still a desire to see what really is. I know there is no self in this physical world, but what is this something that believed in a self all this time? That must be something.



Thank you,


Essence

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 3949
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Thank You

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Fri May 04, 2018 5:10 pm

Nothing has really changed. It feels like these stories about “me” and my dramas are still going on, only there is no identification with these thoughts.. they are just thoughts.

Work and relationships are mainly the same, there are frustrations at times but also a sense of acceptance with these frustrations. Like there’s no problem with them.

Ok, good. :)

There is still a deep seeded desire to know what truth is. It feels like this realization helped peel away a huge layer of what I am not, but there is still a desire to see what really is. I know there is no self in this physical world, but what is this something that believed in a self all this time? That must be something.

It's like certain books, that every time you read them, something else comes into view, and you wonder why you never saw that last time, or the time before, or the time before that.

What you see now is what you see.
If you heard some other way of how its supposed to be, you would rightly check your own experience, and either say, "No, that's bollocks," or "Yeah, fits with me."

This is what happens in the world of spiritual inquiry.

One says 'there is no self' and they are correct.
This is their experience and interpretation of that experience.
Another says, 'there is a true self' and they are correct.
This is their experience and interpretation of that experience.

Some might have the realisation you mention, and be fine with that. Totally fine.
Yet you have the realisation and have this desire to know more, the 'what is this something'.
Now we can write it off as a feeling that comes and goes.
Or is we assign some meaning to a feeling, we can write that off as a mere label.
This would be a materialistic approach, and if that floats you boat, that's fine.

But what if this desire to know the 'what is this something' doesn't go away.
What if it feels important. Does that make one wrong and the other right? No. Or more advanced? No.
Each to their own, and whatever makes living a joy will do for me. :)

The fact that you mention it suggests to me you already feel it, sense it, intuit it.

Let's approach this directly.

Here, right now, you know you are here - check it.
...and you don't know what that is.
You know without knowing how you know.
Spend a short while knowing you are here without any attempt to solve, or think about it.
Relax and let go, nothing to achieve, nowhere to go.
Given.
All is given. Receive for a short while.

With warm wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
Essence
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:26 am

Re: Thank You

Postby Essence » Sat May 05, 2018 6:40 pm

Thank you for your insights John, I sat with your words for a while until they became clear.

Here, right now, you know you are here - check it.
...and you don't know what that is.
You know without knowing how you know.
Spend a short while knowing you are here without any attempt to solve, or think about it.
Relax and let go, nothing to achieve, nowhere to go.
Given.
All is given. Receive for a short while.


“A knowing” sounds like the perfect term for it. There’s a knowing that this moment is happening, but as soon as one tries to look deeper at what this is the mind immediately starts generating thoughts centered around “me” and the feeling of self returns. It feels like these thoughts are running on a sort of script, as if this mind can only think based on presets or conditioning.

What motives me to do anything in life is a deep desire to know freedom. Is freedom only experienced by not identifying with the mind? Freedom with a thinking mind doesn’t feel very free since thoughts are generated in patterns.

There is at times a glimpse of this something that exists without thoughts. This something that just knows. The difficulty in connecting with it is that this “knowing” doesn’t speak, it just knows. Whenever one tries to speak it uses the mind and those thoughts jump in the way. Like the mind is a chameleon that jumps up whenever a question is asked. Is this the way experience continues?



Thank you for your insight,


Essence

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 3949
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Thank You

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sun May 06, 2018 12:32 am

Hi,

“A knowing” sounds like the perfect term for it. There’s a knowing that this moment is happening, but as soon as one tries to look deeper at what this is the mind immediately starts generating thoughts centered around “me” and the feeling of self returns. It feels like these thoughts are running on a sort of script, as if this mind can only think based on presets or conditioning.

You describe this so well. It comes down to the distinction between intuitive knowing and knowing through observation. We were trained into knowing only through observation. Observation is king. Unless it is observable and nameable, it is disregarded.

So it is a renewal of intuitive knowing. A re-cognition. Oh yeah, that!

The thoughts are an attempt the remap the intuitive in terms of the known - to wrap it in some concept: feeling, sensation, idea etc.

What motives me to do anything in life is a deep desire to know freedom. Is freedom only experienced by not identifying with the mind? Freedom with a thinking mind doesn’t feel very free since thoughts are generated in patterns.

To the extent we are non-conscious (or away with the fairies, as my old mum would say) freedom is absent, we are subject to compulsion. Yes, non-identification with thoughts is important, not to disregard, but to see them in their rightful place.

There is at times a glimpse of this something that exists without thoughts. This something that just knows. The difficulty in connecting with it is that this “knowing” doesn’t speak, it just knows. Whenever one tries to speak it uses the mind and those thoughts jump in the way. Like the mind is a chameleon that jumps up whenever a question is asked. Is this the way experience continues?


Why should it speak? Sure, our obsession with observability, with the known, demands that a net of meaning must be thrown over it. Then again, take a fresh approach to knowing. Ask nothing of it. Draw into it. You might be open to such knowing permeating experience.


Explore.

Warm wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
Essence
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:26 am

Re: Thank You

Postby Essence » Sun May 06, 2018 10:11 pm

In your experience does this feeling of self ever fade? At this point it feels like either I’ve seen through self or my “self” is so sophisticated that it just believes to have to seen through itself. It feels as funny as it sounds lol.

I understand that self is nothing but thought, but the feelings associated with it are so familiar that I find myself randomly re-engaged with it.. then seeing through it again. Kind of feels like living in two worlds at once, and not really any. Is there a way to anchor to one perspective over another, does it happen over time?

Funny but I hadn’t even considered making life more enjoyable as a goal until you mentioned it. This mind has been so obsessed with figuring out what the truth of existence is that it hadn’t even considered enjoying it as an option. Thank you for mentioning it, seems like that wasn’t included as one of my presets, lol.



Much love,


Essence

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 3949
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Thank You

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Mon May 07, 2018 12:10 am

In your experience does this feeling of self ever fade? At this point it feels like either I’ve seen through self or my “self” is so sophisticated that it just believes to have to seen through itself. It feels as funny as it sounds lol.

You could say 'self' is like a song that has been played through you as the instrument for years.
It never occurred to you that you were anything other than the song.
And then, one day, you got an inkling that it was not quite as it seemed.
You saw the song, and saw you were not the song.
But the song continued.
And you were in and out of the song like a yo-yo.
But each time you see the song as a song, you are less and less drawn into the song.
The song fades because it no longer has your attention.

I understand that self is nothing but thought, but the feelings associated with it are so familiar that I find myself randomly re-engaged with it.. then seeing through it again. Kind of feels like living in two worlds at once, and not really any. Is there a way to anchor to one perspective over another, does it happen over time?

Best not to approach it as goal, but a continuum of seeing clearer and clearer. And so, cultivating the conditions in which insights occur. Preparing the soil.

Funny but I hadn’t even considered making life more enjoyable as a goal until you mentioned it. This mind has been so obsessed with figuring out what the truth of existence is that it hadn’t even considered enjoying it as an option. Thank you for mentioning it, seems like that wasn’t included as one of my presets, lol.

Yeah, there's not much joy in seeking for more truth - it's a bit of a slog. :D

warm wishes,
john
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
Essence
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:26 am

Re: Thank You

Postby Essence » Mon May 07, 2018 2:38 am

The “self as a song” metaphor makes perfect sense.

The majority of this lifetime has been spent feeling like a ghost trapped inside of a mind desperately trying to find a way out. Seeing the self as a song stuck on replay inspires me to keep this instrument in tune so new songs can come through, instead of just trying to escape the noise.

This sounds like a better perspective to take. Thank you.



Essence

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 3949
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Thank You

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Mon May 07, 2018 2:33 pm

The “self as a song” metaphor makes perfect sense.

The majority of this lifetime has been spent feeling like a ghost trapped inside of a mind desperately trying to find a way out. Seeing the self as a song stuck on replay inspires me to keep this instrument in tune so new songs can come through, instead of just trying to escape the noise.

Yes, seeing that from time to time, triggered by this or that context, relationship, the song of self plays.
Usually when we are not conscious, and have gone a bit dreamy. :)

If you clap once, you will be conscious again. Recognise and appreciate the difference.

Best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests