Awakening

[Amynff]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
My understanding now is that there is no me like I had imagined inside this mind/body. What I thought was there is not.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking to fully awaken to the truth of the no self. This I thought is still very setting for me and I still experience myself as a separate person. I want to see clearly/recognize what I’m seeing. The simple experience of not getting frustrated with the thoughts I think by seeing things as they had a sense of deep peace.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I hope to gain clarity by the guided conversation. Enough clarity that with time I recognize the truth and my perspective changes bringing more peace. Having a conversation that changes my perspective feels like the most important thing I can do.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
My experience started as a Christian, then a yoga practitioner, mixing in Buddhism and Hinduism the last 10 years. I have read one of Douglas Hardings books and done his experiments.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Sarah7]

Hi
I’m Sarah and I’d be happy to speak with you. What would you like me to call you?
Have you looked around our site? You know what we do here?
Looking forward to speaking with you.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Amynff]

Hi Sarah,

You can call me Amy. Yes, I have looked at the site and understand what your doing.

Thank you,


Amy

[Sarah7]

Hi Amy!
Nice to meet you!

and I still experience myself as a separate person.

Did or do you expect this to not happen?

The simple experience of not getting frustrated with the thoughts

Do you expect frustrati9n to disappear?

and my perspective changes bringing more peace.

Are you after peace? And possibly expect peace to remain?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Amynff]

Yes to all. I had expectations, strong beliefs about life after seeing. I recognize the folly in all the expectations the more I see the empty nature of thoughts.

[Sarah7]

Hey Amy
So they aren’t expectations anymore?
Are you spotting them when they come up?

Bit of house keeping:

In general, I will ask questions and you look deeply and respond with 100% honesty.

Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.

Responses are best from direct experience (the physical evidence of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, and smelling, prior to the story or explanation about them). Long-winded, analytical and philosophical or stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. Just listen very closely to the answers that arise in you, and answer to the very best of your ability at that time. Read the article at for more help on distinguishing what is direct experience: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/reso ... xperience/

Please learn to use the quote function.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Amynff]

HI Sarah,

So they aren’t expectations anymore?

yes, they are still there.

Are you spotting them when they come up?

yes, i spot them and treat them like any other thought.

Trying to learn the quote function on this site. I may not have it figured out yet.
[/quote]

Looking forward to your questions.

Thank you,

Amy

[Sarah7]

Hey Amy
Took me while too with the quote thing!

yes, i spot them and treat them like any other thought

Which is?
Are thoughts to be got rid of? Stopped? Or...?

Do you intentionally bring thoughts? Or do they come and go on their own? If you do bring them from where and
how?
Can you send them away, stop them or get rid?
Can you suppress your next thought before it arises? Does it work?
Do you know what you're going to think before you think it? Sit quietly for a moment and try to predict your next thought. Does it work?
Do you plan what you are going to think before you think it?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Amynff]

Hi Sarah,

Treating all thoughts the same!

Which is?
Are thoughts to be got rid of? Stopped? Or...?

Pushing the thoughts away or wanting to make certain thoughts stop still comes up. I catch myself doing that. It feels like a cycle of noticing the thought and sometimes watching it pass and sometimes feeling resistance. I had a very intense feeling of insecurity for a good portion of a day this week. It was intense and I kept watching it, YES, in hopes it would go away sooner than later. I kept telling myself this would pass. I wanted it to go away so I felt better in the moment. Then there are times when I can see thoughts arise and pass with clarity no matter what the content.

Do you intentionally bring thoughts? Or do they come and go on their own? If you do bring them from where and
how?

I do not know really. There are random thoughts that seem to come from nowhere and go back to nowhere. Then there are thoughts, something(that sense of me i cannot find), that seems to think things out fully in an effort to say something or to create a new project. There feels to be random thoughts out of control and deliberate thoughts about steps to cooking a meal let's say.

Can you send them away, stop them or get rid?

No, it does not appear that I can. They are there and then they are gone. Most of the time I cannot recollect the thought I was concerned about 5 minutes earlier.

Can you suppress your next thought before it arises? Does it work?

No, I cannot. No, I tried it does not work, not for me.

Do you know what you're going to think before you think it? Sit quietly for a moment and try to predict your next thought. Does it work?

I cannot seem to predict my next thought.

Do you plan what you are going to think before you think it?

No, it I cannot find a plan for my thinking.

Thank you,

amy

[Sarah7]

Morning Amy

I do not know really. There are random thoughts that seem to come from nowhere and go back to nowhere. Then there are thoughts, something(that sense of me i cannot find), that seems to think things out fully in an effort to say something or to create a new project. There feels to be random thoughts out of control and deliberate thoughts about steps to cooking a meal let's say.

Let’s take the deliberate thoughts here and repeat the questions. Ok!
Do you bring the deliberate thoughts? If so from where and how?
Do you send deliberate thoughts away?
Can you suppress or plan out the next deliberate thought.
In other words do you control them in any way?
Maybe watch them when you are cooking?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Amynff]

Do you bring the deliberate thoughts? If so from where and how?

No

Do you send deliberate thoughts away?

No

Can you suppress or plan out the next deliberate thought.
In other words do you control them in any way?

No, it is all just happening and to no one.

Thank you,

Amy

[Sarah7]

Morning Amy
Is there is a thought that you can control?

Can thought think? In other words do you actually experience a thought thinking?

What can a thought do – what power does it have?

You experience thoughts, but do you experience the content? Is the content real?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Amynff]

Hi Sarah,

Is there is a thought that you can control?

Does not seem so.

Can thought think? In other words do you actually experience a thought thinking?

No I cannot. Just thoughts.

What can a thought do – what power does it have?

Nothing.

You experience thoughts, but do you experience the content? Is the content real?

Emotionally it feels like you experience the content of thoughts, but no the content is NOT real.

Thank you,

Amy

[Sarah7]

Hey Amy
Ok so let’s have a look into seperation. Starting off with sight.

Gaze at an object. Turn up that inner magnifying glass to observe what's happening in direct experience. In seeing, what is being experienced? What is happening when "seeing" is happening? What is doing the seeing? What is being seen? What does "seeing" consists of? Describe the actual, direct experience of seeing. Do you first perceive the object using some other sense, and then see it later? Can you find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it? Or are the object and the seeing of it inseparable? Is there an entity called "you" experiencing the seeing? Can you find a dividing line between "you" and seeing? Is it an accurate description of direct experience? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and seer and an object? Or is there only seeing? What do you see about the thought, "I'm seeing that object"?

Try it with various sights e.g. out of the window at a distant view. See if you can find a way to separate the object from the seeing and the seeing from the seer. Where does one start and the other end? How many senses are there here - 1 or more?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Amynff]

In seeing, what is being experienced? What is happening when "seeing" is happening? What is doing the seeing? What is being seen? What does "seeing" consists of?

In seeing, there is an object in the same space as the seeing. When "seeing" is happening, that which is seen and that which sees are not separate. What does the seeing feels like presence, being, empty awareness. What is being seen from this view are forms in this formless presence. Seeing consist of a recognition of everything including my body, thoughts, feelings, in this formless presence. I cannot find a line that divides this awareness with the objects in awareness.

Do you first perceive the object using some other sense, and then see it later? Can you find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it?

No, it does not seem like it appears through anything but the seeing. I can feel the pillow under my seat, the cloth on my body, but i recognize the feeling in the space of seeing.

Or are the object and the seeing of it inseparable?

No separation in my experience.

Is there an entity called "you" experiencing the seeing?

Cannot find such an entity.

Can you find a dividing line between "you" and seeing?

No!

Is it an accurate description of direct experience?

The simplicity of it brings up old doubts whether I am experiencing true seeing or not, but I recognize the thoughts now as another experience within in this space of empty seeing that arises and passes away.

Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and seer and an object?

My direct experience is that I cannot find an I, other than a thought of me/I, the seer is clear of any form, and yes, object appear in this seeing, but the separation does not exist. it all appears in this space.

Or is there only seeing? What do you see about the thought, "I'm seeing that object"?

Only seeing in my direct experience. I immediately ask myself, who is seeing the object. When the old thought, I am seeing the object came up, I ask who and where thisI is. I cannot find it once again. The thought, "I'm seeing that object is in the same space as the seer.

Where does one start and the other end? How many senses are there here - 1 or more?

In seeing it is seamless, just all in the seeing. I cannot find where it begins or ends. The sense of touch, feeling the pillow under my bum, and the touch of my clothes on my skin are in the space of the seeing. The seeing seems to contain everything, making for 1 sense.

Thank you,

Amy