Seeing Truth happening through Sky Kim

[SkyKim]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand the concept that there is no self, "me", or false sense of authorship. All there is.. is Consciousness. There is great intense in Sky Kim body mind that want to see it. There is feeling arising here, it's time to SEE.

What are you looking for at LU?
Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing!

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Help with removing false sense of self. It cannot be removed, because it never been existed and it's uncaused like everything else. However, it's false. But, there is still illusion here. Cannot find a way yet. I have heard enough what Truth is, and I'm very clear that Seeing is only way to Truth. All I know so far is nothing more than garbage without Seeing.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've been with Wayne Liquorman, sage for 10 years. Before Wayne, I' been here and there. I've been looking for Truth. Just Curious. This curiosity doesn't go away. I'm in Tiger's mouth. No escape, so far.

Here, in me, there is intensity looking for SEEING. However, I don't call it anxiety. Only One big "?" mark. Death to curious. I'm ready to give up all to SEE.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[SkyKim]

_()_ _()_ _()_
Three bow down to the Buddahs, guides, here allowing me in for help. I just literally bowed down to this computer by following Korean Buddhist tradition, which I'd been raised in early life, to express my sincerity. I'm Sooooooo glad to join here. Thank you for letting me in. In short time, I worried about not being accepted.

Recently starting 2-3 months ago, I feel there is the second Fire occuring in me. This time, it's in my head. 5 years ago, with Wayne liquorman, my Guru, and his awakened disciple Bala, I experienced the first Fire, in my pit of the stomach. For about a week, I felt buring fire in my pit of the stomach. After one week of burning feeling, all of sudden, those teachings from Wayne turns from Interlecture to Heart. My mind opened to all his teachings. It was not understanding. I was finanlly ready to listen with real open heart.

After 5 years later from the first Fire, I have some pressure kind of feeling in My head. It feels like Intensity. It comes and goes. But, I feel it gets more and more intense. When I work, it goes. When I listen to teaching from awakened ones, it comes. Sometimes, tears down.

Wayne is absence in travel for Satsang. Also, I started to feel I need additional help along with the second Fire. While I was searching Bernadette Roberts who Wayne was mentioned, the video of Lisa Kahale appeared by accident of YouTube. I watched her video thiking I was watching Bernadette. I found out she is Lisa, Not Bernadette soon.

Lisa's 17 videos from YouTube 1000% resonates with me. Tears down. It was like pouring gasoline to my Fire. I have been watching her videos over and over for about two weeks. Specially, when she speaks about the direct expereince of awakening as is, whithout leveling down to those who are not familiar with this subject, I am struct most. I ordered her book 'Awakening True' and found this site 'Liberation Unleashed', she recommends strongly.

This second Fire is here, feeling like in my head, strangly. I feel someting is going on and I feel I have to facilitate it. I came to conclusion along with this Fire that Seeing is the only way. It's time to SEE and I need additional HELP.


I’m a blind.
I lost my sight before turning to 3 years old and do not remember the light.

An awaken approaches and sings:
how beautiful the spring wild flowers are,
how touching the changing color of sunset is,
how joyful looking at the loved one's eyes is.

I can feel
the beauty of flowers,
the touching moment of the sunset,
the joy of looking at the loved one's eyes.
Tears down with deep gratitude to the awaken ones singing for me.

I share my feeling with other blind friends:
the beauty of flowers,
the touching moment of sunset,
the joy of seeing loved one.
Some enjoys, some doubts, some gets anger,
most turn around and leave with no attention.

Joy comes and goes, despair comes and goes.
Sometime I fullfilled with the hope for the day of SEEING.
Awakened ones encourage and console.

The more I listen the singing of awaken ones,
the more it gets clear that I'm a blind.

Not a single moment,
I never forgot I'm a blind.

--------
I lives in Los Angeles and works for LA Court as a software engineer. I came to US in 1999 to study from South Korea (Not North! :)) I'm not good at English, just enough to communicate and keep my job. Please understand my broken English. And always welcome and thankful to your comment/help on my English.
Married, Husband and Daddy of two young daughters, which is my biggest joy of life.

I enjoy my life with my family. I'm not miserable, very happy. But desperate to SEE with big curiosity.
Please HELP!

[Matthew]

Hello there and welcome!

Let us continue the conversation here.

There is no seeker, no path. All illusion.
However, the illusion is real to this one in the dream.
A thought occurred to the one in the dream, "It's dream, it's time to wake up. I want to wake up...The one in the dream does not have any power.."

The one in the dream does not have any power, yes.
Because he only exists in imagination.
An illusory image or personality has no power.

"A thought occurred to the one in the dream"

Have a direct look at "the one in the dream"!
Attend to it closely.
What is it made of?
Do thoughts truly occur to this "one"?
Or could it be that "the one in the dream" is also just a thought?



Looking forward to your reply!

With kindest regards
Matthew

[SkyKim]

I put the previous conversation from facebook for me to review it here together. Sometimes, I review previous conversations to answer to a new question.

----------------Post by Matthew » Tue Mar 25
You say:

"I could not believe that I could ever awake in this life."

What is not awake right now!?

---------------Sky Kim » Tue Mar 25
Thank you for the clarification!
Deep understanding here that there is a NO awakened person, but there is Awakening Happening. Awakening means cease of "I", the false idea, I don't want to achieve enlightenment, there is no such thing. Here, in this body mind, is strong and intense desire happening to "SEE".

"BS from the non-BS": I'm not sure what BS stands for.

The idea "I could not believe that I could ever awake in this life" dissolves recently..

"What is not awake right now?"

Truly, honestly, I do NOT know. However, deep Resonance here, with that 'All there is.. is Consciousness", "what or who awake?", only strong desire to remove false sense of 'I' fuzzing Truth.

Thank you, _()_

----------------Post by Matthew » Tue Mar 25
The question remains.
Have a look at what is here now.
Have a look around if you like.
The entire bandwidth of experience.

What here now is not awake?
Can you find anything that is not awake?

---------------Sky Kim » Tue Mar 26
Thank you for your question. I look whole day.

I see "awaring", that's it.

I cannot find anything that is not awake. Rather, I dropped awake or not-awake. I found that 'Not awaking' or 'cannot awake' concept causes awaking.

This is my sincere answer.

Thank you, _()_

----------------Post by Matthew » Tue Mar 26
Right.
All there is is an idea about a self, which is not awake and needs to awaken.

Question is:

Does this "self" exist apart from an idea/thought about it?

Can this "self" be found?

---------------Sky Kim » Tue Mar 26

"Does this "self" exist apart from an idea/thought about it?"

=> No. It's just a thought. It has been developed and accumulated so long, it turned very sticky and disguised. But, it's just a thought. This is what I found. I see it's still stuck and disguised, but found.

Can this "self" be found?

=> So, "Yes and No". Yes, it is found as a thought. But, No, it is false, disguised, recognized.

Thank you, _()_

----------------Post by Matthew » Tue Mar 26
Can a thought be stuck?

---------------Sky Kim » Tue Mar 26
Matthias, I'm registered to LU forum and have waited for a guide.

I've looked at your question. Here is what I found. Thoughts come and go. Some stay long, some stay short. All eventually go. No control over it. It's happening like everything else does. Thought cannot be stuck. It can be stuck to false self, which is illusion as well as the idea of 'Stuck'. Seeker must disappear.

Thank you, _()_

----------------Post by Matthew » Tue Mar 26
Exactly.
The idea of being stuck is also just an illusion. In reality, nothing is stuck.
Nothing and no one was ever stuck.

The seeker can only disappear if the seeker existed to begin with.

That which does not exist neither appears nor disappears.

Is there a seeker?
Or is there just a thought story about a seeker?

Was there truly a path, or had you just imagined/dreamed of being on a path?

---------------Sky Kim » Tue Mar 26
Matthias, thank you for being patient with me. Deeply appreciate it!

There is no seeker, no path. All illusion.
However, the illusion is real to this one in the dream.
A thought occurred to the one in the dream, "It's dream, it's time to wake up. I want to wake up...The one in the dream does not have any power.."

Thank you, _()_

----------------Post by Matthew » Tue Mar 26
Hey Sky!
Let us continue in the forum, shall we?

---------------Sky Kim » Tue Mar 26
Sure, please.


----------------Post by Matthew » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:07 am
Hello there and welcome!

Let us continue the conversation here.

There is no seeker, no path. All illusion.
However, the illusion is real to this one in the dream.
A thought occurred to the one in the dream, "It's dream, it's time to wake up. I want to wake up...The one in the dream does not have any power.."

The one in the dream does not have any power, yes.
Because he only exists in imagination.
An illusory image or personality has no power.

"A thought occurred to the one in the dream"

Have a direct look at "the one in the dream"!
Attend to it closely.
What is it made of?
Do thoughts truly occur to this "one"?
Or could it be that "the one in the dream" is also just a thought?



Looking forward to your reply!

With kindest regards
Matthew

[SkyKim]

Dear Matthias,

What is it made of?

I don't know.

Do thoughts truly occur to this "one"?

Thought can occur to only the dreamer, not the one in the dream. All occurs to the dreamer, which is called That, Consciousness, etc.

Or could it be that "the one in the dream" is also just a thought?

Yes, it is just a thought.

Suddenly, I feel I answered to your questions with just knowledge that I heard from someone.
I don't see this is dream. I heard it, trusted it and believe it.

[Matthew]

Suddenly, I feel I answered to your questions with just knowledge that I heard from someone.

It is great that you've seen this yourself!

This is the time of letting go.
You learned a great amount ABOUT the truth in the past.
This knowledge was meant to arouse your curiosity. And to bring you to a point, from which you can look for yourself what is true and what is not.
This was achieved. The knowledge served you well. It was good. It may now pass!

the dreamer, which is called That, Consciousness, etc.

Can you drop those ideas?



What if there was not even an entity called "dreamer"?
What if there is just this giant dream/simulation/life/experience going on with no one behind it doing the dreaming?

There is no true identity.

What comes up when reading this?
Is there eagerness or maybe also resistance?

Can you imagine to live without ANY sense of identity?

[SkyKim]

Dear Matthias,

the dreamer, which is called That, Consciousness, etc.
Can you drop those ideas?

Sure, why not.

What if there was not even an entity called "dreamer"?
What if there is just this giant dream/simulation/life/experience going on with no one behind it doing the dreaming?

There is no true identity.

It's OK. I don't care how True looks like. I want to see Truth. So, I don't care "what if" stuffs. I want to see as is, not fake, but Truth.

What comes up when reading this?
Is there eagerness or maybe also resistance?

I read this feeling at home. No resistance or any emotion. Along with the previous reply, the intensity and the feeling in my head for last few months went away strangely. I'm not sure if gone forever or comes back. But, for now it's not here when I read yours and reply this. I used to feel strong intensity such as feeling some kind of pressure in my head. I feel just normal.. anyway...

Can you imagine to live without ANY sense of identity?

Why not? I've lived so far. This is clear from my experience that I've lived without my intention, starting from Birth all the way until now.
I'm not sure what 'Identity' means here.

Thank you,
_()_

[Matthew]

Sounds great!


Concerning some points in your introductory words here.
The term "seeing" can also be substituted with the term "knowing".
Seeing things as they are is knowing things as they are.
To be aware of things as they are.
To experience things as they are.
It has nothing to do with visual sight. It is just a term to illustrate this.



You are also referring to a sense of fire, which is burning in the body.
This is a great indicator!
What is burning down is the structure of beliefs. The many untruthful things are been felt through and drop away somewhat gradually. At some point, there will be simply nothing left to burn down, the fire will subside and what will be left is just unspectacular, but rooted, grounded and sober clarity.
What I'm trying to say:
Do not cling to this sense of burning.

You say:

I feel there is the second Fire occuring in me

Speaking of "THE second fire" means that you learned about it in the past?
Never heard of a "first" and "second" fire.
Are there more fires anticipated?
All this may or may not happen.
It does not matter too much.
These are also just appearances. To have or not have those appearances is no proof, that something is going right or wrong.

Experiencing this fire is good.
But giving it a great deal of meaning and clinging to it can lead into a dead end.

This is clear from my experience that I've lived without my intention, starting from Birth all the way until now.
I'm not sure what 'Identity' means here.

So it is clear that there is no one, no "self" which is controlling intention.
There is not even a sense of a concrete identity.
Good good good!

I'm in Tiger's mouth. No escape, so far.

What then is in Tiger's mouth?
What is trapped and needs to escape?
Is there TRULY anything trapped right now?

Please describe, how that is experienced.
How is the "trapped thing" experienced.
Where can it be found? What is the evidence of its existence?

No thinking about.
Just look at the present experience, look for that what is trapped.
And tell me what comes up as an answer spontaneously!



Looking forward to your reply!

[SkyKim]

Sounds great!

Thank you! _()_

Concerning some points in your introductory words here.
The term "seeing" can also be substituted with the term "knowing".
Seeing things as they are is knowing things as they are.
To be aware of things as they are.
To experience things as they are.
It has nothing to do with visual sight. It is just a term to illustrate this.

I used the term exactly the same way. I leaned the term from various teachers including Wayne, Lisa. I can drop the term as well.

You are also referring to a sense of fire, which is burning in the body.
This is a great indicator!
What is burning down is the structure of beliefs. The many untruthful things are been felt through and drop away somewhat gradually. At some point, there will be simply nothing left to burn down, the fire will subside and what will be left is just unspectacular, but rooted, grounded and sober clarity.
What I'm trying to say:
Do not cling to this sense of burning.

Speaking of "THE second fire" means that you learned about it in the past?
Never heard of a "first" and "second" fire.
Are there more fires anticipated?
All this may or may not happen.
It does not matter too much.
These are also just appearances. To have or not have those appearances is no proof, that something is going right or wrong.

Experiencing this fire is good.
But giving it a great deal of meaning and clinging to it can lead into a dead end.

Thank you for the explanation. I have no sense of 'cling to the sense'. It's just a story.

What then is in Tiger's mouth?
What is trapped and needs to escape?
Is there TRULY anything trapped right now?

Please describe, how that is experienced.
How is the "trapped thing" experienced.
Where can it be found? What is the evidence of its existence?

It's just another knowledge learned from teachers regarding Ramana Maharshi's quote describing once curious about Truth arises, it flows as is without your intention to pursuit or not.
I can drop this as well.

No thinking about.
Just look at the present experience, look for that what is trapped.

I don't see any thing trapped. More preciously, it seems irrelevant. I dropped the notion.

And tell me what comes up as an answer spontaneously!

Do you want me to reply asap to your post? Or it's better to wait for hours to reply?
I watched Ilona's video and understood it's better to wait for hours or a day instead of replying right away because the spontaneous reply could be done by just mind.
I think I got wrong. I can drop Ilona's comment. I'll follow your guide. I have 100% Trust on you.
Also, somehow I don't feel like to read or watch video of teaching for now. It disappeared now.
I focus on this forum conversation only. Not even "LU's Enlightening Quotes" app, I feel all those other teachings might cause additional knowledge and only obstacle to this process.

[Matthew]

You recognise all these stumbling blocks yourself.
Amazing!

Yes. There is no external input needed anymore.
Not from books, not from videos.
Trust only in your own insight and innate wisdom. Ever again!

"In whichever soul God's Kingdom appeareth, and which knoweth God's Kingdom, that soul needeth no human preaching or instruction; it is taught from within and assured of eternal life."
-Meister Eckhart


And there are no rules about answering.
Just an advice.
Wait until an answer shows up by itself.
This can be after 30 minutes, or a day later.
But this can also be immediately!
There are no rules to that.

I don't see any thing trapped.

Exactly.
All there was is an idea about a something or a someone, which is trapped.
This someone never existed outside of an idea.
In reality, nothing and no one was ever trapped.



Is there anything not awake right now?

Is there a "one" who is now not awake and needs to awaken?
Or is that maybe also just an idea, imagination?

[SkyKim]

Is there anything not awake right now?

Is there a "one" who is now not awake and needs to awaken?
Or is that maybe also just an idea, imagination?

It's also something I learned.
I drop the idea as well.

Thank you, _()_

[Matthew]

So now.
Many things were learned.
All these things can easily be dropped again.

Something trapped?
No. That was just learned and believed.
In reality there is nothing trapped here.

A dreamer experiencing thoughts?
No. That was just learned and believed.
In reality there is no dreamer to be found.

And many more that were already recognised up to this point.


What other things come up?
What other things were just learned and believed?
Things that caused confusion and seeking?
Things that should not cause confusion and seeking because they simply DO NOT EXIST in reality?
What other beliefs can be regognised?

[SkyKim]

Code: Select all

What other things come up? What other things were just learned and believed? Things that caused confusion and seeking? Things that should not cause confusion and seeking because they simply DO NOT EXIST in reality? What other beliefs can be regognised?

- The false self, false "I", false "me", false sense of authorship... All are marked "false" which means it must go away because it's false.
- I'm a seeker.
These are big things recognized, learned and believed.

Thank you, _()_

[Matthew]

I'm a seeker.

Does the seeker exist outside of a thought story?
In other words:
Does the seeker exist apart from thought content?

Is there a seeker?
Or are there thoughts about a seeker?

[SkyKim]

Does the seeker exist outside of a thought story?
In other words:
Does the seeker exist apart from thought content?

It's thought.

Is there a seeker?
Or are there thoughts about a seeker?

Seeker is a story, thoughts based on learning. I learned there is Truth to seek. Then I've considered myself a seeker.
I can drop this "there is Truth to seek" and "I'm a seeker" as well.