I want to stop this now!

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tek
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I want to stop this now!

Postby tek » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:01 am

Hi,

I've been on the spiritual path for many years now, and even though I've had moments of total clarity and experiences of what I can only describe as Samahdi, it has never been enough. The search has always continued. I am never satisfied it seems.

It has gone so far that I'm actually sick and tired of this now. I don't feel that there is any purpose in living this life. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suicidal. But I'm not excited about life either. What I'm experience is probably apathy.

I don't want to suffer like this anymore. Please, could someone help me?

tek

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Eloratea
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Re: I want to stop this now!

Postby Eloratea » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:28 am

Hi Tek,

I would be glad to help you. You sound ready to see the truth.

So, if I say that - there is no you, never was and
that because of the unexamined assumption that there is some real, separate you this what is looks so unsatisfying and unbearable, what comes up?

This is about looking into the direct experience -here and now- and 100% honest responding from there without any second-hand, learned stuff.

Thank you for coming :)

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tek
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Re: I want to stop this now!

Postby tek » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:16 pm

I would be glad to help you. You sound ready to see the truth.
Thank you. I am ready.
So, if I say that - there is no you, never was and
that because of the unexamined assumption that there is some real, separate you this what is looks so unsatisfying and unbearable, what comes up?
It really depends upon how you define "you".

That I exist, there is no question about. The only thing I know for certain is "I am". Saying "I don't exist" is contradictory and illogical.

However, if you are referring to some thought form I understand that that is not who I am.

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Re: I want to stop this now!

Postby Eloratea » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:38 pm

Hey, this is thinking, not looking at the experience:
It really depends upon how you define "you".
That I exist, there is no question about.
What is known for sure to be true?
What really exists is what exists even when you don't think about it, when you stop believe in it. Does „I“ belong to this category? Close your eyes and try to locate “I”.
Where is it?
The only thing I know for certain is "I am". Saying "I don't exist" is contradictory and illogical.
Only on the language level.
But look deeper; examine what is behind the labels we are using.
If the life, awareness, this what is - is labeled with „am“, what would be „I“ in this experience?

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tek
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Re: I want to stop this now!

Postby tek » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:01 pm

Hey, this is thinking, not looking at the experience:
Yes, for sure it is. I must use thinking to answer your question.
What is known for sure to be true?
What really exists is what exists even when you don't think about it, when you stop believe in it. Does „I“ belong to this category?
"I am" is known to be true. Now, I don't mean the thought "I am", but the sense "I am". But ofcourse it is not known to be true, but rather the knower. I have also concluded a long time ago that there is no thinker, but rather thoughts arising and subsiding. I have no control over them.
As to what exists when there is no thoughts... well, it can't really be answered with thought, can it? Something exist, I can say, but I cannot say what it is without using thought. And if I do, it is not that.
Close your eyes and try to locate “I”.
Where is it?
It can't be located.
If the life, awareness, this what is - is labeled with „am“, what would be „I“ in this experience?
I'm not really sure what you mean by this? Are you saying that "am" is and "I" is not?

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Eloratea
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Re: I want to stop this now!

Postby Eloratea » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:23 pm

I must use thinking to answer your question.
But you can also go beyond and look at the thinking process.
"I am" is known to be true. Now, I don't mean the thought "I am", but the sense "I am".
So, there is a sense of aliveness labeled as „I am“, isn't that true? Pure sensation plus thought label.
I have also concluded a long time ago that there is no thinker, but rather thoughts arising and subsiding. I have no control over them.
Great!
As to what exists when there is no thoughts... well, it can't really be answered with thought, can it? Something exist, I can say, but I cannot say what it is without using thought. And if I do, it is not that.
This feeling of aliveness, awareness in which everything unfolds, including the thoughts?
Is it personal does it belong to anyone?
Eloratea wrote:Close your eyes and try to locate “I”.
Where is it?
It can't be located.
Does it mean that it doesn’t exist?
Eloratea wrote:If the life, awareness, this what is - is labeled with „am“, what would be „I“ in this experience?
I'm not really sure what you mean by this? Are you saying that "am" is and "I" is not?
I want you to look behind the labels. If there is something real behind.
This is experimental looking for the truth and examination of unexamined assumptions.

Best,
El

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tek
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Re: I want to stop this now!

Postby tek » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:38 pm

But you can also go beyond and look at the thinking process.
Yes, of course. Thoughts are known.
So, there is a sense of aliveness labeled as „I am“, isn't that true? Pure sensation plus thought label.
Yes, absolutely. Though I wouldn't even say that it's a sensation, since sensations are also known. This aliveness is not known in that way. It just is, and it is certain.
This feeling of aliveness, awareness in which everything unfolds, including the thoughts?
Is it personal does it belong to anyone?
It IS me. Objects can belong to me or someone else, but IT is not an object. IT is who I am. As a side note, I'm not really sure that this aliveness is in this body, or if this body and everything else is in this aliveness.
Does it mean that it doesn’t exist?
No, it just means that it is not in time and space.

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tek
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Re: I want to stop this now!

Postby tek » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:04 pm

No, it just means that it is not in time and space.
Maybe that was a bit of an assumption. It's more like, it doesn't appear as an appearance, and therefore it cannot be known in that way.

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Re: I want to stop this now!

Postby Eloratea » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:41 pm

Objects can belong to me or someone else
What makes object belong to anyone? Isn't that also just a labeling? There are objects and bodies and thoughts that label what is going on. Sometimes it is necessary for the everyday functioning; sometimes it distorts perception of reality.
IT is who I am.
How about: It is what is. Without necessarily labeling feeling of aliveness with I.
As a side note, I'm not really sure that this aliveness is in this body, or if this body and everything else is in this aliveness.
Sit still for a moment; Close your eyes (and open your mind :) - can you feel clearly the border of the body? Or it is rather very vague? Hear the sounds, feel the smells. Than open your eyes and look around at the objects, table, monitor, window, hands…is there you in that? Or it is just a life experience happening? With many processes going on (breathing, seeing, thinking…) like on the computer…with no entity behind.
Eloratea wrote: Does it mean that it doesn’t exist?
No, it just means that it is not in time and space.
Yes, it was a bit of an assumption :)
There is one point beyond time and space - it is now. And it is the only point where life happens. If something can’t be found now in this living moment, it is just a thought, belief. “I” is one of them and it is pretty limiting…drop it and see what happens.

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tek
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Re: I want to stop this now!

Postby tek » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:15 pm

What makes object belong to anyone? Isn't that also just a labeling? There are objects and bodies and thoughts that label what is going on. Sometimes it is necessary for the everyday functioning; sometimes it distorts perception of reality.
Very well. I do get that.
How about: It is what is. Without necessarily labeling feeling of aliveness with I.
I can go with "It is what is". No problem.
Sit still for a moment; Close your eyes (and open your mind :) - can you feel clearly the border of the body? Or it is rather very vague?
Actually, what I find, and this is not the first time I see this, is that there is no border between that aliveness and experiences.
Hear the sounds, feel the smells. Than open your eyes and look around at the objects, table, monitor, window, hands…is there you in that? Or it is just a life experience happening? With many processes going on (breathing, seeing, thinking…) like on the computer…with no entity behind.
The aliveness is there, and experiences are there. The experiences seem to be appearing to that aliveness, but as I mentioned before, when searched for there is no border between that aliveness and the experiences.
There is one point beyond time and space - it is now. And it is the only point where life happens. If something can’t be found now in this living moment, it is just a thought, belief. “I” is one of them and it is pretty limiting…drop it and see what happens.
Yes, it is pretty clear that there is only now, and that past and future are only thought images. You say to drop the belief of "I" and see what happens. I don't know how to do that.

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Eloratea
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Re: I want to stop this now!

Postby Eloratea » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:10 pm

The aliveness is there, and experiences are there. The experiences seem to be appearing to that aliveness, but as I mentioned before, when searched for there is no border between that aliveness and the experiences.
There is no border in reality! No gap between „you“and life. It is only made by thoughts. Actually It is unity. One experience here and now.
Yes, it is pretty clear that there is only now, and that past and future are only thought images.
Yes, past and future doesn’t exist without thoughts. Like “I”. They are just thoughts, imagination.
But now is, with or without thoughts. That is where we question reality.
You say to drop the belief of "I" and see what happens. I don't know how to do that.
We are just about doing this.
If you, for example, think there is someone hiding in the closet and you open it and see there is none, you don't believe it anymore. You go peacefully knowing that no one is there.
Or when you once realize that batman, santa claus or any other imaginary character is just imagined, you can’t believe it anymore to be real.
Once you clearly see that something is just imagination, belief in it is dropped. And no one is doing the dropping. :)

Now, what prevents seeing this?
Is there anything missing in this moment?

Stay well

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tek
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Re: I want to stop this now!

Postby tek » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:12 pm

Now, what prevents seeing this?
I don't know. I'm quite clear sighted, and ain't easily fooled. And yet, what prevents me from liberation eludes me. I just want to be content with whatever is. But that never seems to be the case for very long, no matter what great experiences is experienced. They always leave me empty. Never full.
Is there anything missing in this moment?
Yes. But what this something is I cannot say. It's like an itch that can't be located.

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Eloratea
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Re: I want to stop this now!

Postby Eloratea » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:49 pm

I just want to be content with whatever is. But that never seems to be the case for very long, no matter what great experiences is experienced. They always leave me empty. Never full.
It is inevitable and will stay so as long as there is an unexamined assumption of existence of a separate self, of someone having the experience.
Is there anything missing in this moment?
Yes. But what this something is I cannot say. It's like an itch that can't be located.
Stay with it. Is it a thought, or a feeling, sensation that can be felt in the body; where? Try to describe it. Only way out of it is through it. Which means being with whatever comes up in the moment.
Just look into whatever arises in the actual experience.

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tek
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Re: I want to stop this now!

Postby tek » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:05 pm

Stay with it. Is it a thought, or a feeling, sensation that can be felt in the body; where? Try to describe it.
It's a sensation deep in my chest. A longing for peace. A missing piece of the puzzle. It's agony, this longing. It like an ache that never goes away.

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Eloratea
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Re: I want to stop this now!

Postby Eloratea » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:14 pm

Invite it to come in a full force and FEEL it. That’s the "gatekeeper".


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