Scared right now

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
AttheGate
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:12 am

Scared right now

Postby AttheGate » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:16 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I’ve had many experiences throughout my life that have shown me such things as: Essence is Love and everything is That;
Neither I nor anthing else is a separate entity; silence is pervasive; and more. However, even though it is diminishing, I live daily with a sense of a separate self.

What are you looking for at LU?
I’m 72, have a rare incurable cancer (not present on scans right now), have had two major surgeries on spinal cord/vertebrae, and am facing (not imminent) more surgery.
I had assumed the intense anxiety I’ve had lately was due to my fear of more pain and disability. However, I now think the body/ mind is freaking out as the truth that there is no separate self is revealed more often.
Do others have anxiety/fear ? I try watching and being present but, don’t really know how to work with it.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I’ve found the question “What’s aware of being aware” very helpful in getting on touch with no self. Prior to listening to Lisa Kahale on youtube and finding this site I hadn’t heard of guidance in doing inquiry individually. I’m passionate about living without a self and terrified. I want help using everything that is coming up inside to walk through the gateless gate. And support if/when I do..
An example of one way I’m framing things now:
The physical pain I’ve had has shown me how thought creates suffering. I sense the brutal pain of the surgeries, my chronic physical pain and facing more pain and disability are triggering beliefs etc. that keep me from surrendering. If I don’t keep my personal self and further let go of the apparent Judith I’ll be abondonded and alone
when again Im incapacitated, in terrible pain, dying.
I’ve worked with this a bit. But, there are more layers.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been sought for much of my life. Each practice has come to me and I’ve committed to each (sometimes kicking and screaming) for minimally 6 six years. Sufi practice, shamanism, Quaker meeting, mystical Judaism, Vipassana (the foundation for my ability to notice in the moment)

I read a couple of books by Byron Katie around 15 years ago and found them helpful cutting through beliefs.
In recent years Adyashanti, Peter Brown and Mooji have been my teachers.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 4114
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Scared right now

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:48 pm

Hi Judith,

Hello, and thank you for your introduction.
Do others have anxiety/fear ? I try watching and being present but, don’t really know how to work with it.

Sure. It varies a great deal. To the extent we are identified with a persona, then the slightest sense that this might not be there, can - understandably - be pretty scary. Who will I be then? etc.

I'm a guide here, and if you'd like, we can walk along together to explore - see what there is to see. :)

With warmest wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
AttheGate
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:12 am

Re: Scared right now

Postby AttheGate » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:55 pm

I’m grateful for you guidance, John.
How does this work?

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 4114
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Scared right now

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:46 pm

Hi
I’m grateful for you guidance, John.
How does this work?

We explore together. In a nutshell, guiding is asking questions, giving pointers to which you respond, and inquire into, to get 'underneath' the assumptions that generally forms our world view.

The primary topic of attention is the nature of this 'personal self' you feel yourself to be.

There are no guarantees in this kind of inquiry, nor would we seek them. We approach it without conditions, with deep curiosity and a willingness to face and challenge our assumptions directly. It's also good to do so with lightness, rather than a serious approach.

Not sure if that was the question you asked. :)

Feel free to ask any questions you may have.

With warmest wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
AttheGate
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:12 am

Re: Scared right now

Postby AttheGate » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:59 pm

Get it.
Just read a sample of Ilona’s book, Gateless Gatecrashers.

Had a tough nit of intense anxiety. Now I feel nauseated. Trying to be with it. Keeps getting stronger. I want to run away and know there’s no place to go. Want to jump and connect with the nothing behind this. It’s as though I’m creating this drama yet know that’s not true. Yet want out of it now. Yet know that’s how I’m “creating” it. Yet........

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 4114
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Scared right now

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:09 pm

Had a tough nit of intense anxiety. Now I feel nauseated. Trying to be with it. Keeps getting stronger. I want to run away and know there’s no place to go. Want to jump and connect with the nothing behind this. It’s as though I’m creating this drama yet know that’s not true. Yet want out of it now. Yet know that’s how I’m “creating” it. Yet........

Ok, share with me, who is the one in the anxiety story?

With kind thanks,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
AttheGate
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:12 am

Re: Scared right now

Postby AttheGate » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:22 pm

No one there. Intensity. Intensity. Seeing how my mind is trying to get rid of it. Truggling just being with it. Don’t know how to do that. Haha. Another attempt to trick it. Get it to go away.

No one in the anxiety story yet it feels like there’s a me doing all this “ sneaky” stuff to feel better.

User avatar
AttheGate
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:12 am

Re: Scared right now

Postby AttheGate » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:35 pm

Interesting how crisp and clear everything looks. And quiet. Expierenced this before. Then it gets covered over.
This clarity and calm makes the anxiety more tolerable. Anxiety still there.
All there at the same time.

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 4114
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Scared right now

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:42 pm

No one there. Intensity. Intensity. Seeing how my mind is trying to get rid of it. Truggling just being with it. Don’t know how to do that. Haha. Another attempt to trick it. Get it to go away.

No one in the anxiety story yet it feels like there’s a me doing all this “ sneaky” stuff to feel better.

No one in the anxiety story? Presumably the story is about you?
If it wasn't about you, it wouldn't bother you.

If the anxiety story was about a complete stranger, you wouldn't give it the time of day.

Imagine it is about a complete stranger.
Go through a section of it, seeing it as being about a complete and utter stranger.
Notice what's different.

Sit with this a bit. Share any discoveries.

Thanks,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
AttheGate
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:12 am

Re: Scared right now

Postby AttheGate » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:58 pm

Interesting. After I initially tried it the feelings bacame much less intense. Bodily sensations didn’t matter. Smiled at the “joke”. Things looked brighter, still and less dimensional.

I was nervous about a medical appointment later in the day. Sensations and thoughts were there. But, it was much less easy to
about what would happen.

Concerned about what you’d think of my responses. Seen as the thoughts of an utter stranger- - compassion for that person,
then “who cares”, gone.

Yesterday I got a bit obsessed with checking “Am I still seeing what’s coming up through the lense of an utter stranger” ?
Still grabbing that “ magic bullet” a bit right now. Though lightly.

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 4114
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Scared right now

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:06 pm

Interesting. After I initially tried it the feelings bacame much less intense. Bodily sensations didn’t matter. Smiled at the “joke”. Things looked brighter, still and less dimensional.

I was nervous about a medical appointment later in the day. Sensations and thoughts were there. But, it was much less easy to
about what would happen.

Concerned about what you’d think of my responses. Seen as the thoughts of an utter stranger- - compassion for that person,
then “who cares”, gone.

Yesterday I got a bit obsessed with checking “Am I still seeing what’s coming up through the lense of an utter stranger” ?
Still grabbing that “ magic bullet” a bit right now. Though lightly.
Thanks for exploring. Now, what's the magic bullet for specifically?

With warm wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
AttheGate
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:12 am

Re: Scared right now

Postby AttheGate » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:40 pm

It was freeing to experience the intense anxiety fully AND as though it were happening to an utter stranger. So mind was urging me to see everything this way. Haha. Tricky mind

I will limit “utter stranger” experiencing to times when thought or feeling is so intense I’m engulfed. Does that sound useful.
So tricky how the penetrating technique —-utter stranger— was co opted by mind to control.
Haha And that too is just a thought floating through.

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 4114
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Scared right now

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:56 pm

It was freeing to experience the intense anxiety fully AND as though it were happening to an utter stranger. So mind was urging me to see everything this way. Haha. Tricky mind

Ah, I see. Cunning. :)

I will limit “utter stranger” experiencing to times when thought or feeling is so intense I’m engulfed. Does that sound useful.

It does. If you find it useful, then why not use it.

So tricky how the penetrating technique —-utter stranger— was co opted by mind to control.
Haha And that too is just a thought floating through.

It's good to have the experience of seeing that what makes these stories so effective and powerful is the fact that the leading actor in the story is taken to be yours truly.

So, when we play, and make it an utter stranger, the story loses its power, as you experienced.
Now you have an easy method, you can use any time, to take the sting out of the story.

Ok, getting back to the 'personal self'.

If there wasn't a 'personal self' to which we identified, then the leading character in the story would not be you.
This would make the story, not a story about you, but a story about a character, that for years you had thought was you.

Do you have a voice in the head that tells these stories?

Is this voice in the head, your voice?

Is the voice in the head the same as the voice that speaks?
What seems to be the case?

Explore, and share any discoveries, or none.

Warm wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

User avatar
AttheGate
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:12 am

Re: Scared right now

Postby AttheGate » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:02 pm

The voice that speaks comes and goes. It can be experienced as just sound coming and going. Seems to be under my control. Yet, in terms of words, more I see how often what is speaking is just mouthing conditioned responses. Bullsh...
The voice in the head also conditioned. It seems relentless (at times) and uninvited. Not in my control.

. Right now the the head voice that’s seeing the conditioning wants control. Anger. Hating not being in control of the conditioning that wants control.

Haha. Seeing/reading this- - what a joke.

Before I began writing I saw how much I want to be your good student. Your best student. If I’m not, you’ll get fed up and right now don’t want you to leave me.
Rapidly seeing the crap.
And chuckling.

And, if all this conditioned goodness crumbles, actually disappears...... I’ll be an inert blob. Totally alone. Terror

And, this second, a momentary breath o freedom.

Thank you.

User avatar
s-p-a-c-e
Posts: 4114
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Scared right now

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:36 pm

The voice in the head also conditioned. It seems relentless (at times) and uninvited. Not in my control.

As you say, it comes and rattles on.
Whether you invited it or not, is a moot point.
It's coming anyway. I have relatives like that. :)

Question: What authority does it have?

Why would you give authority to something you have no control over?


Next time a voice in the head rattles on, withdraw its authority to have any say on your life. None.
See what happens.

Before I began writing I saw how much I want to be your good student. Your best student. If I’m not, you’ll get fed up and right now don’t want you to leave me.
Rapidly seeing the crap.
And chuckling.

Don't worry about me, I'm no teacher, just a bloke ruled by two cats. It's a pleasure to talk with you.
And, if all this conditioned goodness crumbles, actually disappears...... I’ll be an inert blob. Totally alone. Terror

That's a good thing to worry about, because we get very attached to our facade.
Who will you be without the facade of you?
Perhaps you will simply be you, not trying to be someone else?

Sit with that possibility awhile. Imagine that.
And, this second, a momentary breath o freedom.

A moment can make a big difference.

Thank you.
It's a pleasure.

Don't know where you are in the world, but enjoy your Friday. :)

Warm wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest