Request for a guide

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Smudgestix
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Request for a guide

Postby Smudgestix » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:41 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
There is no 'I'. There is life just flowing and being. There is no owner of body or mind. There are senses like touch,taste, seeing, smelling, tasting that the body experiences but no doer of any of these things.

What are you looking for at LU?
I started by looking for an improvement in my life and was introduced to LU by a friend. After reading the book and completing some of the exercises the realisation of all that was previously believed was under serious question so I guess I want that realisation of being one with the universe

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To be guided through self inquiry and to let go of all that I've known to be true and believed has happened and is going to happen. To be encouraged to search and look deep to make the experience of non duality a reality.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've had little spiritual practice. I'm not a believer in any god. I've read the liberation unleashed book written by Ilona Ciunaite and completed various exercises from the book. I've watched numerous things on you tube and have been drawn to LU

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

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forgetmenot
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Re: Request for a guide

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:44 am

Hi Smudgestix or should that be sage? :)

My name is Kay, and I am happy to guide you. Here at LU we are described as guides and not teachers, as my role is to point the way for you to seeing through the inherent self, but you have to realise it for yourself. This is an experiential based guiding and is not a discussion. Please follow the links, and read the information below. When responding; a confirmation that you have done this would be appreciated, as well as a confirmation that the disclaimer has been read.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now. Here is the link.
http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Please read “what LU is not” as this will help you with expectations of what seeing through the illusory self will bring or not bring.

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

To keep the thread legible and easy to follow, please learn to use the quote function. When replying to questions, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/nat ... ?f=4&t=660

Some housekeeping guidelines:-
Post at least once a day or every second day. If you cannot post, or need more time, let me know. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry

Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.

This exploration is based on questions and exercises. I ask questions as a means of pointing, but the questions aren’t about finding something unknown. The questions refer to what is already actually known. And what is already known? Sound, smell, taste, thought, sensation and colour. So, questions are not answered through thinking/thoughts (theories) but by LOOKING. The key is that you really have to LOOK. Why? Because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self.

What is LOOKING? ‘LOOKING’ is just plain looking at what is here right now. It is moving from the conceptual to actual experience (AE). The term “Actual Experience” (AE) is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ without the thought stories. So, actual experience (AE) is image/colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought, at face value. What thought says ie, the content of thought is NOT experience. This is evidenced by the fact that you cannot taste the word 'sweet'. So, when looking at actual experience (AE), you are looking at raw experience WITHOUT what thought says ABOUT the raw experience.

To begin with, I would just like to know what your expectations are from having this exploration. So, in your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers about what expectations you have) could you please answer the 5 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?
What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?


Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have in blue text, and to answer them individually as well please...and remember to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Smudgestix
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Re: Request for a guide

Postby Smudgestix » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:32 pm

How will life change?
Hi Kay I'd just like to thank you for becoming my guide. I have no great expectation that my life will change. I would like to just live in the now and not fantasise about a life or think of ifs buts or maybes of the past.

How will you change?
As above really, no expectation of any earth shattering changes, just a clearer seeing, more content living.
What will be different?
Not sure, again I don't want to 'dream' about how things will differ but how I perceive the world and everything in it will differ.
What is missing?
No huge feeling of anything missing. I was looking for a new direction of life and was introduced to LU and was drawn to it.
What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?
I would like to truly achieve the realisation of non duality and live without self and just be.

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Re: Request for a guide

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:03 am

Hi Smudge,

The initial 5 questions were about both you and I becoming aware of expectations. . Expectations are attachments to outcomes, and if desired outcomes aren’t experienced then the realisation is overlooked, as the bells and whistles wanted didn’t eventuate. Realising ‘no self’ can be a very subtle shift and does not come with trumpeting angels and never ending feelings of bliss or sainthood!  Fear, anger, anxiety, frustration, doubt and resistance will appear as we move through this exploration. Please let me know when they do, so that we can look at them together.
How will life change?
Hi Kay I'd just like to thank you for becoming my guide. I have no great expectation that my life will change. I would like to just live in the now and not fantasise about a life or think of ifs buts or maybes of the past.
You’re welcome! It is impossible not to be in the now, everything only ever happens now. Where else could you possibly be if not in the now?! Life is just lifing and always has, there has never been a ‘you’ who is living or controlling life, including the thoughts that you think you think!
How will you change?
As above really, no expectation of any earth shattering changes, just a clearer seeing, more content living.
That is good as there is no you to change! There has never been a ‘you’! Paradoxically what changes is perception about a ‘you’ and about life. Just like when you realised that Santa was a story. The story about Santa still appeared, Xmas still continued to come around once a year with a Santa on each street corner, gifts were still exchanged and overeating and drinking still happens, however the perception of Santa, of who he is and what he does changed.
What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?
I would like to truly achieve the realisation of non duality and live without self and just be.
There already is ‘living without a self’. An illusion is just that…an illusion! What would it feel like not to be a person is how it feels right now! There is no separate self and never has been. Seeing through the illusion of “I” doesn’t mean you will lose the “I” and with it your whole identity. The “I” doesn’t exist, not even now as you are reading these lines.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Smudgestix
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Re: Request for a guide

Postby Smudgestix » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:06 am

Thanks for the reply Kay. I was expecting further questions or some task to complete? Where do we go from here?

Love
Linda

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forgetmenot
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Re: Request for a guide

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:14 am

Hi Linda,

I was waiting to see if you had any questions etc to what I had written or if fear, anger or resistance etc appeared when you were reading it.

Okay, so we begin with becoming aware of actual experience (AE) as it is the bases of our exploration.

If you have a ‘real’ apple then you can use that for this exercise.


Image

Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?


While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?

Throughout our exploration, what is highlighted in blue text is what I would like you to answer please. Don't forget to use the quote function.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Smudgestix
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Re: Request for a guide

Postby Smudgestix » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:27 pm

Hi Kay,
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly this morning.
I was driving to work this morning watching the lines on the road and the different colours of the car headlights coming towards me and then came a thought of 'if only I realised no I before, how different would life have been? Would it have been any different?' I'd had these thoughts before over the past couple of weeks. I felt a sense of frustration and sadness that I'd lived an illusion and still am. Confused about why we are conditioned in this way. Then there were more thoughts of life would not be different, what's happened in life has happened and that the future will be better. These are just fleeting thoughts and the feelings come up and go again.
I'll answer your questions shortly I just wanted to mention this first.

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Re: Request for a guide

Postby Smudgestix » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:19 pm

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
There is the colour red and a circular shape that thought will say is apple. But when looking without labelling then no there is no 'apple'.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
'Apple' as a label/thought cannot be found in actual experience, but the colour can be found in actual experience. It is thought that labels it red and gives it a shape.
However, is an apple actually known?
An apple is not actually known. The colour, shape, sensation, taste and smell are all that is known. It is thought about the apple that is known

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Re: Request for a guide

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:33 pm

Hey Linda,
Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
There is the colour red and a circular shape that thought will say is apple. But when looking without labelling then no there is no 'apple'.
Shapes are just different patterns of colour. Without thought how would it be known that something was a particular shape?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
'Apple' as a label/thought cannot be found in actual experience, but the colour can be found in actual experience. It is thought that labels it red and gives it a shape.
Hmmm…if the label ‘apple’ and thoughts about an ‘apple’ cannot be found, then how do you know that what is appearing is an ‘apple’?

Thoughts/labels are known, how can they not be? You are aware of them, are you not? Just as you are aware of sound, colour, smell, taste and sensation.

Thoughts are actual experience (AE) but the content of thought is only further thought and does contain any experience in and of itself. If thought contained experience, then when the thought ‘sweet’ appeared it would taste sweet.
However, is an apple actually known?
An apple is not actually known. The colour, shape, sensation, taste and smell are all that is known. It is thought about the apple that is known.
Yes, an apple is not actual experience (not known). What is appearing/known is colour, sensation, taste, smell, sound and thought, but what thought is pointing to is not AE (not known).


Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.


Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Request for a guide

Postby Smudgestix » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:32 pm

Shapes are just different patterns of colour. Without thought how would it be known that something was a particular shape?
Without thought different shapes would not be known. It is thought that provides the divide between colour and then another thought of shape which it will then labels.

Hmmm…if the label ‘apple’ and thoughts about an ‘apple’ cannot be found, then how do you know that what is appearing is an ‘apple’?
Yes-thoughts and label of apple can be found. Thought is AE

Thoughts/labels are known, how can they not be? You are aware of them, are you not? Just as you are aware of sound, colour, smell, taste and sensation.
The label 'apple' is AE of thought as is the colour red. Thought of 'apple' can be found but 'apple' cannot.
AE is thought as is the colour, further thought says it is red and is an apple but this is not AE.
Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go

Wake up alarm=sound
Feel warm under my duvet, but cold as I get out of bed = sensation
Holding warm cup of tea=sensation
Drinking cup of tea=taste
Sitting in the car=sensation
Sat in my chair at work=sensation
Hearing my fingers tapping on my keyboard=sound
Watching the letters appear on the computer screen=image/ colour
Listening to telephones ringing= Sound
Wanting someone to hurry up and answer the phone=thought
Listening to colleagues talking=sound
Holding a cigarette=sensation
Smoking a cigarette=taste
Relief as a busy work day ends=thought.

Hi Kay, Hope you are well :) I found this part difficult today. I kept getting carried away with one thought after another especially when interacting with colleagues in work. I felt like 'day dreams' took over and I allowed one thought to chase another. I felt frustrated that my mind was getting carried away. Toing and froing between thoughts of 'I'm just not getting this' and 'I must be missing something' self doubt! and then a thought of there is no 'I' and just listening, seeing, touching, tasting.

Love Linda

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Re: Request for a guide

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:34 am

Hi Linda,
I found this part difficult today. I kept getting carried away with one thought after another especially when interacting with colleagues in work. I felt like 'day dreams' took over and I allowed one thought to chase another. I felt frustrated that my mind was getting carried away. Toing and froing between thoughts of 'I'm just not getting this' and 'I must be missing something' self doubt! and then a thought of there is no 'I' and just listening, seeing, touching, tasting.
To me, you have done a wonderful job of breaking down activities into AE and you have a clear understanding of what AE is. Nice! Keep doing this for a few more days, so that it really becomes clear.

You mentioned that you found the exercise difficult because thoughts SEEMED to take over and you were more aware of thoughts. Let's do a little exercise on seeing if you can control what you are aware of.

Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then:
Look on your right.
Then look on your left.
Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.

Okay, so when you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).
When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).
And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie black space).

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or black space if you close your eyes. The question is, can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?

Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?

Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the blank sky?

Can you turn off seeing?

Last question, in this whole exercise, what did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?


Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Request for a guide

Postby Smudgestix » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:24 pm

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or black space if you close your eyes. The question is, can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?
No seeing cannot be turned off.
If I turn my head to the right I see image/colour of what thought labels wall.
Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
Same again.Different images and colour are seen but seeing is just happening.
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the blank sky!
No, can't not see the black space.
Can you turn off seeing?
No, seeing can't be turned off. It is always there.
When looking in either direction with eyes open, colours and images are seen. With eyes closed black space is seen.
Last question, in this whole exercise, what did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?
There is no choice, 'I' do not choose to see these colours/images. Colours and images are just seen. Thought will say the images/colours are trees, cars, buildings etc.
In different surroundings it is the same experience, there is no choice in what is seen it is just there.
No, seeing is not switched off. It is always there, it's just the images and colour that change.
In this exercise a self did not choose what was seen.There was a choice of where to go for lunch? Wasn't sure about this at first. How was this choice made without any self? The AE of 'lunch' was seeing, tasting, smell, sensation.

No self made this choice it was just thought.

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Re: Request for a guide

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:49 am

Hi Linda,
Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
Same again.Different images and colour are seen but seeing is just happening.
Colour and image are one and the same. Just like the apple, without thought how is it known that the colour appearing is an apple?
Without thought, how is it known that colour is appearing as different images?
Can you turn off seeing?
No, seeing can't be turned off. It is always there.
Yes, so colour is seeing, they are one and the same!
When looking in either direction with eyes open, colours and images are seen. With eyes closed black space is seen.
Darkness/blackness is just a colour, like any other, no different from white or light. Thought labels darkness/blackness as the absence of some 'thing' but it is no less known than light/white is.
Empty space is no different to solid matter; it is still a some 'thing', not a lack of some 'thing'. So when the eyes are closed, what is seen is undefined, it is untrue to say that nothing is seen, there is still some ‘thing’ ie darkness/blackness.

Last question, in this whole exercise, what did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?
There is no choice, 'I' do not choose to see these colours/images. Colours and images are just seen. Thought will say the images/colours are trees, cars, buildings etc.
In different surroundings it is the same experience, there is no choice in what is seen it is just there.
Yes, lovely! You can’t make something appear or disappear. What appears simply appears and if something isn't there, then is it really known?


In this exercise a self did not choose what was seen.There was a choice of where to go for lunch? Wasn't sure about this at first. How was this choice made without any self? The AE of 'lunch' was seeing, tasting, smell, sensation.

No self made this choice it was just thought.
Nice LOOKING, Linda! Yes, choice itself is just a thought! And it is only an appearing thought that said “I chose to go to such and such for lunch”. Just like having no choice in what you are aware of, do you have a choice in what thoughts appear? Let’s have a look at that next.

So did this exercise clear up the thoughts about the AE exercise being difficult because thoughts seemed to take over? Could you choose not to be aware of thoughts more son than colour, for example, or sound?

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear, without you doing anything at all.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Where are they coming from and going to?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you push away any thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts? Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?
Can you choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to control any thoughts? Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?


Look carefully when doing this exercise and do it several times if necessary. Please answer each question individually.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Smudgestix
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Re: Request for a guide

Postby Smudgestix » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:03 am

Hi Kay

Thanks for your response.
I'm out tonight with friends straight from work. I'll respond later if it's not to late or if it is late I'll get back to you tomorrow.

Thanks again
Love
Linda

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Re: Request for a guide

Postby Smudgestix » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:11 am

So did this exercise clear up the thoughts about the AE exercise being difficult because thoughts seemed to take over? Could you choose not to be aware of thoughts more son than colour, for example, or sound?
Yes, thanks Kay, it has made it clearer. No 'I' to choose just thought. Awareness of thought just happens same as seeing colour and hearing sound.
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Spent today watching thought. 'i' do not do anything to make a thought appear.
Driving to work, see a police car on the road, then a thought of watch the speed, then another thought of will the car park be full, then another thought straight after saying should have left earlier then 'I' wouldn't be feeling anxious about parking and being late for work.
The feeling anxious was just a thought.
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
No 'i' couldn't, thought appears but 'I' cannot influence it, it's just another thought that appears.
A song on the radio, a thought of this was heard in the past, further thought and image of dancing as a teenager out with friends, this thought brought a smile.Thoughts of what those friends were doing now, wonder how they are.
Thoughts are just happening. 'I' did not do anything to make them appear.
The thought of being out with friends later, imagining the night, thought creating images of a fun night ahead but 'i' couldn't stop them or change the thought, it just happened.

Where are they coming from and going to
Cannot find where thought appears from or where thought goes.
Can you predict your next thought?

No couldn't predict a thought this just lead to another thought of trying to push the thought away and thought created another thought. Even typing this a random thought of what to eat for lunch appeared.
Can you push away any thought?
Again, no couldnt push it away, same as before another thought would appear.
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts? Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?
Thoughts just happen I can't predict them or choose if they are positive or negative. Another thought appears to prevent a negative thought or feeling but sometimes the thought carries that feeling of negativity on, bringing feelings of sadness or anger.The same with positive thoughts but the feelings are different, feelings of happiness, peace, laughter.
Thoughts are just coming and going. Couldn't find where from or where they were going to. If I tried to find this place it just lead to more thoughts.
Can you choose not to have painful or negative thoughts
No thoughts just appear,'I' can't choose. The choice is thought.
Can you pick and choose any kind if thought?


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