Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

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Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:40 am

Hi Mark, here is your thread. So, let's begin from the beginning....okay!

To keep the thread legible and easy to follow, please learn to use the quote function. When replying to questions, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/nat ... ?f=4&t=660

Some housekeeping guidelines:-
Post at least once a day or every second day. If you cannot post, or need more time, let me know. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry

Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.

This exploration is based on questions and exercises. I ask questions as a means of pointing, but the questions aren’t about finding something unknown. The questions refer to what is already actually known. And what is already known? Sound, smell, taste, thought, sensation and colour. So, questions are not answered through thinking/thoughts (theories) but by LOOKING. The key is that you really have to LOOK. Why? Because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self.

What is LOOKING? ‘LOOKING’ is just plain looking at what is here right now. It is moving from the conceptual to actual experience (AE). The term “Actual Experience” (AE) is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ without the thought stories. So, actual experience (AE) is image/colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought, at face value. What thought says ie, the content of thought is NOT experience. This is evidenced by the fact that you cannot taste the word 'sweet'. So, when looking at actual experience (AE), you are looking at raw experience WITHOUT what thought says ABOUT the raw experience.

To begin with, I would just like to know what your expectations are from having this exploration. So, in your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers about what expectations you have) could you please answer the 5 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?
What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?


Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have in blue text, and to answer them individually as well please...and remember to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

Postby Funkybuddha » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:21 am

Hi Kay, thanks for doing this, here are my answers to your questions.
How will life change?
I have expectations that life will change by not being so anxious and identifying with this mind.
How will you change?
I will change as my experience of dis identifying with thoughts drops away
What will be different?
I will no longer believe the thoughts and feelings I experience as being mine.
What is missing?
A understanding of how this mind/body works and a chance to experience life in peace.
What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?
The chance to be free of feelings of anxiety, the behaviour of stuttering I have had since my teens. If I see there is no me then how can there be an I that stutters.
Hope this helps
Love Mark

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Re: Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:04 am

Hey Mark,
How will life change?
I have expectations that life will change by not being so anxious and identifying with this mind.
Life is not anxious and does not suffer from anxiety, nor does life have a mind! Life is simply lifing and is not happening to anyone or anything. Thinking that life is happening ‘to’ or ‘through’ anyone or anything assumes that something is outside of life, and that is impossible.
How will you change?
I will change as my experience of dis identifying with thoughts drops away
There has never been a separate self. There was not one yesterday and there is not one now who is reading this and there will not be one tomorrow and there isn’t anyone/anything that is identifying with thoughts. There is no hierarchy of thought ie one thought is no more significant than another. They are an appearance that come and go, just as does sound, smell, taste and sensations.

Actual experience is everything, except the "content" of thought, because thought, in and of itself does not contain any experience.

What will be different?
I will no longer believe the thoughts and feelings I experience as being mine.
A belief is a thought, just a plain old thought that is supported only by other thoughts, and thoughts know nothing! There is no one/no thing that can or is believing in thoughts. Thought does not create sensation (ie feelings) as there is no cause and effect.
What is missing?
A understanding of how this mind/body works and a chance to experience life in peace.
I guide to a structure and you will see as we move through different areas to how the idea of a separate self is maintained. My style of guiding is to deconstruct the construct that maintains the illusion.
What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?
The chance to be free of feelings of anxiety, the behaviour of stuttering I have had since my teens. If I see there is no me then how can there be an I that stutters.
Anxiety may continue to appear, it is an appearance that appears but is happening to no one/no thing! However, anxiety is seen for what it actually is and not what appearing thoughts says it is. Realising there is no self is not about improving a self that does not exist in any shape or form! What changes is perception about what is appearing, but it does not necessarily change what does or does not appear.

There is no "I" that stutters. The story about a person stuttering is appearing, but the actual experience (AE) of stuttering is thought and not the AE of a person stuttering. This will become clearer as we move through the exploration. There is no one controlling whether or not stuttering appears or not, but stuttering is not happening to anyone.

This exploration is just a beginning and not an ending. There will still be beliefs and patterns that are rooted in the idea of being a separate self that will need clearing as not everything gets rewritten in one big hit. The core belief of being a separate self is seen through, however, like a rug that is beginning to unravel, there are still many knots that need undoing. But if you know that the ‘conditioning’ is not something that you own, then it is easier to clear. Continuing to LOOK after the realisation is very much the key. And with the unravelling comes ‘emotions’, including anxiety.

If at any time throughout our exploration, or when you read my responses above, you find anger, fear, frustration, resentment, resistance, anxiety appearing, please let me know so that we can look at them together.

Okay, so let’s begin by becoming aware of actual experience (AE).

If you have a ‘real’ apple then you can use that for this exercise.


Image

Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?


While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?

Throughout our exploration, what is highlighted in blue text is what I would like you to answer please. Don't forget to use the quote function.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

Postby Funkybuddha » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:55 pm

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
There is colour of an object that the mind 'labels' apple. So yes there is an apple, albeit one that has been labelled by mind.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
I am not sure about how to answer this because ......
You say that 'Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something' then in the next sentence you say that thoughts are AE 'Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation' I'm confused
However, is an apple actually known?
I'm confused about this, the apple is being experienced as colour through seeing but it only is an apple if mind says so

I can see I am struggling with distinguishing between AE and what is not AE

Hope this helps
Love M

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Re: Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:24 pm

Hello Mark,

In my introductory post there was a description of what actual experience is and how to LOOK with AE.

What is LOOKING? ‘LOOKING’ is just plain looking at what is here right now. It is moving from the conceptual to actual experience (AE). The term “Actual Experience” (AE) is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ without the thought stories. So, actual experience (AE) is image/colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought, at face value. What thought says ie, the content of thought is NOT experience. This is evidenced by the fact that you cannot taste the word 'sweet'. So, when looking at actual experience (AE), you are looking at raw experience WITHOUT what thought says ABOUT the raw experience.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
There is colour of an object that the mind 'labels' apple. So yes there is an apple, albeit one that has been labelled by mind.
Without thought, how is it known that the colour is an object and is an object labelled ‘apple’?

Thought is AE because it is an appearance just like colour, smell, taste, sensation and sound. However thought either points to AE or it points to thoughts about AE or thoughts about thought.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
I am not sure about how to answer this because ......
You say that 'Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something' then in the next sentence you say that thoughts are AE 'Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation' I'm confused
Thoughts themselves are AE and the content of thought is further thought, however what they usually point to is a story about AE. The story (thoughts) about colour, taste, smell, sensation being an apple are thoughts about AE and are known, however, an apple is not known.

If thoughts were expressed via the tweeting of birds or an unknown language, how would you know what they meant? What meaning is given to thoughts are only just thoughts about thoughts.

To keep it simple at this stage, the thought ‘blue sky’. The label ‘blue’ points to AE of colour and AE of thought; the label ‘sky’ does not point to anything but to AE of thought. A ‘sky’ cannot be found ie is not known in AE.
Is this clear?

However, is an apple actually known?
I'm confused about this, the apple is being experienced as colour through seeing but it only is an apple if mind says so
No, an apple is not being experienced as colour. Colour is SEEMINGLY being experienced as an apple. If you ignore completely labels and thoughts about colour being and ‘apple’, what is actually appearing is AE of colour.

Image

What is a rose? Perhaps a nice red and green flower with a pleasant smell and some sharp thorns?

But LOOK again - all that is actually present are red and green, a nice smell and maybe an 'ouch' sensation. The rose itself is only a story.
Notice that all things that seem to exist are just like the rose. Just fictional stories about experience.

Beyond the story, can any of them be found to exist at all?

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

Postby Funkybuddha » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:39 am

Hi Kay, hope your well
Without thought, how is it known that the colour is an object and is an object labelled ‘apple’?
In AE it is not known as an 'apple' but only as colour and shape. It is mind that creates a narrative about the colour and labels the AE as apple.
To keep it simple at this stage, the thought ‘blue sky’. The label ‘blue’ points to AE of colour and AE of thought; the label ‘sky’ does not point to anything but to AE of thought. A ‘sky’ cannot be found ie is not known in AE.
Is this clear?
I think so yes. When I experience a blue sky all that is in AE is the colour blue and the thought 'Blue Sky' which is the mind labelling this experience. The AE is just the colour Blue.
Beyond the story, can any of them be found to exist at all?
No they don't exist as a flower, only as colour. The colour is being experienced in AE and the mind labels it red. But what about shape and size ? Are they not being experienced to ? The colour begins and ends at certain points.
Hope this helps
Love M

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Re: Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:50 am

Hey Mark,
Without thought, how is it known that the colour is an object and is an object labelled ‘apple’?
In AE it is not known as an 'apple' but only as colour and shape. It is mind that creates a narrative about the colour and labels the AE as apple.
It is thought that overlays AE with stories about AE, however there is no “mind”.
Shapes are nothing but different patterns of colour; without thought, how is it known, other than through thought, that something is a particular shape?
To keep it simple at this stage, the thought ‘blue sky’. The label ‘blue’ points to AE of colour and AE of thought; the label ‘sky’ does not point to anything but to AE of thought. A ‘sky’ cannot be found ie is not known in AE.
Is this clear?
I think so yes. When I experience a blue sky all that is in AE is the colour blue and the thought 'Blue Sky' which is the mind labelling this experience. The AE is just the colour Blue.
Yes. Great. It is important to clearly see what actual experience is and notice the thoughts that appear ABOUT actual experience.
Beyond the story, can any of them be found to exist at all?
No they don't exist as a flower, only as colour. The colour is being experienced in AE and the mind labels it red. But what about shape and size ? Are they not being experienced to ? The colour begins and ends at certain points.
Without thought, how is it known that something has a size? It just simply is, is it not?


Image

Take a look at this picture.
Putting thought aside, how is it known that there are many different colours?
Are there many different objects of varying colourS, or is there simply colour which thought labels as many different objects in many different colours?


Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

Postby Funkybuddha » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:02 pm

Hi Kay,
Shapes are nothing but different patterns of colour; without thought, how is it known, other than through thought, that something is a particular shape?
There are no shapes in AE, everything appears as different colours. As like looking at a flat screen, wherever I turn my head colours appear but have no 3D depth, they just begin and end where the next colour starts.
Without thought, how is it known that something has a size? It just simply is, is it not?
Without thought, there is no such thing as 'Size' !! Only a flat 2 dimensional image with different colours.
putting thought aside, how is it known that there are many different colours?
It is known that there are many different colours as each different colour begins where the next one ends.

Are there many different objects of varying colourS, or is there simply colour which thought labels as many different objects in many different colours?
In AE there are many different seams of colour, not of objects.
Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.
After spending the day at work I have tried to experience the seemingly external world through AE by ....

Seeing - colour
Smelling - smell hot metal
Feeling - sensation
Hearing - sounds
Tasting - Food/drink

I found this challenging as I kept getting lost in mind and stories of this an that. Eventually I would realise an bring my attention back to AE, for example, when I was welding an looking through my welding screen at the molten metal I experienced colour which the mind would label, yellow, red, blue, white etc but I was trying to just experience through the senses and thought without labelling. I was only able to maintain this for short periods of time.

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Re: Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

Postby forgetmenot » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:10 am

Hey M!

Shapes are nothing but different patterns of colour; without thought, how is it known, other than through thought, that something is a particular shape?
There are no shapes in AE, everything appears as different colours. As like looking at a flat screen, wherever I turn my head colours appear but have no 3D depth, they just begin and end where the next colour starts.
It seems my pointing was not clear. How is it known that one colour is ending and another is beginning? Without thought, how is it even known that there are many different colours?

Without thought, the label ‘colour’ would not even be known. So if you completely ignore all thoughts and labels about colour and that there are many different colours…is there many different colourS or is there just simply ‘COLOUR’ appearing which thought then divides into many different colours by labelling colour as colours ie pink, purple, yellow etc?
putting thought aside, how is it known that there are many different colours?
It is known that there are many different colours as each different colour begins where the next one ends.
Without thought, how is it known that a colour ends and another begins? LOOK carefully, how is it known that the colour labelled 'brown' is a tree and that the outside of the tree is the border which differentiates and separates the tree from the 'sky', 'grass', 'other tree'? Without thought, how would this be known?

Image
Are there many different objects of varying colourS, or is there simply colour which thought labels as many different objects in many different colours?
In AE there are many different seams of colour, not of objects.
For there to be many different seams of colour means that there are differences. Differences equal separation and there is no separation in any shape or form.

Image


A map shows how a country is seemingly divided into states and territories. Is the map made of those divisions? Or are those divisions simply the map being the map? The division are the map, but the map is not a division. Can you see this?

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.
I found this challenging as I kept getting lost in mind and stories of this an that. Eventually I would realise an bring my attention back to AE, for example, when I was welding an looking through my welding screen at the molten metal I experienced colour which the mind would label, yellow, red, blue, white etc but I was trying to just experience through the senses and thought without labelling. I was only able to maintain this for short periods of time.
Labels are thoughts, there is no difference between a label and a thought. So, it’s not about trying to stop labelling from happening, but to notice that labelling does happen, and labels are simply AE of thought.

The sound labelled as ‘welding’ is simply, AE of sound
The colour labelled as ‘welding sparks’ are AE of colour
The label ‘welding’ is AE of thought
The smell labelled as ‘welding’ is simply, AE of smell
The sensation labelled ‘welding burn’ is simply AE of sensation
The thoughts about ‘welding’ are simply AE of thought.

I’d like you to spend another day on breaking down activities into AE please. Seeing AE clearly is an important component of our exploration. Let me know how you go.

Love, Kay
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Re: Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

Postby Funkybuddha » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:59 pm

Hi Kay,
Without thought, the label ‘colour’ would not even be known. So if you completely ignore all thoughts and labels about colour and that there are many different colours…is there many different colourS or is there just simply ‘COLOUR’ appearing which thought then divides into many different colours by labelling colour as colours ie
In AE and the experience of 'seeing' there is only colour. No borders, no beginning, no end, sub-divisions of colour are only mind.
A map shows how a country is seemingly divided into states and territories. Is the map made of those divisions? Or are those divisions simply the map being the map? The division are the map, but the map is not a division. Can you see this?
In AE looking at a map is an experience of seeing colour, nothing else. It becomes a map when mind labels it different colours, then into states and territories etc
I’d like you to spend another day on breaking down activities into AE please. Seeing AE clearly is an important component of our exploration. Let me know how you go.
I tried to get familiar with experiencing reality through AE today.
Looking at the landscape as only colour, then realising it is mind that sub-divides the experience into different colours objects etc this is a blue sky a brown tree a green hillside etc

The same goes for sound, there is only noise which mind labels wind, car horn, people speaking etc

Also with sensation, I feel cold, I feel warm, I feel happy, I feel sad etc are all labels attached to the direct experience of 'feeling' when in AE there is only sensation

With smell too, this smell is coffee, it smells sweet etc, all mind and labels again when in AE there is only the experience of smelling

Then taste, this drink tastes sweet, In AE there is only tasting, then mind comes in an labels the experience

So in AE the
Seeing is made of colour
Hearing is made of sound
Feeling is made of sensation
Tasting is made of taste
Smelling is made of smell

Anything that adds to this with a narrative about it is thought

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Re: Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:34 am

Hey Mark!

Seems the walk was an insightful one! :) Me doing the snoopy dance for you for having your wonderful insights! haha

Image
A map shows how a country is seemingly divided into states and territories. Is the map made of those divisions? Or are those divisions simply the map being the map? The division are the map, but the map is not a division. Can you see this?
In AE looking at a map is an experience of seeing colour, nothing else. It becomes a map when mind labels it different colours, then into states and territories etc
Yes, because even the so called borders on the map are AE of colour and not AE of borders.
I’d like you to spend another day on breaking down activities into AE please. Seeing AE clearly is an important component of our exploration. Let me know how you go.
Looking at the landscape as only colour, then realising it is mind that sub-divides the experience into different colours objects etc this is a blue sky a brown tree a green hillside etcThe same goes for sound, there is only noise which mind labels wind, car horn, people speaking etc Also with sensation, I feel cold, I feel warm, I feel happy, I feel sad etc are all labels attached to the direct experience of 'feeling' when in AE there is only sensation
With smell too, this smell is coffee, it smells sweet etc, all mind and labels again when in AE there is only the experience of smelling. Then taste, this drink tastes sweet, In AE there is only tasting, then mind comes in an labels the experience
Beautiful! :)
So in AE the
Seeing is made of colour
Hearing is made of sound
Feeling is made of sensation
Tasting is made of taste
Smelling is made of smell
Anything that adds to this with a narrative about it is thought
YES, YES, YES! So colour, sound, sensation, taste, smell and thoughts are known however the thoughts about AE are fictional stories. The stories are known because they are thought, but what the stories point to are like Snow White and the 7 dwarves.

If you look at this busy picture again, what is actually appearing?

Image


So keep on breaking activities down into AE for the next few days so it is clear what AE is and how thoughts overlay AE with many different narratives about AE.

Let’s begin to look at the nature of thought.

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, close the eyes and just notice thoughts and do this several times throughout the day and then do the exercise throughout the day as per instructions below.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts.
Looking how they come and go.
And observing the short gap between them.
Noticing how the current thought is passing.
And waiting for the next thought to come.

Please do the following exercise:
Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Let me know how you go.


Love, Kay
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https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

Postby Funkybuddha » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:21 am

Hi Kay,
If you look at this busy picture again, what is actually appearing?
Observing this picture through AE all is appearing is colour. Mind then begins labelling, blue, white, black, yellow etc Sky, building, car, bus, people etc
Please do the following exercise:
Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Let me know how you go.
Thoughts seem to arise within my awareness, there is no structure to them, like they can be about anything, past or future, they just come an go. When I focus on the gap it appears that I go to AE and there is no mind there, When I hear, feel, smell, taste or see thinking stops and I experience reality through my senses. A thought then come in again, then leaves, then sometimes followed by another before I get another glimpse of AE. I could do with practising this so more.

Hope this helps
Love M

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Re: Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:30 am

Hello Mark,
If you look at this busy picture again, what is actually appearing?
Observing this picture through AE all is appearing is colour. Mind then begins labelling, blue, white, black, yellow etc Sky, building, car, bus, people etc
Yes, great! However, once again, there is no "mind". When observing thoughts (looking for the gap) did you see a "mind"? If you did, please describe it to me in detail and describe in detail where it is located.

You are not observing anything through AE. AE is what is here and always has been. There are raw experiences: sound/hearing, colour/seeing, sensation/touching/feelings, smell/smelling, and taste/tasting which is actual experience (AE). Then there are thoughts. The face value of thought are AE too as they are an appearance just like sound, smell, taste, sensation and colour. houghts layer concepts over these raw experiences. A thought or concept or label is never the actual. Some thoughts point to the actual, and some point to other thoughts. This is the realm of make-believe. This is the realm of “I.”
Please do the following exercise:
Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.
Let me know how you go.
Thoughts seem to arise within my awareness, there is no structure to them, like they can be about anything, past or future, they just come an go. When I focus on the gap it appears that I go to AE and there is no mind there, When I hear, feel, smell, taste or see thinking stops and I experience reality through my senses. A thought then come in again, then leaves, then sometimes followed by another before I get another glimpse of AE. I could do with practising this so more.
Great observation with thoughts. Yes, they just come and go and there is not structure to them. The purpose of the exercise was for you to become aware of thoughts and this exercise is also good in showing how to LOOK. How carefully and diligently you looked for the gap is how you LOOK to see if you can a separate self.


I don’t know how you are going to AE? The gap is not AE! The AE of a gap is thought. It is just a thought appearing saying that there is a gap. Without thought how is it known that you have reached a gap?

Empty space is no different to solid matter; it is still a some 'thing', not a lack of some 'thing'. It is experience appearing as empty space.

There is still an idea in your mind that you need to reach some place, based on spiritual concepts. Please put aside those concepts, they have no place here and will be nothing but a hindrance.

You don’t have to go anywhere to reach AE. Becoming aware of AE is not difficult. Actual experience (AE) always is and doesn’t go anywhere, so there is no place for you to go to become aware of AE! All you need to do is look in front of you and there is colour! Do you need to go somewhere to be aware of colour, sound, smell, taste, sensation or thought? When making your morning coffee, do you need to go somewhere to smell the aroma or to taste it? Do you need to go somewhere to know/be aware of thoughts?

When you close your eyes what is seen? Thought says it is blackness, and yes it is blackness, but black is just an appearing colour. Can you find anything in the so called blackness (colour) that has anything to do with actual experience, other than the colour black itself?


'Blackness' is not 'nothing' (empty space/void), black is experience appearing as blackness, it's not the absence of experience. Darkness/blackness is just a colour, like any other, no different from light. Thought labels darkness as the absence of some 'thing' but it is no less known than light is.

Let’s continue with getting clear on what actual experience (AE) is, because there still seems to be some confusion around it.

I would like you to sit in a quiet room, where noises outside can be heard. Close your eyes and just listen to the sounds for a few minutes. Really hear them.

Tell me ONE noise that you heard when doing this?

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Funkybuddha
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Re: Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

Postby Funkybuddha » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:30 pm

Hi Kay, I have re read the whole thread after work an am seeing it clearer I think :)
Yes, great! However, once again, there is no "mind". When observing thoughts (looking for the gap) did you see a "mind"? If you did, please describe it to me in detail and describe in detail where it is located.
I think my wording for 'Mind' & 'Thought' was the same thing, Now I see that there is only thought that comes an goes. I never experienced a mind between thoughts.

I don’t know how you are going to AE? The gap is not AE! The AE of a gap is thought. It is just a thought appearing saying that there is a gap. Without thought how is it known that you have reached a gap?
Without thought it would not be known that I had reached a gap as a 'gap' is just a thought that there is separation between thoughts.
When you close your eyes what is seen? Thought says it is blackness, and yes it is blackness, but black is just an appearing colour. Can you find anything in the so called blackness (colour) that has anything to do with actual experience, other than the colour black itself?
In actual experience there is only seeing/colour & thought/black
Tell me ONE noise that you heard when doing this?
I heard in AE one noise, it was 'sound'

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forgetmenot
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Re: Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:24 am

Hey FB,
I have re read the whole thread after work an am seeing it clearer I think :)
Great! However, there is no one/no thing that thinks! ;)
Yes, great! However, once again, there is no "mind". When observing thoughts (looking for the gap) did you see a "mind"? If you did, please describe it to me in detail and describe in detail where it is located.
I think my wording for 'Mind' & 'Thought' was the same thing, Now I see that there is only thought that comes an goes. I never experienced a mind between thoughts.
Yes, I know you were using ‘mind’ for thought and I wanted you to see that there is no mind in AE. The AE of mind is thought, and the content (thoughts about) of the thought ‘mind’ is just thoughts about thoughts.

I don’t know how you are going to AE? The gap is not AE! The AE of a gap is thought. It is just a thought appearing saying that there is a gap. Without thought how is it known that you have reached a gap?
Without thought it would not be known that I had reached a gap as a 'gap' is just a thought that there is separation between thoughts.
So are you beginning to see how thoughts tell stories? Yes, it is only thought that says that thoughts are filling up ‘empty space’ and that thought and the space/gap are two different things, and this points to separation. Although a ‘gap’ can be seen, thoughts and the gap are experience appearing as a gap and as thoughts and as the thoughts about a gap. So they are ‘made from’ the same substance ie experience itself. Don’t get bogged down on this, it will become clearer later.
When you close your eyes what is seen? Thought says it is blackness, and yes it is blackness, but black is just an appearing colour. Can you find anything in the so called blackness (colour) that has anything to do with actual experience, other than the colour black itself?
In actual experience there is only seeing/colour & thought/black
Yes…lovely!

And is that blackness empty space or only thought says that the blackness is empty space?
Tell me ONE noise that you heard when doing this?
I heard in AE one noise, it was 'sound'
Haha, touche! So it is good to see that you are clear about AE!

Okay, so you have been observing thoughts, which was the point of the ‘how to look at thoughts’ exercise. The focus was on observing thoughts to see how they just come and go and also to show you that you LOOKED for the gap is how you LOOK to see if you can find the separate self.

Let’s continue with looking at the nature of thought.

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear, without you doing anything at all.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Where are they coming from and going to?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you push away any thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts? Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?
Can you choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to control any thoughts? Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?


Look carefully when doing this exercise and do it several times if necessary. Please answer each question individually.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/


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