HappyOne's Thread

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HappyOne's Thread

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:24 am

Hi Sarah,

Okay, so let's start from scratch. First some housekeeping and then a couple of questions.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ&app=desktop

Some housekeeping guidelines:-
1. This kind of inquiry works best as a major daily commitment - a sort of relentless 'starving of the seeker', so post at least once a day or every second day. If you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. ANSWER ONLY FROM ACTUAL EXPERIENCE (smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

This exploration is based on questions and exercises. I will ask questions as a means of pointing, but the questions aren’t about finding something unknown. The questions refer to what is already actually known. And what is already known? Sound, smell, taste, thought, sensation and colour. So, questions are not answered through thinking/thoughts (theories) but by LOOKING. The key is that you really have to LOOK. Why? Because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self.

What is LOOKING? ‘LOOKING’ is just plain looking at what is here right now. It is moving from the conceptual to actual experience (AE). The term “Actual Experience” (AE) is used to refer to your current experience ‘right now,’ without the thought stories. So, actual experience (AE) is image/colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought at face value. What thought says ie, the content of thought in and of itself does not contain any experience. This is evidenced by the fact that you cannot taste the word 'sweet'. So, when looking at actual experience (AE), you are looking at raw experience WITHOUT what thought says ABOUT the raw experience.

To begin with, I would just like to know what your expectations are from having this exploration. So, in your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers about what expectations you have) could you please answer the 3 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?


Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have highlighted in blue text. Please answer them individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: HappyOne's Thread

Postby HappyOne » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:35 pm

Hello, Kay. Here are the answers to the questions you asked:
How will life change?
Well, I can not really say how my life will change by going through this experience. I have learned that expectations are often just a fantasy. In past however, I have concentrated much of my time on seeking truth through Metaphysics, Buddhism, etc. Dropping all that I have learned will surely be change in itself.

How will you change?
I am not certain how exactly I will change, but I imagine it will be significant.
What will be different?
What will be different is how I see everything around me and how I view myself.

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Re: HappyOne's Thread

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:59 pm

Good morning Sarah!

It is good for both you and I to be aware of expectations. Every expectation is in the way of seeing what is here, right now. Every single expectation is a ‘hindrance’ in realizing what IS. Expectations are about the future. But liberation cannot be found in the future, as there is nothing that actually needs liberating, so liberation already is! What does happen during the exploration is that fear, resistance and frustration do appear. Let me know when they do so that we can look at them together.
How will life change?
Well, I can not really say how my life will change by going through this experience. I have learned that expectations are often just a fantasy. In past however, I have concentrated much of my time on seeking truth through Metaphysics, Buddhism, etc. Dropping all that I have learned will surely be change in itself.
Yes, the intensity of seeking falls away. There is a change as perception changes about ‘yourself’, life and what reality actually is.

It's somewhat like when you realised that Santa Claus didn't actually exist; that he was just character in a story. Nothing really changed and yet changes did happen. Thoughts, ideas and beliefs about Santa and Christmas fell away and they were perceived differently. Santa, however, still appears every Christmas, gifts are still exchanged, families still get together and depending on where you are, snow still appears.
How will you change?
I am not certain how exactly I will change, but I imagine it will be significant.
The realisation of ‘no self’ can be subtle, although a shift does take place. There has never been a separate self, not even one now who is reading this. How the character appears in the play called life is just an appearance…so there may or may not be changes.
What will be different?
What will be different is how I see everything around me and how I view myself.
Yes, eventually this may happen. So seeing self for what it really is – a story – does not mean that your life is suddenly upgraded in every conceivable way. Old habits, beliefs, programming and conditioning will very probably remain in place, this depends on whether or not you continue LOOKING after 'gating' so that other beliefs can be seen through. Awakening from the story of you allows old patterns to drop away quickly as the foundation upon which these patterns are based is gone.

So let’s begin with becoming aware of actual experience (AE) in day to day life.

Image

Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?


While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?

With love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: HappyOne's Thread

Postby HappyOne » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:19 pm

Hello Kay,
The realisation of ‘no self’ can be subtle, although a shift does take place. There has never been a separate self, not even one now who is reading this. How the character appears in the play called life is just an appearance…so there may or may not be changes.
There are degrees to which I have always seen this. Now that I have been working with LU, I am beginning to see more and feel I am almost there, but fears, major resistance, etc, as you mentioned
fear, resistance and frustration do appear.
, have begun appearing. I will let you know specifically what they are when they arise. Thank you!
Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?
I am concerned that I don't get this, even though it seems so simple and clear and so I must! Maybe this is a good example of fears arising? I understand the above example you gave with thinking, and experiencing. Meaning that this thing we call an 'apple' is only known as an 'apple' because we label it as so. I experience it's taste, it's smell, the way it feels in my hand, and the thoughts that come up about it when I am having these experiences, such as, "Yes, it is an apple." But, this is because I know it is called an apple. Without the label, the thought of the label would not be there. Maybe instead a wondering would? And, without these things about the 'apple', how it tastes, feels, etc, it is no longer an apple. It does not exist. It is not known without knowing these experiences. This is what I see.

With gratitude,
Sarah

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Re: HappyOne's Thread

Postby forgetmenot » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:08 am

Hello Sarah,
There are degrees to which I have always seen this. Now that I have been working with LU, I am beginning to see more and feel I am almost there, but fears, major resistance, etc, as you mentioned
You are putting unnecessary pressure on yourself by determining that you are nearly there. Just enjoy the process. The realisation happens when it happens and there is no forcing it. In the mean time you get to look at many beliefs that keeps the idea of there being a separate self in place. And it is good to see through these beliefs, because yo-yoing ie doubt and confusion will continue arise, even after the realisation happens.

Seeing through the Illusion of “I” doesn't mean you will lose the “I” and with it your whole identity. The “I” doesn't exist, not even now as you are reading these lines.
Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
You didn’t answer the following questions. Just a remind that anything that I have written in blue text, I would like for you to LOOK at and answer please.
Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?
Meaning that this thing we call an 'apple' is only known as an 'apple' because we label it as so.
So the label (thought) ‘apple’ is known, but is an actual ‘apple’ known?
I experience it's taste, it's smell, the way it feels in my hand, and the thoughts that come up about it when I am having these experiences, such as, "Yes, it is an apple." But, this is because I know it is called an apple. Without the label, the thought of the label would not be there.
Yes, if you had never ever had an apple before and didn’t know what it was, how would you know that the taste, smell and texture were that of an apple?

If you were blind and deaf, would you know that what your were tasting, smelling and feeling were that of an apple?
And, without these things about the 'apple', how it tastes, feels, etc, it is no longer an apple. It does not exist. It is not known without knowing these experiences. This is what I see.
Taste, smell, thought, colour, sound and sensation are actual experience and are known. However, yes, without the label or preconceived ideas (thoughts) that the taste, smell etc were of an apple, then the apple does not exist.

The raw or actual experience of taste is known, however is the taste ‘apple’ actually known? The raw or actual experience of smell is known, however is the smell ‘apple’ actually known?

Just so that you feel relaxed and comfortable in what is being pointed at, let’s have a LOOK at a ‘rose’.

Image

What is a rose? Perhaps a nice red and green flower with a pleasant smell and some sharp thorns?

But LOOK again - all that is actually present are colour (red and green), a nice smell and maybe an 'ouch' sensation. The rose itself is only a story. The rose itself is a thought story ABOUT colour, smell and sensation.
Can you see this?


Notice that all things that seem to exist are just like the rose. Just fictional stories about experience. Beyond the story, can any of them be found in actual experience to exist at all?

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: HappyOne's Thread

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:21 am

Hello Sarah....you still with me?

K
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https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: HappyOne's Thread

Postby HappyOne » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:55 pm

Hello Kay,

Yes, my sincere apologies. I have been out of town and didn't realize that I would not have internet. I got back late last night and am looking over your previous message now.

Kindly,
Sarah

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Re: HappyOne's Thread

Postby HappyOne » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:07 pm

So the label (thought) ‘apple’ is known, but is an actual ‘apple’ known?
But LOOK again - all that is actually present are colour (red and green), a nice smell and maybe an 'ouch' sensation. The rose itself is only a story. The rose itself is a thought story ABOUT colour, smell and sensation.
Can you see this?

Notice that all things that seem to exist are just like the rose. Just fictional stories about experience. Beyond the story, can any of them be found in actual experience to exist at all?
Yes, I see this. It is easier for me to see this with myself though. These stories that make up "me".

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Re: HappyOne's Thread

Postby HappyOne » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:28 pm

But LOOK again - all that is actually present are colour (red and green), a nice smell and maybe an 'ouch' sensation. The rose itself is only a story. The rose itself is a thought story ABOUT colour, smell and sensation.
Can you see this?

Notice that all things that seem to exist are just like the rose. Just fictional stories about experience. Beyond the story, can any of them be found in actual experience to exist at all?
Hi Kay,

So yes, unless you are actually experiencing the rose, it is all a thought story about the rose. Unless you are actually experiencing it, colours, smells and sensations are simply a thought. I see this.

Also, these stories that we have about experience, why do you call them fictional? I'm just curious. I would call them experiential. But, maybe they are fictional because they no longer exist?

Lovingly,
Sarah

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Re: HappyOne's Thread

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:09 pm

Hey Sarah….nice to hear from you.
So yes, unless you are actually experiencing the rose, it is all a thought story about the rose. Unless you are actually experiencing it, colours, smells and sensations are simply a thought. I see this.
Unless the colours, smell and sensations are your current experience, then there are only arising thoughts ABOUT colour, smell and sensation.
Also, these stories that we have about experience, why do you call them fictional? I'm just curious. I would call them experiential. But, maybe they are fictional because they no longer exist?
Go back to the rose. What is actually appearing is colour, sensation and smell, there is no rose. It is only thought that says that the colour, sensation and smell are a rose. Since it is the AE of colour, sensation and smell that are actually appearing…where is the rose?

For them to be experiential, you would need the experiencer of the experience which points to two, which in turn, points to separation. There is no experiencer of experience. It will become clearer as we move through this exploration.

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

The colour labelled 'cup' simply= colour
The smell labelled 'coffee', simply = smell,
The sensation labelled 'warmth' (of the coffee cup), simply = sensation.
The taste labelled 'coffee', simply = taste
The sound labelled 'tinkling' (spoon stirring the coffee), simply = sound
Thoughts ABOUT cup, coffee, spoon, making a cup of coffee and drinking the coffee etc, simply = thought.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: HappyOne's Thread

Postby HappyOne » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:38 pm

Hi, Kay,

Fun! Will do :)

Love,
Sarah

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Re: HappyOne's Thread

Postby HappyOne » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:13 am

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.
Hello Kay,

I was able to spend a portion of my day observing what you had asked, but I would really like to take one more day with it. Thank you for your guidance with this.

Lovingly,
Sarah

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Re: HappyOne's Thread

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:42 am

No probs, take the time you need.

Love, Kay
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https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: HappyOne's Thread

Postby HappyOne » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:50 pm

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.
Hello Kay,

I have done as you asked. I have broken down and experienced many different activities into the categories colour, smell, taste, sensation, sound, thought. Very interesting. These elements are ALL everything is composed of. The smell of the bread in front of me is experienced. The smell is not 'known', as you asked before, because if it was that would make it a thought, not a smell.

Do I see this clearly?

With heart,
Sarah

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Re: HappyOne's Thread

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:43 am

Hey Sarah,
I have done as you asked. I have broken down and experienced many different activities into the categories colour, smell, taste, sensation, sound, thought. Very interesting. These elements are ALL everything is composed of.
Yes, exactly…those elements are ALL everything is composed of.
The smell of the bread in front of me is experienced. The smell is not 'known', as you asked before, because if it was that would make it a thought, not a smell.
Smell is known, just as colour, sensation, thought, sound and taste are known. Why are they known…as you said above, because those elements are ALL everything is composed of.

So smell is known, however, without thought, there would be no way of knowing that the smell is that of bread….right?
Smell is known, no matter what thought labels it as. Have you ever smelled something but you didn’t know what it was? Did it matter that there was no label and that what the smell was, was unknown? Did it stop the smell from appearing? Did not knowing what the smell was, stop you from knowing that you have smelled a smell – did it stop you from being aware of a smell? Or were you aware of the smell anyway, label or not?


Smell is an appearance and you are aware of smell when it appears , so smell is known. However that the smell comes from bread is not known, because there is no AE of bread.

What constitutes bread or what bread is composed of is:

Label ‘bread’ and thoughts about ‘bread’ are known and are AE of thought, NOT AE of bread
Smell labelled but not known as ‘bread’ is AE of smell, NOT the AE of bread
Taste labelled but not known as ‘bread’ is AE of taste, NOT AE of bread
Sensations labelled but not known as ‘bread’ are AE of sensation, NOT AE of bread
Image/colour labelled but not known as ‘bread’ is AE of colour, NOT AE of bread.

So what is actually appearing is NOT bread. It is only thought that overlays what is actually appearing with the label ‘bread’ and ensuing thoughts about ‘bread’.

What is actually appearing or being ‘experienced’ is smell + taste + sensation + colour + label/thoughts, but there is no actual experience of bread!

Does this make it clearer?


If you find this too confusing, don’t concern yourself about it, we will try it another way.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/


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