Seeing truth

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Julian
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Seeing truth

Postby Julian » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:23 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
All illusion is born of the seed thought "I" which is experienced habitually as a apart of the mind's programming and running commentary on experience. The "I" is an empty concept, not truly a thing with any control, and this "I" thought cannot think or do, it is perceived and constantly changing, it's maladaptive ego programming.

What are you looking for at LU?
I want a guide through the Gateless Gate. I know this is the exit to the illusion, and am starting to pass through the gate already by reading Gateless Gatecrashers. In reading the testimony, I saw how quickly the people progressed in their level of awareness, and I want that help too. Now that I am passing through the gate, I want help to make it the most direct path through to the truth.

Instead of continuing on in self-led inquiry alone (as I have done in spirituality up until now), I would like the comfort and security of knowing that someone who has already passed through this has got my back and is helping me along the way. I want to avoid taking longer to pass through than I need to, and I think an LU guide would be the perfect support structure to help me direct my awareness as the levels peel away. It is almost known, I want to be firmly rooted in the truth. I know there is nothing else that matters, that everything in my life has lead me to this point. There is nothing left in life but to allow this fire to continue to burn the "I" way for good.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect a guide that will be able to push me further and facilitate and expedite my process. I have been applying the light of my awareness in a self guided way with EMDR therapy, Karmic Healing therapy, slef-psychoanalysis, (I have realized the entire nature of my ego structure and how its purpose is to please a narcissistic father). I've been listening to huge amounts of Alan Watts and Adyashanti Lectures, and have been journaling heavily for 4 months. With all of this information and exposure to the resonance of truth, I've have been mapping out the structures of all of the false perceptions, maladaptations and traumas I've sustained. By doing that I have been able to shine my awareness on things going deeper and deeper at a very fast rate.

I realized recently that all of the illusion is rooted in a misidentification. First I realized I was not the mind, then I realized I was awareness, then Rammana Maharishi's "Who am I" technique showed me that there was no "I" At this point I realized I was as the gateless gate and ready to see the truth. I googled "gateless gate" and found Liberation Unleashed.

I've read the technique that LU direct pointing employs and It has brought me more clarity to reality than I have ever had before.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I realized that the only way out of the illusion was to 'seek God' when I read Dan Millman's Way of the Peaceful Warrior 1 year ago. I have since experimented with meditation, Bhuddist teachings, but these were slow and quickly turned in to 'spiritual materialist' pursuits of experience, my mind co-opted all spiritual practices in to 'performances' easily. I recently listened to Alan Watts and Adyanshanti for a week straight, and spending so much time in the clarity that the resonance of their teachings brought me helped me realize that enlightenment is not a goal to be attained and sought for years on end (this is more spiritual materialism), but clarity is available in 1 second if I know where to look. I pinpointed Self Inquiry as the most direct path to exiting the illusion, and listened to Mooji and Ramana Maharishi's direct pointing. After I asked "Who am I" to the point where I realized that the self was an illusion and there was no self, I had the sense that I had reached the "gateless gate", my ego knew it was on the brink of an abyss and was experiencing I felt I was experiencing 'Ego Death'. I looked up gateless gate on Google, wondering if there were specific instructions on how to surrender and fall in, and I and I found Liberation Unleashed. I have been reading Gateless Gatecrashers and this has brought me the most clarity I have ever felt in my life. I feel I am passing through the gate as the "I" thoughts subside and I feel I am watching as life unfolds in a non-local sense as opposed to being an "I" that is thinking and doing. I have realized that Life is "Life-ing" and part of the experience is "I" thoughts that lead in to drama patterns stories and illusions. The "I" thoughts are coming less often, but are still triggered very heavily in any social interaction or social setting. I want your guidance!

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

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Canfora
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Re: Seeing truth

Postby Canfora » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:20 pm

Hi Julian. Welcome to the LU forum. It's nice to have you here, sorry for the wait. I can be your guide if that's okay with you.

Reading your introduction I get the idea that you seem to be in a quest to arrive somewhere, to achieve something.
I suggest that, for the time being, you stop all the activities you mention. The idea is to make you see things as they are now, not how you think they should be. Meditation would be okay (but not necessary) but can you put all the rest on hold while we are having these conversation?
clarity is available in 1 second if I know where to look
Yes, I would agree. What do you think looking is? Have you tried looking for a self? How did it go?

Looking forward to our conversation,
Canfora

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Julian
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Re: Seeing truth

Postby Julian » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:24 pm

Hi Canfora,

Thank you so much for your response! I feel very happy that someone is out there helping me!

I DO feel like I'm on a quest to achieve something, some abiding state of connection and release from my search. I had an experience reading Gateless Gatecrashers on the beach where my separation vanished, and I knew I was a part of everything and could not die. After this I felt giddy and relaxed and was giggling. The quote that did it for me was 'the universe does not need a general manager'. I've always felt like I'm in control, but perpetually failing, and need to just DO IT RIGHT. This relates to my upbringing, being the parentified child, trying to smooth over dynamics with my parents and perform for my dads attention and love. So I'm constantly monitoring other peoples opinions of me and afraid of rejection. This is my personal trauma and attatchemnt, and I'm healing it through EMDR therapy and karmic healing therapy. I feel like my life is just about to start as I look for a job as a designer after college and the pressure to launch successfully is driving me crazy. I don't want to end up back in my parents house in a rut! I tend to go in to rumination as my coping mechanism against feelings of abandonment. Rumination typically centers around "I" and 'my' failures.

I will stop all activities mentioned for this conversation. This is a relief, I need a break from seeking and self analysis.

When I look form me, I have the sense of my awareness passing through the back of my body and vanishing. I is a recurring thought that is well rutted out in the brain circuitry. I had an experience of distinctly realizing that sensations, feelings and thoughts are all happening NOW in reality, and that "I" is just a thought. I feel like my bodily knowledge is based in the knowing I am not a self, but I'm still living in the Illusion of self, hence my quest to 'arrive somewhere'. I am very confused. I just had a Shaktipat intensive right after this huge change in perspective of shift in conception of self from Gateless Gatecrashers. Still though after this period of increasing clarity I feel my mental and emotional state is deteriorating, there is not the abiding felt sense that there is no controller, I am walking up stressed out and depressed versus for the past 2 weeks I was waking up excited every day and felt like it was Christmas, thinking "Is this the day that I realize my true nature?" So right now I'm feeling frustrated, like a passed through the gate and it didn't take. But these are just thoughts. "I must be doing something wrong" - enter rumination, chewing the endless cud of feeling like I'm failing - "I should be enlightened right now! I passed through the Gateless Gate and had a Shaktipat! But I feel anxious now like I've set myself up for a big failure, I feel like life is at the end of its rope!" The pressure is making me sick. Help me!

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Canfora
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Re: Seeing truth

Postby Canfora » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:32 am

Hi Julian,
I will stop all activities mentioned for this conversation. This is a relief, I need a break from seeking and self analysis.
Wonderful, thank you. If you find yourself doing something that you say you will stop doing, don't worry. Just be aware of what you're doing, no need to judge yourself (and if judging happens... well... it's okay also).

You are very aware of what is going on with you. That's good. You seem to think a lot about yourself. And worry a lot. Are you also aware of what is going on around you? Not all the time - because the intensive thinking will not allow it - but sometimes?

When you walk in the street, for example, are you sometimes aware of the sun, or the wind, or the sounds, or the sensations?
"Is this the day that I realize my true nature?"
Can you write about this some more? What are you expecting to realize? And what are you expecting to happen if/when you realize it?

Take care,
Canfora

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Julian
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Re: Seeing truth

Postby Julian » Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:00 pm

I realize that I DO think about myself a lot. Incessantly! Typically it centers around fear of rejection and if I am 'bad'.
When I create art, draw, listen to music or play music, and walk in nature I am out of my mind and totally present, and the self analysis vanishes. I feel peaceful. On nature walks I can process my emotions, and the longer the walk the quieter my mind gets and the more I'm engrossed in whats going on around me. and the more clarity and compassion i feel for myslef. The veil of the 'life is scary and I'm to blame' illusion lifts.

The ruminating about myself (great word I just found) Is actually a defense mechanism against the underlying wounds from my childhood, so sometimes I will be worrying about what others think if me and hat I've 'done wrong' and how' stupid and shameful' I am, sometimes I'll be fixated on what others have done to me and feel very angry. This kind of thought blanket numbs my emotions of pain and isolation, but unfortunately it keeps me isolated. So I'm just aware that my brain is wired to ruminate and right no it ruminates about rumination.

My expectations are for myself are the 'carrot' end of the ruminations, the self shame and hate are the 'stick'. In a carrot and stick model, where the donkey runs from the stick towards the carrot. These expectations are also the prison that my mind lives in, impossible expectations it can never live up to.
The expectations are to be:
-perfect
-a good kid
-never make mistakes
-be a star

In reality, the truth is very freeing:
-perfection is a human idea and never achievable, life would be boring if anything was PERFECT, especially ME!
-A good kid is a FAKE kid! I'm ME! I'm weird and goofy!
-Mistakes are how we learn! I wouldn't know anything or have learned anything if not for mistakes. If there were no mistakes, life would be flat and homogeneous and not worth living!
-Being a star is an ACT! I just want to be who I am, and have fun!

This parallels my expectations for enlightenment too:
-My problems vanish
-I finally become perfect
-My dad loves me unconditionally
-I solve everyone else's problems

These expectations are just the cage that seeing reality will free me from! Its funny that the mind takes the realization that there is no JULIAN to mold and craft in the first place, and then says "perfect! THIS is how I'll become perfect, finally start living te wonderful perfect life I've always felt I was making to many mistakes to live, and THIS will make my dad love me unconditionally!"

Heavy expectations, these things keep me searching on the never ending quest and are 180 degrees the opposite of what reality is! HA!

Similarly

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Canfora
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Re: Seeing truth

Postby Canfora » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:04 pm

Thank you for your answers Julian! You are a gifted narrator of the self story.
seeing reality will free me
I wonder what you think "seeing reality" is. Would you say that right now you are seeing reality as it is? Is seeing what surrounds you seeing reality? When you look and see a pen, for example, are you seeing reality as it is?

If I ask you to drop the narration just for a moment, to stop focusing on the self-story just for a few minutes and look (using the eyes, using the senses) for this self that is going to get free and describe this self to me, what would you describe? Don't think, look. What can you find here, now, that is this self?

Take care,
C

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Julian
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Re: Seeing truth

Postby Julian » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:03 am

When I look at a pen, I see it. When I look for the self, all that is felt is experience. There's nothing to find. Its now.

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Canfora
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Re: Seeing truth

Postby Canfora » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:52 pm

Okay. Does this mean there isn't a self inside the body, thinking thoughts and controlling life? How do you know that what you're saying is true?

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Julian
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Re: Seeing truth

Postby Julian » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:52 am

There is no control. Actions happen, there's no controller. Thoughts just arise. Actions in response to stumulus. There is very clearly no self whatsoever. ha HA!

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Canfora
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Re: Seeing truth

Postby Canfora » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:27 pm

Let's say you are talking with a friend about this, and your friend wants to know for himself that a self is an illusion.
How would you explain the illusion?
What would you tell him to show that there is no separate self here/now?

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Julian
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Re: Seeing truth

Postby Julian » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:49 pm

I'd say: there's an illusion that there's controlling agent inside our bodies that makes decisions, conjures thoughts in to being, and chooses how they will react to stimulus. This self is like the pit inside an avocado, in how were taught to understand the world. Each avocado pit has innate qualities: funniness, strength, weakness, love. The assumption of the existence of this avocado pit self is never questioned, but I invite you to look for yourself. Can you control your thoughts. Stop thinking for 5 minutes, then turn them back on. When someone asks you something, can you control your response, or does it come out spontaneously often without thinking? Look inside yourself and see if you can locate this avocado pit. Is it in there at all? Or is it an illusion. See for yourself.

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Canfora
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Re: Seeing truth

Postby Canfora » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:53 am

Do you have doubts Julian? Any questions? What changed since you saw that the self is illusory?

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Julian
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Re: Seeing truth

Postby Julian » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:42 pm

The illusion of self and of control often comes back in and is believed, although with less veracity. Is this normal? The doubts are "If the truth of self has been fully seen, how is it possible that it is believed again? Must it be seen more thoroughly?"

What has changed is that there used to be a constant worrying about if the self was a bad self compared to other selves, that running commentary that used to bring so much suffering has been largely neutralized.

The fact there is no control and no self is most clearly seen and remembered while investigating. Experience becomes more vivid and whole. After the investigation concludes and normal activities carry on, the clarity fades and the thought layer clouds reality a bit more, although not nearly as much as a few years ago. Is this normal? Should the self and control illusions be further examined, say in an every day routine? Or is seeing enough and this momentum will dissolve the rest of the illusion like dominoes without any effort to re-investigate repeatedly?

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Julian
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Re: Seeing truth

Postby Julian » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:48 pm

Also the belief that this isn't reality right now and life hasn't started yet is fading fast. This is much nicer way to experience the now as legitimately the present moment.

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Canfora
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Re: Seeing truth

Postby Canfora » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:49 pm

The illusion of self and of control often comes back in and is believed, although with less veracity. Is this normal? The doubts are "If the truth of self has been fully seen, how is it possible that it is believed again? Must it be seen more thoroughly?"
Yes, it's normal. The illusion that you are a separate self happens as thoughts. And the content of seelfing thoughts is all about the illusory you. That's how the illusion keeps in place. This thinking as a self usually goes around a past self or a future self. And when the thinking is about the now self, the now self is missing something or isn't good enough or needs to do something that isn't doing yet. It's easy to believe in the thinking. It's also relatively easy to check if the thinking is aligned with what is going on at the moment or is creating an illusion - when you know how to do this - but this takes some practice.
What has changed is that there used to be a constant worrying about if the self was a bad self compared to other selves, that running commentary that used to bring so much suffering has been largely neutralized.
That's nice.
the clarity fades and the thought layer clouds reality a bit more, although not nearly as much as a few years ago. Is this normal?
Oh, yes. You can play with this. See if you have any control over the thought layer clouds. It is possible that, after seeing how you can't control thoughts, no matter how hard you try, you can just let them be without thinking that you should be doing something about them (like if you are listening to a annoying radio station). Or you may practice thinking more pleasant thoughts. Or something else. I don't think that more or less thoughts mean something special, although I would agree that thoughts seem to cloud reality and sometimes would prefer their content to change.
Should the self and control illusions be further examined, say in an every day routine?
If you have doubts yes. Absolutely. Unless that by examined you mean to think harder about these subjects. Thinking more will not be helpful. You have to look to see what is really going on, instead of relying in thinking.
Or is seeing enough and this momentum will dissolve the rest of the illusion like dominoes without any effort to re-investigate repeatedly?
Effort may be necessary. It seems to me that you are still expecting something to change, like if a veil could be lifted and voilá, no more illusions. Eventually this idea that you have to dissolve the rest of the illusions will stop bothering you and you will reach the next level: dealing with daily life, without expecting something special to happen (like the dissolution of the illusions). This, of course, is just my point of view. There are many people in groups connected with LU doing further investigation to dissolve the rest of the illusions and they seem to think they are getting results, so it's highly possible that may point of view is very biased. Different people, different outcomes.
Also the belief that this isn't reality right now and life hasn't started yet is fading fast. This is much nicer way to experience the now as legitimately the present moment.
The present moment has this amazing quality that an imaginary moment doesn't has: it's real :)

You seem to have got what we point to really fast. Keep writing until you feel sure that you saw the illusion. What I would like to ask you next is to give me one example or two of situations that let you know there isn't a you in control of a slice of life. So, can you please have a look and describe what you see in your present experience that makes you say there is no controller? Thanks.


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