hello again

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lchettle
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hello again

Postby lchettle » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:18 am

Everytime I've been here or ruthless truth to chat with someone I end up getting scared of loss, get distracted by all of my thoughts, and end up thinking I will never do this.

I'm done trying to look. And ready to see.

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Damon Kamda
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Re: hello again

Postby Damon Kamda » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:43 pm

Hi Levi,

There's still an unanswered post in your previous thread here (feb. 5). Do you want continue where we left or start again from scratch? Let me know. Thanks.

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lchettle
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Re: hello again

Postby lchettle » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:59 am

yeah starting fresh sounds good. It is good to hear from you again Nomad.

I had a weird experience in the gym the other day. I realized that there is no difference in how I experience what to be myself and what is "outside" of myself.

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Damon Kamda
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Re: hello again

Postby Damon Kamda » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:33 am

yeah starting fresh sounds good.
Ok, so let's start by setting some ground rules here.
We're quite busy here these days, so how about we make this worth the time for the both of us?

So rule no. 1 is: fuck speculation and theorizing. All I want from you is 100% honesty: just describe what is being experienced.

Rule no. 2: Write as clearly as possible.
I had a weird experience in the gym the other day. I realized that there is no difference in how I experience what to be myself and what is "outside" of myself.
This is already in violation of rule no. 2, so I'm just gonna politely ignore that, allright? ;-)

So, if you are willing to stick to these simple rules, why don't you share what brought you back here? What's going on?

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lchettle
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Re: hello again

Postby lchettle » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:11 pm

I came back because I believe liberation will make my problems disapate, get rid of stresses, and allow me to see through a lot of bullshit.

I see keyboard, mouse, screen, wood, walls, and a bunch of other shit. I see am arm, feel the desk, feel pants, feel air entering the lungs.

The only place a difference exists in these experiences is when the mind labels it as such. It is in thought. The act of having a thought is real, yet the content is imaginary. The only real thing is what is happening at this moment. Focusing on labels, concepts, ect is ignoring what is really happening.

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Damon Kamda
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Re: hello again

Postby Damon Kamda » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:14 pm

I see keyboard, mouse, screen, wood, walls, and a bunch of other shit. I see am arm, feel the desk, feel pants, feel air entering the lungs.

The only place a difference exists in these experiences is when the mind labels it as such. It is in thought. The act of having a thought is real, yet the content is imaginary. The only real thing is what is happening at this moment. Focusing on labels, concepts, ect is ignoring what is really happening.
Are you just writing what you think I want you to write or is this simply what is being experienced?

"The act of having a thought"

Tell me more. Is having a thought an act? Is someone doing the thoughts, creating them, having them?
Where do thoughts come from? Where do they go? What is a thought?
I came back because I believe liberation will make my problems disapate, get rid of stresses, and allow me to see through a lot of bullshit.
Ok, that's honest. Good.

What makes a problem YOUR problem?
What is a problem and why should they disappear?

Look at that- really: what is a problem? What makes some event a problem? Look into the emergence of problems and the desire to get rid of them. There's your key to this.

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lchettle
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Re: hello again

Postby lchettle » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:51 am

Those are the only things that are real. I'm experiencing thoughts and other shit, but they are not real. I just let them overwhelm me sometimes.

Sure it's an act. Something is happening. Little impulses going thru the brain. It's hard to tell where they come from. It is impossible to know what effects them. All you could do is look back at what is creating them and speculate...

Thoughts, well they either disappaite or they can hang around for a while. Some reoccur, some never happen again.

What is a thought? some impusles and signals going thru the brain.

A problem is mine because I have to deal with it, not someone else. A problem is something that is bothering me, that I need to make better. A problem is when I don't like the way something is.

I'm looking.

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Damon Kamda
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Re: hello again

Postby Damon Kamda » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:13 pm

A problem is mine because I have to deal with it, not someone else. A problem is something that is bothering me, that I need to make better. A problem is when I don't like the way something is.
Yes, so what is the NATURE of a problem, what is it made of? The problemness of a problem, wherein does that lie?

I'm inviting you to see a very simple and thererfore easily overlooked aspect of our subjective or direct experience (which is all there is really).

There is a field of sensations, thoughts, emotions.
Some of which are considered problematic and trigger thoughts such as

"This shouldn't be happening" or "Why do I have to deal with this?"

I'm suggesting here that there is an intimate, inextricable relationship between "problems" and the illusion of self.

All your problems are simply thoughts that want to make reality (whatever is happening right now) other than it is because they do not match up with your story.

The easiest way to explain what we're on about here on this forum is this: there's reality (whatever is happening right now) and stories about reality (the narrative that is constantly evaluating everything, measuring its value in terms of the story of you).

One is real, one is not.

What would it take to show you that this is in fact the case?

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lchettle
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Re: hello again

Postby lchettle » Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:05 am

The problem is the discrepancy between what is happening and what I think should be happening. The problemness is wanting something different than what is. Rather than just seeing what is.

I don't have a fucking clue what it would take for me to see that. It seems pretty obvious. I'll put it to the test.

Seeing this makes they I disappear or am I reading into this too far?

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Damon Kamda
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Re: hello again

Postby Damon Kamda » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:35 am

The problem is the discrepancy between what is happening and what I think should be happening. The problemness is wanting something different than what is. Rather than just seeing what is.
That's it, exactly.
I don't have a fucking clue what it would take for me to see that. It seems pretty obvious. I'll put it to the test.
Yes, test it out and note the relationship between problems and the I-thought. Note the mechanism at work here.
The way to go about is by not stopping at the way 'things' appear, but by closely examining the way 'things' come into being and the role thought plays in that, and especially the thought of self. All you need to do is look.
Seeing this makes they I disappear or am I reading into this too far?
How can something that doesn't exist disappear?

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lchettle
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Re: hello again

Postby lchettle » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:37 pm

"The way to go about is by not stopping at the way 'things' appear, but by closely examining the way 'things' come into being and the role thought plays in that, and especially the thought of self. All you need to do is look."

can you say this in a different way?

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Damon Kamda
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Re: hello again

Postby Damon Kamda » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:38 pm

can you say this in a different way?
Yes.

Is it true that there is no you?
not stopping at the way 'things' appear,


There appears to be a problem.
but by closely examining the way 'things' come into being and the role thought plays in that
By looking closely at what appears to be a problem, it can clearly be seen to be a thought, nothing more.
and especially the thought of self
The thought of a self is the root of the problem.
All you need to do is look.
This can be seen, right now.

Do you exist, Levi?

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lchettle
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Re: hello again

Postby lchettle » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:49 am

No crazy changes here, but I have been looking and confirmed that the only place problems occur is with the I-thought. Otherwise things are just happening.

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Damon Kamda
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Location: Amsterdam

Re: hello again

Postby Damon Kamda » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:56 am

Good to hear from you.
No crazy changes here, but I have been looking and confirmed that the only place problems occur is with the I-thought. Otherwise things are just happening.
Don't expect any crazy changes to come. The insight we're pointing to here is pretty straightforward and is not necessarily accompanied by bells and whistles.

So, you now see that "the only place problems occur is with the I-thought"?
Where does that leave us? Where does that leave you?


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