awakening vs enlightenment

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Lucas369
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby Lucas369 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:21 pm

whenever the ME comes there is ME and others

When the ME is here, is it only a thought?
Or is there an image as well, in the shape of your face (like you see it in the mirror)
What about the feelings? Are feelings also part of the ME?

Don't think, look here and now!
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Embrace fear, love disappointment and be the light at the end of the tunnel

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rajeshpullat
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby rajeshpullat » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:50 pm

in reality there is no me
all (thoughts, feelings, emotions, sense perceptions) arise within something which is indescribable
Rajesh

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Lucas369
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby Lucas369 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:14 pm

For me it feels as if we are conceptualizing here. But this will lead us nowhere. One time you say

the ME is always a thought and whenever the ME comes there is ME and others

and this time

in reality there is no me

So is there a ME in reality or not? If 'me' is just a thought then it's a thought and no ME! You see, this is contradictory, because your answers do not come from direct experience.

It is not our aim here on LU to persuade or to teach someone that there is no self. Apart from that this does not work at all. I am not a teacher, just a guide. I am asking questions that should guide you to look and find out for yourself. And this looking is something that no-one can do for you!

whenever there is a thought the ME comes back

Let's take another thought, "Santa" for example. Does the appearing of the thought "Santa" create a real Santa that suddenly pops up in front of you?

So how about the thought 'I'?
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Embrace fear, love disappointment and be the light at the end of the tunnel

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rajeshpullat
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby rajeshpullat » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:51 am

Hi
i dont have direct experience
So, basically i am doing only conceptualizing based on the teachings i have heard
Anyway i got the understanding that when there are no thoughts there is no ME
Rajesh

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Lucas369
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby Lucas369 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:29 pm

Hi Rajesh,
i dont have direct experience
So, basically i am doing only conceptualizing based on the teachings i have heard

is this a tongue-in-cheek answer? Of course you have direct experiences! You can see, hear, feel, smell, taste, sense your body and listen to thoughts, don't you? This IS direct experience. In fact there is nothing else. And I really plead with you for NOT answering from your knowing from teachings or your past life. All we do is to investigate what can be experienced here and now. Only that counts. Forget about the rest. We could go on conceptualizing for ages, but that's totally useless!

Imagine someone who is walking though a wonderful landscape. But instead of looking around he is seeking for something in his memories. Can he see the beauty around him? No, he will be in trance. And is it a matter of time before he can see the beauty of nature, if he goes on like this? No, he will never find direct experience in his memory!

Here is an exercise to clarify what I mean:

Please close your eyes. Imagine to hold a melon in your hand. Feel the shape, the temperature and the weight, see the color... Does it smell? Then imagine to take a knife and to cut it into pieces. Taste it. Is it very sweet? Does it have seeds inside?

Then open your eyes.
What happened to the melon?
Was it ever here in direct experience?
Did it get destroyed?
Did you have to do anything to get rid of the imagined melon?

Now how about the ME?
Is the ME something that can be lost or destroyed?
Was it ever here in direct experience?
Or is it something that is simply not here if it is not imagined?
And is it not the case that you are in a trance like the man in the example above if you imagine a ME?
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Embrace fear, love disappointment and be the light at the end of the tunnel

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rajeshpullat
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby rajeshpullat » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:11 am

Hi
nowadays i try to be in that state what you explained for most of the time
That is, observe without thoughts or stories in mind
and if that is direct experience i am already experiencing thta
Rajesh

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Lucas369
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby Lucas369 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:57 am

Hi Rajesh,
nowadays i try to be in that state what you explained for most of the time
That is, observe without thoughts or stories in mind
and if that is direct experience i am already experiencing thta

if you try to be in a state for most of the time that means that there still is a 'you' doing so. Therefore this practice does not stop the believing in a false self! If you are really interested in realizing no-self, please do the exercises I propose and report as detailed as possible what you find out.

Are you still interested? Then please do the exercise with the melon and tell me what you found out. If you are not interested any more, please tell me as well.

Luke
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Embrace fear, love disappointment and be the light at the end of the tunnel

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rajeshpullat
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby rajeshpullat » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:33 pm

Hi
regarding the melon exercise:
the melon is just in my mind as a memory of what i have already experienced with a melon
I am just recollecting the memory when i visualize it in my hand or imagine the taste of it
similary the ME is also just an imagination in the mind
ofcourse i am not able to experience the no ME state consistently
but i try to be in that state as much as possible
especially when something bad happens suddenly there is a me trying to find security
Rajesh

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Lucas369
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby Lucas369 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:37 pm

ofcourse i am not able to experience the no ME state consistently


Hi Rajesh,

there is no such thing as a 'no ME state', because there is no me. It's just that in one case (when you clearly see it) it is seen that there is no me, and in the other case there is an illusion of a ME and identification with this illusionary person happens.

but i try to be in that state as much as possible]

Can Santa 'try to be' in a certain state? Or can Batman do that? Can an illusion, an imagined character have any effect on reality??

Please try this one: Reach out one arm in front of you. Then let the hand do a movement - any movement is fine.

Did you know in advance which movement the hand would do?
Who moves the hand?
Is there a ME doing that?
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Embrace fear, love disappointment and be the light at the end of the tunnel

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rajeshpullat
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby rajeshpullat » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:29 am

Hi
Thanks for your support
But i think i am not really getting what you say
so, may be it is better to stop the conversation?
I hope i will get to know what i need to know in the right time
Rajesh

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Lucas369
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby Lucas369 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:47 pm

Hi Rajesh,
so, may be it is better to stop the conversation?

it's up to you. I will be here as long as my support is needed, which means until you can clearly SEE that there is no self.
And if you don't understand all that I'm saying this is also not too bad. More important than understanding is LOOKing in the direction I point to. Part of that is also to do the exercises I propose, even if they seem to be ridiculous (for the mind).

To realize no-self is actually not a big deal, thousands of people have already seen it. But it takes your absolute willingness.
So please let me know about your decision.

Luke

PS: Some helpful questions can be:

- Do you really want to realize no-self?
- What do you expect from this conversation?
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Embrace fear, love disappointment and be the light at the end of the tunnel

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rajeshpullat
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby rajeshpullat » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:34 am

Hi
thanks for all your support
i will contact you again if i need some clarification
bye for now
Rajesh

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Lucas369
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby Lucas369 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:11 pm

Hi Rajesh,
feel free to come back whenever you want!
But the process of unfolding will continue anyway.
Take care!
Bye
Luke
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Embrace fear, love disappointment and be the light at the end of the tunnel

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Vivien
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby Vivien » Mon May 18, 2020 2:16 am

Hi rajeshpullat,

I’ve heard from an admin that you would like to continue with your inquiry and I’m happy to help.

This is YOUR inquiry. I will not be giving you new ideas and beliefs; only assisting you in examining and questioning the ones that you already have. We can have a conversation and see where it takes you.

The purpose of which would be for there to be a realisation, more than just intellectually, that there never was and never will be a separate self, as, such. All our efforts will focus on that.

I will tend to ask many questions. That's my job here. These, will be pointers towards no self. It will be for you to examine your experience to find out what's true or not.

I would like to ask you to write only from your experience as you see it, what feels true, with whole honesty.
And also post daily. If you cannot post, or need more time, please let me know.
Can we agree on these?

Could you please share where are you at the moment, and how does the self shows up in your everyday life?

What are you really looking for? How would your life change if you find that?
What are you hoping for to change? What do you hope that should happen?
Do you have an image in mind how seeing through the self-illusion would be like or feel like?

Also, what name do you want me to call you?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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rajesh
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby rajesh » Mon May 18, 2020 4:55 am

Could you please share where are you at the moment, and how does the self shows up in your everyday life?
Ans: I had 3 psychotic episodes, with each one ego reducing more and more
self shows up in the form of anxiety, shame, fear, etc

What are you really looking for? How would your life change if you find that?
Ans: I am looking to free myself from suffering induced by imaginary self


What are you hoping for to change? What do you hope that should happen?
Ans: I am hoping that my fear, anxiety and shame will come to an end

Do you have an image in mind how seeing through the self-illusion would be like or feel like?
Ans: I think it will be like watching a screen/movie without fear, etc

Also, what name do you want me to call you?
Ans: You can call me RAJESH


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