awakening vs enlightenment

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rajeshpullat
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awakening vs enlightenment

Postby rajeshpullat » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:06 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
the "me" is just a thought

What are you looking for at LU?
clearing doubts regarding awakening..get a better perspective of who i am.....meet like minded people...clearing doubts regarding awakening..get a better perspective of who i am.....meet like minded people...clearing doubts regarding awakening..get a better perspective of who i am.....meet like minded people...

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
clarify my doubts...go to know who i am....meet like minded peopleclearing doubts regarding awakening..get a better perspective of who i am.....meet like minded people...clearing doubts regarding awakening..get a better perspective of who i am.....meet like minded people...

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
7 years of suffering and then an experience of no self

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

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Lucas369
Posts: 266
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby Lucas369 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:54 pm

Hi rajeshpullat,

my name is Luke. Would you like to be called rajeshpullat or by another name?

Sorry for the delay but the forum is quite busy at the moment...
First of all I would ask you to write every day even when there is not a lot to say. Also it is recommended not to watch spiritual videos or read books about spiritual topics during this process, just to keep the focus.

7 years of suffering and then an experience of no self

Tell me more about this experience of no self. I know it is impossible to describe it, but give it a try!

How do you expect it to be - to know that there is no self? Like your experience of no self - but as a permanent state?

After this realization of no-self: How did the self come back? How do you know NOW that it came back? Can you see, hear, feel, smell it??


Please answer as detailed and precise as possible.
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Embrace fear, love disappointment and be the light at the end of the tunnel

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rajeshpullat
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby rajeshpullat » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:46 am

Hi
i think it can we put in words to some extent
anyway it is not some great feeling of great bliss or anything of that sort
when there are no thoughts i can see that there is no me
infact there is no me to see it...but just a feel of presence...just observing without thoughts
when thoughts come back the me also comes back with thoughts
Rajesh

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Lucas369
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby Lucas369 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:28 pm

when thoughts come back the me also comes back with thoughts

How can that be? Thoughts are only thoughts... or is there a 'me' attached to the thoughts?
Which form or shape does it have?
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Embrace fear, love disappointment and be the light at the end of the tunnel

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rajeshpullat
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby rajeshpullat » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:36 am

the sense of me comes with the thoughts...may be there is a me attached to the thoughts

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Lucas369
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby Lucas369 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:05 am

may be there is a me attached to the thoughts

This is what you THINK. But what do you SEE?

What EXACTLY is this 'me'? Is it another thought?
Or a feeling?
Or an imange?

LOOK...
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Embrace fear, love disappointment and be the light at the end of the tunnel

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rajeshpullat
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby rajeshpullat » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:38 am

the ME is just a thought as far as i understand

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Lucas369
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby Lucas369 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:27 pm

the ME is just a thought as far as i understand

I know this seems to be small-minded, but it is important to be extremely accurate here: When you say "...as far as i understand", then that means that the answer comes from "what you understand", in other words from the mind i.e. thoughts. But it is impossible to answer from your understanding / thinking AND from direct experience at the same time!

Here's an example to explain it: If I asked you what color your socks have, than you can THINK and remember that you've put on red socks in the morning. Or you could bend down and LOOK and see DIRECTLY that they are red. Now you may say: So what? It's both the same, in both cases it's the same answer. Yes and no: Yes, with regard to the socks-question this is right.

BUT if I asked you if there is a me attached to the thoughs then you have NEVER really looked at this before. This is as if in all your past life always someone else has put on your socks and he always has TOLD YOU that your socks are red... (Same with the mind telling you all your life that there is a 'me' in charge of everything...) So you can not know if that is true - or if he's just a confidence trickster.... And how do you find it out? By LOOKing directly...

So again:
Is there a me attached to the thoughts?
Or is this 'me' only a thought - and nothing more?
Is there a 'me' attached to another direct perception: feelings, sounds, body sensations...?


Look at your socks and don't believe this bloody fraudster :-)
Do not answer until you are 100% sure!
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Embrace fear, love disappointment and be the light at the end of the tunnel

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Lucas369
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby Lucas369 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:29 pm

Do not answer until you are 100% sure!
Sorry, that was bull****. Please answer even if you're not 100% sure. But really LOOK :-)
If there is resistance to look or if it is too scary please let me know.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Embrace fear, love disappointment and be the light at the end of the tunnel

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rajeshpullat
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby rajeshpullat » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:28 am

hi
there is really no ME
just thoughts, feelings and images going on the screen of awareness like a happening, no seer and seen ...just seeing
Rajesh

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Lucas369
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby Lucas369 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:43 pm

Hi Rajesh,

yes, brilliant!
when thoughts come back the me also comes back with thoughts

So what about this sentence you wrote on Sunday. Is this still true? In which situations does the 'me' come back?
Is this 'me' rather an image or a thought?

7 years of suffering and then an experience of no self

When you look at the story of "your life": Does it belong to a 'someone'?
Is there a main actor?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Embrace fear, love disappointment and be the light at the end of the tunnel

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rajeshpullat
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby rajeshpullat » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:56 pm

Hi
whenever there is a thought the ME comes back
when i look at the story of my life i think main character has always been a thought
Rajesh

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Lucas369
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby Lucas369 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:02 pm

whenever there is a thought the ME comes back
When you look at your thoughts, how do they appear?
They pop up, one at a time. Then there is a gap. Then the next thought comes up.
In the gap I mentioned: Where is the ME?

i think main character has always been a thought
How can a person that is in charge of his life be reduced to a thought? Can you explain this?
You say "i think". As I mentioned earlier answers from knowing (from mind) will not help us at all! What we want to look at is what can not be known, because it is HERE!

So if you look at your thoughts: Where is the person you're talking about?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Embrace fear, love disappointment and be the light at the end of the tunnel

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rajeshpullat
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Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:03 am

Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby rajeshpullat » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:58 am

Hi
the thoughts just popup...i have no control
in the gap between thoughts there is no ME

Your question is:
How can a person that is in charge of his life be reduced to a thought? Can you explain this?
Answer: i am not incharge of my life...it is just a happening...i am the screen on which everything is happening
and whatever is happening is just an illusion
Rajesh

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Lucas369
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Re: awakening vs enlightenment

Postby Lucas369 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:28 pm

Please take a pen and a piece of paper. Then write down for 10 minutes what you are just doing, for example: „I am breathing. I am sitting on a chair. I get up to get sth. to drink“ etc.

After that do the same again for another 10 minutes, but this time you write it down without a doer: "Breathing happens, sitting on a chair, getting up to get me a cup of tea,...“

Finally compare the two versions:
Which version describes best what's really happening?
Which version FEELS to be true?
Is an „I“ or „someone“ needed to make all these things happen?


If you like you can have a closer look at this in your everyday life: when you drive in your car, when you do the washing...
Is there a someone doing all this or is it happening automatically?

PS: Here's a link where the use of the quote-function is explained: https://www.liberationunleashed.com/nat ... ?f=4&t=660
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Embrace fear, love disappointment and be the light at the end of the tunnel


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