An end to seeking possible

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Ilona
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:27 am

Thank you for reply.
So where are you? What are you examining? What is that you are looking for at this time?
Let’s see where you are and take it from there.
Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:22 pm

I am just asking and asking the questions over and over, "who am I", "what is this" "what am I?...etc...waiting for the sense of separateness to go away, or be seen through...or for some kind of illusion/confusion to stop happening. I know I cant stop thoughts, and I am mostly seeing them as mind movies, and not staying attached to whatever comes up.
It occurs that I may be addicted to seeking...resistant to seeing what really is because it is unpleasant to be stuck in this body/mind that is so imperfect and difficult to deal with at times.
Love

Thank you for reply.
So where are you? What are you examining? What is that you are looking for at this time?
Let’s see where you are and take it from there.
Love

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Ilona
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:08 pm

Ok, try asking this: is there I ? Is there sense of separateness?
Where is this sense of separateness?
Which muscular tension informs about separateness?

Illusions don’t stop appearing. Only they are no longer taken for reality. Nothing changes. Only belief drops that something needs to change.

Yes, there can be addiction to seeking.
What do you get from seeking, what is payoff?

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:22 am

Ok, try asking this: is there I ? Is there sense of separateness?
Where is this sense of separateness?
Which muscular tension informs about separateness?
Yes there seems to be tensions...in the head and the guts. I ask and ask and the answer is always no,yet the illusion of separation seems to persist...as does inordinate attachment to the thoughts about self
Illusions don’t stop appearing. Only they are no longer taken for reality. Nothing changes. Only belief drops that something needs to change.
Most of the beliefs are seen through...none can be true, all relative and conceptual.
Yes, there can be addiction to seeking.
What do you get from seeking, what is payoff?
Part of me has come to realize I don't really want to "wake up"
And the seeking keeps this state of affairs so..

I am traveling in Colombia at the moment
Love

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Ilona
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:56 am

You say the answer is always no. But that is not the right answer, the right answer is that which is here before the ‘no’ arises. That empty aware space. See that for the answer. Ask the question again and notice, that space before thoughts come in. That’s the answer. Take that for the answer.

Write what you notice.
This is a video that makes the point.
https://youtu.be/vVfvRetanr0


And tell me also, what do you get from “not waking up”? What is the payoff of living in a dream about separateness and trying to wake up, but not wanting to, really. What do you get from this yo yo game?

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:39 pm

You say the answer is always no. But that is not the right answer, the right answer is that which is here before the ‘no’ arises. That empty aware space. See that for the answer. Ask the question again and notice, that space before thoughts come in. That’s the answer. Take that for the answer.
So, I have been backpacking in Colombia, seeking the company of the wise, the poor, looking for the self, or how to see through the false self. Still winding the gears up with concepts, layers, patterns. All good, Beautiful trip. Sorry I haven't written, stuck in not wanting to repeat the same dumb excuses! :)

The last few days I have been seeing that...the absurdity of all the words, of trying to understand.
It just is. Before the words come in.
The spring of the mind which was coiling, tensing, flexing in trying to understand, seems to have released.
These last couple of days it seems like the unbearable lightness of being is here.
Write what you notice.
This is a video that makes the point.
https://youtu.be/vVfvRetanr0
Noticing everything, the simplicity. No fireworks. Just the snow, taste, food, air, brushing teeth. Everything happens by itself. No overthinking. Wow...so freeing not to have the neuroses. Even if that layer descends again, it is seen through. Thank you for your persistence. Not sure where this is going, doesn't really matter I guess.
And tell me also, what do you get from “not waking up”? What is the payoff of living in a dream about separateness and trying to wake up, but not wanting to, really. What do you get from this yo yo game?
Just a story...I wanted to suffer, felt I deserved it! Wanted to earn it...blah blah blah...it's always been like this. Infinite gratitude to you. It seems when I pause, close my eyes, listen to the silence, what arises is before the thoughts can cling to it. Thoughts are still flowing, but they are not mine, just a process. Feels like the beginning of a different kind of journey, without the burden of carrying the past.
Love
Love to you!

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Ilona
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:36 am

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
So delightful to read your words. I feel that something released. And I have a huge smile on my face.
Now we are talking!
Unbearable lightness, simplicity, freedom... that’s indication that something has really dropped. And it has nothing to do with deserving. :)
This is an opening. A beginning. A fresh start.
Is there any doubt?
If there is, that can be welcomed.
What made it click? Do you remember the moment?

Love and joy your way.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:00 am

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
So delightful to read your words. I feel that something released. And I have a huge smile on my face.
Now we are talking!
Unbearable lightness, simplicity, freedom... that’s indication that something has really dropped. And it has nothing to do with deserving. :)
This is an opening. A beginning. A fresh start.
Is there any doubt?
If there is, that can be welcomed.
What made it click? Do you remember the moment?

Love and joy your way.

Thank you for your smile. Me too. Sometimes I think of you as an entity on the other side of the world behind a computer...but you are actually a real person who smiles!

Yes, simplicity, freedom...somehow the bodily tension and neurotic thoughts that I took to be me...just seems far away...yet it is all still here. All of the thoughts that were always here are here, yet they are not clinging like they did even last week.
Of course there is doubt, thoughts that the restrictiveness will descend again, that a veil will close. Yet still when I pause a moment to listen to the whispers I can still hear and sense that which is before thought, before time and space.
It does feel like in this case the sense of needing to do more work just stopped happening.

All of your questions about why I am clinging to seeking, and whether I am ready to be done, just added up to an insurmountable problem, and that my mind just stopped trying to force an answer and just let it be.
Letting it be is still happening. Not sure about when or it it will stop, or about much of anything, just that the anxiety over the future, and regret about the past, both seem to have been lifted.

Also seems like meditation is happening whenever I pause and reflect. Hoping that it will deepen. But the sense of being awake, being present, is really strong at this time.

What a relief to be a little free from the ego, self consciousness....not really professing anything, just that a momentary grace like the sun coming out after a few days of clouds is here.

Thank You so much for all your patience and attention. Looking forward to seeing where this will go.

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Ilona
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:12 am

Mmm, yummy...
Sounds that a big burden has dropped.
Great thing is that sense of being, presence is always present! No where else but here now, easy to find even if the clouds come. :)

Looking back, what has changed since we started this conversation? What hasn’t? How does ordinary life look now?

Hugs
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:05 pm

Mmm, yummy...
Sounds that a big burden has dropped.
Great thing is that sense of being, presence is always present! No where else but here now, easy to find even if the clouds come. :)
Yes, does feel like something has dropped, a burden, a false sense of self, an anchoring in the suffering. Also feels like I can see the screen behind the mind movies, but only when I pause to concentrate on it. Mostly still life happening as it always does.
Looking back, what has changed since we started this conversation? What hasn’t? How does ordinary life look now?
The seriousness and focus I brought to things seems to have lightened up a little. It is really a very subtle shift and sometimes not noticeable at all. But the sense of urgency of seeking is much lighter now. Not sure what is supposed to happen in this process now, but it seems like it is all a process unfolding, always was and shall always be so.

Hugs
Big hug and love to you.

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Ilona
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:55 pm

Yes, the process is unfolding and it’s interesting to see what happens next.

I just went to the first post you made in sept 2017 and read this
Krishna Consciousness devotees gave me a Bhagavad Gita when i was a teenager, and reading it and looking at the pictures left a deep impression that this world is not all there is. At 17 I had a profound awakening to the oneness, but it didn't stay more than a day. I began trying to recreate that awareness through self guided meditations, concentrations fasting etc. I learned meditation from Sri Chinmoy, then began Zen after reading 4 pillars. A road trip across country took me to communes, Ba-Hai faith, Fundamentalist Christianity, Sufism, Gurdjieff and on and on. I spent time with Osho, Baba Ram Dass and many other teachers through writings and talks. Traveled in Asia and India. It's been 40 years or so of traveling. The last 7 years were spent in Ayahuasca ceremonies, which allowed some purification to begin, leading to Vipassana and daily meditation. When I heard somenon-duality talks I realized that "I" am ripe for letting go of this story and coming into the present. I have been trying to find a teacher ever since.
What a journey. Can you say, you found what you were looking for, “coming into the present”?

And are you ready for the final questions?

:)
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:29 pm

What I can say is, there was an unquenchable thirst for more and more knowledge and experience for many years. Looking more closely at this seeking it seems that the only logical conclusion is that the answer never leaves one, one is made out of the answer, the mystery, that can never be answered by the mind and thoughts alone.

Thoughts are still arising and the love of knowledge and understanding is still present, but when I really sit with the thoughts and start letting go of that tangle of emotions, feelings, memories, expectations etc...the only thing left is what is happening now, in the present moment.

It's not like the past years were an illusion, more like they are all happening in multiple dimensions of the present all at the same time. No words can really touch it. Yet as a former writer it is exciting to try to get closer through words.

Even the process of witnessing thoughts, or witnessing the self, seems to have changed a bit. Who is doing the witnessing. That person cannot really be found. Just a process of arising, energies, perceptions, whatever. Reading Buddhist and Hindu texts like the Dhammapada or the Upanishads, sometimes I'm just going...hmmm... Instead of clinging dogmatically to truths!

There aren't really truths anymore in some sense. Or beliefs....just a set of habits of the body and thoughts that are unwinding and winding up over and over.

So as far as ready? Who knows?...but I can try to answer any questions!


Love


Yes, the process is unfolding and it’s interesting to see what happens next.

I just went to the first post you made in sept 2017 and read this
Krishna Consciousness devotees gave me a Bhagavad Gita when i was a teenager, and reading it and looking at the pictures left a deep impression that this world is not all there is. At 17 I had a profound awakening to the oneness, but it didn't stay more than a day. I began trying to recreate that awareness through self guided meditations, concentrations fasting etc. I learned meditation from Sri Chinmoy, then began Zen after reading 4 pillars. A road trip across country took me to communes, Ba-Hai faith, Fundamentalist Christianity, Sufism, Gurdjieff and on and on. I spent time with Osho, Baba Ram Dass and many other teachers through writings and talks. Traveled in Asia and India. It's been 40 years or so of traveling. The last 7 years were spent in Ayahuasca ceremonies, which allowed some purification to begin, leading to Vipassana and daily meditation. When I heard somenon-duality talks I realized that "I" am ripe for letting go of this story and coming into the present. I have been trying to find a teacher ever since.
What a journey. Can you say, you found what you were looking for, “coming into the present”?

And are you ready for the final questions?

:)

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Ilona
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:35 pm

Ah, that describes this nicely. Thank you for putting it in words.
And here are the questions. Have fun with them.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it ufully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready.

Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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