An end to seeking possible

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:35 pm

Lovely! Yes, it’s quite strange- nothing changed, but everything looks different :)
Looking back to before we started this conversation, what are the biggest noticeable differences?
What has changed, what hasn’t?
Are your expectations met?
What else do you notice?

Hugs and love!
Noticing lots of things now. Nothing much has changed yet my perspective has changed on them. I can see reactions forming in my brain-thoughts to different things and have a sense of distance from it.

All of the stories are spinning just as strongly, yet I see it's not me. Just happenings, like a little windup toy, winding down. Not like I'm watching from afar...kind of hard to explain. The feelings from the first couple of days or looking deeply into people and things seem to have faded a bit too.

When I close my eyes and sit quietly there is a different quality of spaciousness. Like it is, and was, always there. Also, anxiety, doubt, self made suffering, seems like I am seeing that differently too. Anything having to do with conceptualizing and labeling seems to have receded a bit.

At the same time, I have no expectations that this "State" will last, nor do I really want it to. Doesn't seem to matter what happens anymore, all is as it is.

It kind of reminds me of a childhood dream where I caught a beautiful chicken and put it under my arm. When I woke up I was so disappointed that the chicken wasn't still there. I wake up every day somewhat forgetful, then remember that I'm not what I thought I was anymore. Not quite sure what I am though, either, probably nothing, emptiness, taking shape in this vessel of a body-mind, for the time being. Even when and if I forget this, it will still be the case, so I do see that bit too.

As to what's not different, I think I expected waves of bliss, angels with trumpets, hopefully some kind of psychic powers. Not really, but I expected more different things to happen. Over the last week I had rainbows and waterfalls...so that was quite sufficient. Just what is, is enough.

I also expected that I could get out of meditating, but I am finding it helpful in grounding myself, as usual.
So I can't really say that I went through some kind of gateless gate, or that anything has really changed. I will see if this perspective shift is lasting.

Much love to you and thank you for your continued efforts to help others, and me, see!

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Ilona
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:22 am

Nice!
So I can't really say that I went through some kind of gateless gate, or that anything has really changed. I will see if this perspective shift is lasting.
Yeah, why would anything change if everything always was and is as it is. Nothing needs to change. It only looks different. The story that is being narrated has lost its grip. That’s all. And yet that is profound change. The implications of this are yet to be realised and seeing deepens.

Good thing- it’s all so ordinary and very obvious.

Is there any doubt at all?
Was there ever a separate self in charge of a little piece of life?

And what about free will and choice? Can you write how you see that now.

Love!
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:51 am

Nice!
So I can't really say that I went through some kind of gateless gate, or that anything has really changed. I will see if this perspective shift is lasting.
Yeah, why would anything change if everything always was and is as it is. Nothing needs to change. It only looks different. The story that is being narrated has lost its grip. That’s all. And yet that is profound change. The implications of this are yet to be realised and seeing deepens.

Good thing- it’s all so ordinary and very obvious.

Is there any doubt at all?
Was there ever a separate self in charge of a little piece of life?

And what about free will and choice? Can you write how you see that now.

Love!
All of the pains, heartaches, indigestion, tiredness...all are still there...yet it just seems to be "happening" now, to this "I" story person. What is quite profound is that whenever I think of seeking, or being on a kind of path...i just kind of shrug and think, that story is over...it has come to a conclusion. There is no more I to seek and find anything. All of the memories, hopes for the future, and labels, stories about what is happening, just seem to be part of a story...that is all happening as part of this nowness. The story of I is also happening, just that it is a story. Story says this is a trick. It is too simple, not what I expected...it's just a kind of detachment. I was hoping I could at least make my bed with telekinesis or something. :)
Driving in the car...a great test of the personality...i see the thoughts arising and see it as a story, one facet of a personality that doesn't really serve a purpose anymore, so maybe it will organically fall away.

As to a separate self, how could there ever be one...this manifestation is just coming from the everything, how could it be separate...it may be part of evolution for us to perceive separation, a kind of protective mechanism for the body, some kind of survival response...who knows...but what is separate. If the story is in the mind, and the mind is a facet of a larger universe, how could there be separation. The profound blissful states I experienced when younger were all part of the manifestation, and the illusion of separation clung to those memories. But now I see those memories as all manifesting in each moment anew.
Yet there is no bliss, no extra insight...at least not in a tangible way...just this recognition of what has always been the case.

Free will and choice...story says yes they exist...but if all is one manifestation, the same mechanisms that created the multiverse allowed the creation of the story of free will and choice. It's just another piece of the story. Maybe the pearl in the oyster is the discomfort and dissatisfaction that seemed to be the impetus for a search...and now that same discomfort has led to a recognition of what is.

Thank you and Love...

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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:07 pm

Beautiful!
All of the memories, hopes for the future, and labels, stories about what is happening, just seem to be part of a story...that is all happening as part of this nowness. The story of I is also happening, just that it is a story. Story says this is a trick. It is too simple, not what I expected...it's just a kind of detachment. I was hoping I could at least make my bed with telekinesis or something. :)
Yes, it’s not what was expected! How could this be so simple. And yet it’s so obvious when it’s seen. Haha about telekinesis. I’d love some teleportation powers to come with it, but.. none yet..
there are some nice aftereffects which mostly is stillness and spaciousness, openness to what is.

When you look at other people now, how does it look? Are there separate entities running the bodies? Describe what is true in your experience.

Hugs and love!
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:54 pm

Beautiful!
All of the memories, hopes for the future, and labels, stories about what is happening, just seem to be part of a story...that is all happening as part of this nowness. The story of I is also happening, just that it is a story. Story says this is a trick. It is too simple, not what I expected...it's just a kind of detachment. I was hoping I could at least make my bed with telekinesis or something. :)
Yes, it’s not what was expected! How could this be so simple. And yet it’s so obvious when it’s seen. Haha about telekinesis. I’d love some teleportation powers to come with it, but.. none yet..
there are some nice aftereffects which mostly is stillness and spaciousness, openness to what is.

When you look at other people now, how does it look? Are there separate entities running the bodies? Describe what is true in your experience.

Hugs and love!
One thing I have noticed is that the sense of struggle, frustration, and tension to "understand" intellectually, all of it seems to have ceased. There is a relaxation. Coupled with that is the thought "What happens now?" or what do I do? My life is still filled with the same daily tasks, routine, chores etc, as before.

Basically it is as simple as what you mentioned many times in this thread, when you stop believing in Santa Claus he doesn't go away...you realize he never was, just in imagination, just like the sense of a separate self. Just recognition, nothing special. Seems like I was working so hard to see something right in front of my face all the time. Still not sure this is really "it." Maybe just a waystation.

When I look at people sometimes I am seeing awakeness, enlightened beings, all part of "this"...and I see that they often don't recognize their own awakeness. They are trapped in their own stories...which is endlessly fascinating in it's own way. It's like the universe is viewing itself through all these different facets.

Also, sometimes, I am seeing the labeling happen, judging, evaluating, storying about people, and I can take a step back and recognize that it isn't useful to be in that position, and see through it easily.

Other times I am looking directly at awakeness, like it was hiding from me before as a kind of game. But there is no "me" to hide from...

Still, surrendering is happening....many of the ideas and concepts that I use to define myself by are no longer useful and are sort of falling away.

So much love to you, and thanks.

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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:15 pm

One thing I have noticed is that the sense of struggle, frustration, and tension to "understand" intellectually, all of it seems to have ceased. There is a relaxation. Coupled with that is the thought "What happens now?" or what do I do? My life is still filled with the same daily tasks, routine, chores etc, as before.
Great, the drop of interest to understand shows that something shifted. And the routine, ordinary life continues, as before. You know the saying- before enlightenment chop wood, carry water, after, chop wood carry water. It’s all going on, as always, why would that change. Idea of ownership of a little piece of life drops, so what.

Can you say with a big fat yes, it’s clear, that the i as a separate self, as it thought to be has been seen to be an illusion?
Is there any doubt about the nature of this I?
Are you ready for the final questions, or there is a subtle ‘yes, but...’?

Let’s see where you are.

Love back.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:18 pm

One thing I have noticed is that the sense of struggle, frustration, and tension to "understand" intellectually, all of it seems to have ceased. There is a relaxation. Coupled with that is the thought "What happens now?" or what do I do? My life is still filled with the same daily tasks, routine, chores etc, as before.
Great, the drop of interest to understand shows that something shifted. And the routine, ordinary life continues, as before. You know the saying- before enlightenment chop wood, carry water, after, chop wood carry water. It’s all going on, as always, why would that change. Idea of ownership of a little piece of life drops, so what.

Can you say with a big fat yes, it’s clear, that the i as a separate self, as it thought to be has been seen to be an illusion?
Is there any doubt about the nature of this I?
Are you ready for the final questions, or there is a subtle ‘yes, but...’?

Let’s see where you are.

Love back.
Ordinary life continues. It is a gift. I wouldn't want to leave it , yet. Lots of wood left to chop.
And daily identification with the sense of self continues, some days more or less, completely forgetting that it isn't me...that this is a story. Other days sitting in stillness, awakeness appearing...kind of like moods...ever changing, like the sky...

I think I've seen what I am not...not this story anymore, all just happening...yet I don't see what "I" am...everything and nothing, all at the same time, awakeness, awareness, god, whatever...It is still a concept. There is still a subtle sense that I have some control over this, that there is something I can do to make it fall into place, some practice or action.

The story of my life, childhood, youth, adulthood, love, loss, all seems so real, like it happened to me, and in a real sense it obviously did, and also obviously noone exists separate from all there is, so this is a kind of dream.

I am mostly sitting still though and getting the sense of "spaciousness" and seeing that the apparent separation from life is gone, it was all part of a story.

Still processing the story. The thoughts haven't really returned in the sense of causing torment and suffering, but some inquiry is still happening, even if it is part of the story. Sorry for not making too much sense.

So I have to say there is still a yes, but...

Love

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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:52 pm

You reply makes sense to me, no worries.
I think I've seen what I am not...not this story anymore, all just happening...yet I don't see what "I" am...everything and nothing, all at the same time, awakeness, awareness, god, whatever...It is still a concept. There is still a subtle sense that I have some control over this, that there is something I can do to make it fall into place, some practice or action.
What i is? What question wants to put a label and conceptualise this awareness, aliveness, god, everything and nothing.. but does this sense of being, aliveness, stillness, spaciousness need a name?
Focus on the sense of being, see that word being is a verb, not an entity. Does this presence need an identity? Call it a carrot or a shoe, does it matter?
Being is,
Aliveness is,
God, love, presence, zen, Buddha mind, stillness, whatever name you put, that word is not going to define the mystery of existence.

What is that you need to do in order to be?

Is there something you expect to fall into place? What is not yet in the place? What is there to understand, right here right now?

Much love..
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:08 pm

You reply makes sense to me, no worries.
I think I've seen what I am not...not this story anymore, all just happening...yet I don't see what "I" am...everything and nothing, all at the same time, awakeness, awareness, god, whatever...It is still a concept. There is still a subtle sense that I have some control over this, that there is something I can do to make it fall into place, some practice or action.
What i is? What question wants to put a label and conceptualise this awareness, aliveness, god, everything and nothing.. but does this sense of being, aliveness, stillness, spaciousness need a name?


Been struggling to answer this one. I know all the right non-dual answers. No, it doesn't need a name. Yes aliveness is always here. Yes I see through the story. Seems like in the last few days, identification with the story has gotten stronger, the thoughts that seemed distant and now in the foreground again. But when I pause the stillness is also there.
Focus on the sense of being, see that word being is a verb, not an entity. Does this presence need an identity? Call it a carrot or a shoe, does it matter?
Being is,
Aliveness is,
God, love, presence, zen, Buddha mind, stillness, whatever name you put, that word is not going to define the mystery of existence.
I know that the story is just a story, that life is complete as it is. Yet I am still waiting for some kind of state change...still clinging in total fear of what I already see, hear, feel, know...that there can't ever be separation from life.
What is that you need to do in order to be?
Don't need to do anything, or be anything, no more shoulds...should haves....it is all a kind of perfection...even with what the story says are flaws....

Is there something you expect to fall into place? What is not yet in the place? What is there to understand, right here right now?
Right, the wanter of things falling into place is a story, but it's still the only story I know...I'm just being for a while, lets see what happens.

Much love..
Times a million to you.

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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:57 pm

I know that the story is just a story, that life is complete as it is. Yet I am still waiting for some kind of state change...still clinging in total fear of what I already see, hear, feel, know...that there can't ever be separation from life.
What kind of state change? Happy ever after? Sorry, but that’s not going to happen. The patterns that run are running without you running them. They can be seen, they can be noticed and allowed to be as they are. Resisting only creates tension. Resisting is tension itself.

What is this fear about? What can be lost if there really is no such separate entity in charge?
Look behind the fear, there is something still being protected. Find out what is that? What is that is hiding behind the fear?

Don’t worry, nothing real can be threatened. Nothing real disappears or gets lost. Only a belief drops and that’s not such a big deal, really.

Do you trust that life is happening by itself and knows better than you what happens?


There might be an expectation of all being light and easy if you see through the illusion. So the mind is looking for that shift of state. But it’s not about a state. It’s about knowing. Just like you know that Santa and batman is fiction. You know they are imagined. No state shifts because of knowing that. You just know that fantasy characters are not real. And so is the character peter. Imagined. No two people have the same image of peter in their head. It’s a made up story. Can you see that the character is not here and never was here as a manager of what happens in the story? Yet story continues, but who is there to own it?

Hugs.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:58 am

I know that the story is just a story, that life is complete as it is. Yet I am still waiting for some kind of state change...still clinging in total fear of what I already see, hear, feel, know...that there can't ever be separation from life.
What kind of state change? Happy ever after? Sorry, but that’s not going to happen. The patterns that run are running without you running them. They can be seen, they can be noticed and allowed to be as they are. Resisting only creates tension. Resisting is tension itself.
There is still a bit of an unresolved paradox. When the story notices that the story is one of an unfulfilled person, who is still carrying unresolved emotional baggage which is weighing down the body...the story says that therapies, practices, medecines...can help resolve the story. It isn't as much resistance as the story continuing...there is pain for example, and some kinds of healing can maybe ease the pain, even though it is known that only the character in a story is feeling the pain.
What is this fear about? What can be lost if there really is no such separate entity in charge?
Look behind the fear, there is something still being protected. Find out what is that? What is that is hiding behind the fear?

Still asking...still looking. I see that what is behind the fear is something, nothing, that cannot be afraid, cannot be defiled...it is out of time and space and concepts...
Don’t worry, nothing real can be threatened. Nothing real disappears or gets lost. Only a belief drops and that’s not such a big deal, really.
No longer worried...I do see that nothing is lost...really what I am waiting for is for thoughts to drop off again...I think there was an initial space of real relief from thoughts, and since then they have sort of crept in, and it is taking a real conscious effort to let them go again. But I do also see that this is all part of the story! Another paradox, and holding the paradox is the thing. It is all a great mystery that can't be solved. I'm waiting for the rational mind to short circuit again, like koan practice.
Do you trust that life is happening by itself and knows better than you what happens?
Yes, I do trust that I am part of a process that moves by itself, that the sense of separation is an illusion, and I can see beyond it, sometimes.
There might be an expectation of all being light and easy if you see through the illusion. So the mind is looking for that shift of state. But it’s not about a state. It’s about knowing. Just like you know that Santa and batman is fiction. You know they are imagined. No state shifts because of knowing that. You just know that fantasy characters are not real. And so is the character peter. Imagined. No two people have the same image of peter in their head. It’s a made up story. Can you see that the character is not here and never was here as a manager of what happens in the story? Yet story continues, but who is there to own it?
Hugs.
No one owns the story, no one owns anything, that which is temporary passes away, yet awakeness, life, continues, inseparable, indescribable. I am thankful for the heaviness, the aches and pains, that make me feel alive...the sense of liberation, seeing the beauty in non-beauty.
Thank you again for persisting with me.. Love.

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:29 pm

Still thinking, pondering, cogitating...but the quality of it has changed. There is a sense of openness, and understanding...life just goes on. All of the aches and pains, all of the failures and successes, are still the parameters of this life.

But I see through it all as well. Just part of a story. The sense of "I" that existed before, there is a distance from it...yet the patterns still repeat over and over, the dissatisfaction and restlessness....those were the parts I hoped would go away. There is also a sense of purposelessness. Well these are mostly psychological problems I guess, all in the story. Having very little to do with what is, which is undefilable, beyond words....

Still feels like there is unfinished business here...still inquiring and seeking continues in the story....

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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:12 am

I hear you. The quality of seeking has changed but the process hasn’t completed itself yet. Here is a good question to ask- what is that does now want to rest? What is that is not ready to rest?
Write what you find out.

Trust the process.
Sending hugs
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:27 pm

I hear you. The quality of seeking has changed but the process hasn’t completed itself yet. Here is a good question to ask- what is that does now want to rest? What is that is not ready to rest?
Write what you find out.

Trust the process.
Sending hugs
What wants to rest is already at rest...the spaciousness and awareness...what doesn't want to rest is the story...about a me...who doesn't want to give up controlling and directing the story, taking credit, etc...

I see that it must be a story as it changes day to day and sometimes goes away...but it is persistent.

By the way, "I", the body, the person...whatever, am taking a three week trip to Peru next week. Part of my human story is going with my people to the amazon...it will be an adventure. Lots to be amazed by which is so much fun.

I will write as I can, and of course the inquiry is continuing, however whenever I phrase it like this, another part chimes in that the inquiry is already over and self is seen through.

Although...there isn't really clarity...
What needs to be clarified if what is is already here? I don't really know.
Gratitude and Love! To You.

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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:02 pm

Wow, going to Peru! That’s great, what an adventure. I guess you will be taking some natural medicines?
what doesn't want to rest is the story...about a me...who doesn't want to give up controlling and directing the story, taking credit, etc...
Is it ok for that story to continue? Or are you wishing for it to stop?
What can a story do? Is a story about controlling in control of what is happening?

The story is happening. Ok. But do you still believe it? Do you believe that the character in the story makes the story happen the way he wants? How about batman, is he is control of how story about the batman goes? Would batman be upset if story goes not the way he wants it to go? Or it’s all more fiction about fiction?

Is story something solid, or thoughts about thoughts about thoughts?
Is there a true story?
And what can a story do, actually?
:)

Let me know what you find out about this story telling and believing in it.
Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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