An end to seeking possible

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Ilona
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Thu May 03, 2018 9:21 pm

Impossible for me to just be in the now without them, or maybe I just pay attention to them in a way that is unhelpful.
Hm, very interesting. How is that you fall out of the now? What do you mean by it’s impossible to be in the now without stories?
Where do these stories happen? In the past, in the future or in imagination?

Imagine you are sitting under a tree watching sunset. Close eyes for a few minutes and see that image, with full on detail. See the colours, hear sounds, feel the wind. Notice that all this is in imagination. Not real.
Does imagining happen in the now or out of it?

Can you see that there is a difference between imagined and real, by real I mean that which is actually happening.
Focus attention on the sensation, sounds, colours that are present. Does this disappear if you think of something else? Or is this always here, obvious and actual?

Please try to get out of now and tell me how you do it.

:)
Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Sat May 05, 2018 8:36 pm

Impossible for me to just be in the now without them, or maybe I just pay attention to them in a way that is unhelpful.
Hm, very interesting. How is that you fall out of the now? What do you mean by it’s impossible to be in the now without stories?
Where do these stories happen? In the past, in the future or in imagination?
So your statement makes me realize that all imaginings, dreams, daydreams, stories in my head of the past or future, all are taking place in the now. Yes even imagination is in the now. I feel checkmated again. It is impossible to not be in the now. Even when I think I am falling out of the moment and into imaginings, it is just another story happening in the mind in the eternal present. It just seems like I am grasping onto these stories about not being present.
Imagine you are sitting under a tree watching sunset. Close eyes for a few minutes and see that image, with full on detail. See the colors, hear sounds, feel the wind. Notice that all this is in imagination. Not real.
Does imagining happen in the now or out of it?
Haha, I see your point...again all imaginings are happening now. Stories of childhood, or hopes for the future...all are being generated from some subconscious force in this very moment. It is a kind of revelation to be able to recognize that, so thank you.
Can you see that there is a difference between imagined and real, by real I mean that which is actually happening.
Focus attention on the sensation, sounds, colours that are present. Does this disappear if you think of something else? Or is this always here, obvious and actual?
Present moment is always here, whether my attention is focused on it or not.
Nothing appears or disappears into or out of it, all is just arising from right here. Actuality is always here and now. Even wishing for things to be different is just a kind of thought pattern arising in the now.
Please try to get out of now and tell me how you do it.
At this moment I cannot get out of the now.
:)
Much love.
Thanks and love to you too.

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Ilona
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Mon May 07, 2018 10:49 pm

Great looking.
Tell me what is that wants things to be different?
What is that wants to control how life should go?
Is this something you do or it happens on its own?
Does wanting things to be different help? Does wanting grant the outcome?
How does it feel to want something and not see it happening?
What would life be like without wanting things to be different?

Describe with whole honesty how you see now.

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Wed May 09, 2018 1:03 pm

Great looking.
Tell me what is that wants things to be different?
The story, the part of the personality construct that still believes it can control life, is the only thing that wants it to be different...I don't claim it as me anymore, but I still give attention to it as though it is me...trying to let go of that feeling, that this construct of ideas, beliefs, automatic reactions, is the only me.
What is that wants to control how life should go?
Not me, just some automated programmed responses from past conditioning, wants to control everything.
Is this something you do or it happens on its own?
I'm not really "doing" anything anymore, just playing out the story...distraction and identifying with the personality, feelings of separation, all are happening, but I don't really believe in the story anymore...just like Santa Claus!
At the same time, nothing has changed or shifted, that may be part of the story, that something should or could shift.
Does wanting things to be different help? Does wanting grant the outcome?
If anything, the wanting is keeping me in the story...I know I'm not out of the present, that awareness of everything is happening all the time, yet it still feels like the story, labeling, words, reactiveness, is running things.
Trying to let it all go....I am practicing the exercise of thanking all of the emotions, fear, stubbornness...for their help and inviting them to retire.
How does it feel to want something and not see it happening?
Feels sad and frustrating...like the whole exercise is just another thought experiment, or belief system. On a larger scale in my life, all the disappointments, suffering and fears seem to be so heavy that there will never be any cessation...just brief moments of happiness constantly shifting and dependent on time and moods.
What would life be like without wanting things to be different?
Seems like it would be perfect, to live without anticipating the future or living in imagination...also without idealizing or regretting the past...just living in the present.
Describe with whole honesty how you see now.
Sending love
May you be happy! Love to you too.

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Ilona
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Thu May 10, 2018 9:58 pm

Let’s look a bit closer how does a story believe that it can control anything? Is it the story itself that wants to be different?

Is it the narrator that wants the story to be different?
Is the narrator in charge of how life goes, or does he describe what is happening?

You can look at a sports game and see that the players are in the field, chasing ball. Then there is a narrator that tells the listeners what is happening in the game. Does the narrator control the ball and the players?

What effect does the narrator have in the game? On the listeners?

What effect the narrator ‘in the head’ has over what is happening? Over the listener? What is that the narrator is talking to? Who is listening?

Investigate here and describe fully what you find out about the narrator and the story of wanting things to be different.

Hugs and love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Thu May 17, 2018 1:40 am

Let’s look a bit closer how does a story believe that it can control anything? Is it the story itself that wants to be different?
You are right as usual... :) It isn't the story that believes it can control anything or wants it to be different. Seems to be another script within the story...that anywhere but here is better. Just running on imagining the future and remembering the past, all happening in the now.
Is it the narrator that wants the story to be different?
Is the narrator in charge of how life goes, or does he describe what is happening?
The narrator is part of the story...it seems, just thoughts unceasingly putting words to everything.
You can look at a sports game and see that the players are in the field, chasing ball. Then there is a narrator that tells the listeners what is happening in the game. Does the narrator control the ball and the players?
The narrator can't control anything in this analogy...
What effect does the narrator have in the game? On the listeners?
No effect
What effect the narrator ‘in the head’ has over what is happening? Over the listener? What is that the narrator is talking to? Who is listening?
Right, another great point I have overlooked...the narrator doesn't control life, even though I have mistaken that voice in my head for myself. It is really not me. I haven't been able to find me. Just a sense that aliveness and awareness is permeating everything. And a sense that is slowly getting less sticky, that I am separated from it by this framework of thoughts and "personality."
Investigate here and describe fully what you find out about the narrator and the story of wanting things to be different.

Many childhood memories are coming back, about the beginnings of the feelings that things should be different. Difficulties which led to avoidance, denial, contractions and withholding of feelings, etc...they seem to be accompanied by physical sensations at the moment. Not really sure I'm doing it right, or where it is heading, but things are subtly different.
Hugs and love.
Love to you and many thanks for continuing this conversation.

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Ilona
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Fri May 18, 2018 12:45 am

Not really sure I'm doing it right, or where it is heading, but things are subtly different.
You can’t fail at this :) there is no one here to fail or gain or benefit. It’s heading towards resolution, that’s only way out of this. And it’s just happening. Can you see that it is not up to you what is happening? And that is not powerlessness. Quite the opposite- freedom. No need to play a controller. No one is in charge.
You can check right here right now, what is controlling this seeing- the display of colour, the sounds, the sensations, thoughts? Check if there is a puppet master that pulls the strings so you move along?

What moves the body?
What moves the narrator?
Is there a grand manager at home?

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Sat May 19, 2018 3:53 pm

Not really sure I'm doing it right, or where it is heading, but things are subtly different.
You can’t fail at this :) there is no one here to fail or gain or benefit. It’s heading towards resolution, that’s only way out of this. And it’s just happening. Can you see that it is not up to you what is happening? And that is not powerlessness. Quite the opposite- freedom. No need to play a controller. No one is in charge.
Thank you for the kind and reassuring words...the only thing happening for me these days is a kind of letting go...seems like beliefs and stories are falling away...there is a kind of nausea, but rather than worrying about it I'm just letting it work through.
The story that there is still an I, in charge, of everything, is still there...sometimes I'm able to see that it's just a story...
Awareness of witnessing the whole process is there also, but not sure who this witness is...probably not me.
You can check right here right now, what is controlling this seeing- the display of colour, the sounds, the sensations, thoughts? Check if there is a puppet master that pulls the strings so you move along?
Being aliveness is just happening more often now. When I look at a field of grass, sometimes in the classroom, it is all seen as alive. Not sure there is a puppet master, but the framework of thoughts labeling everything still happens as well. This is more automatic reaction, conditioned responses, don't think it can stop, but it doesn't bother me.
What moves the body?
What moves the narrator?
Is there a grand manager at home?
I don't think anything does. It is just happening now.
Makes me think of a symphony, the conductor is there, so are all the players, sort of in sync...even though there are roles they are not independent.

Sending love
Love to you too!

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Ilona
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Wed May 23, 2018 12:46 pm

Sweet! The process is happening well :)
Awareness of witnessing the whole process is there also, but not sure who this witness is...probably not me.
And is there a witness at all? Or witnessing is happening as another arising?
Is there a breather at all or breathing is happening?
Is there a rainer, or raining is happening?
See how language presumes a subject, the doer, where all is simply happening.

What is that is witnessing? And is noticing something apart from what is noticed?
In the knowing, is there’s knower and the known? Or just the known?

Explore this and write soon!
Much love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Sat May 26, 2018 4:34 am

Sweet! The process is happening well :)
Awareness of witnessing the whole process is there also, but not sure who this witness is...probably not me.
And is there a witness at all? Or witnessing is happening as another arising?
Is there a breather at all or breathing is happening?
Is there a rainer, or raining is happening?
See how language presumes a subject, the doer, where all is simply happening.
Sort of seeing that the idea of a me separate from everything, from life, is kind of like a dream. A dream of a me that cares about everything and is trying to control everything. Last weekend it seemed like there was a kind of shift where all of the struggles just sort of came together into the present moment and it all seemed so clear. This inquiry process, meditation, and medicine work all seemed to have a role in the shifting into a different perspective.

...the witness is part of the process which appears to be a "me"...so are the thoughts of a past and future. All of it is just manifesting constantly. Somehow the fear surrounding this process, and identification with the thoughts, seems to be slipping away.
What is that is witnessing? And is noticing something apart from what is noticed?
In the knowing, is there’s knower and the known? Or just the known?
The selfish, craving, desiring persona that I identify as an "I" wants to hold onto this noticer, the witness, and knower...but deep down that seems like conditioning and reacting and I am letting go of ans surrendering that kind of witholding.
Looking inside seems to be happening on its own, most of the time, and labeling thoughts seems to have settled down a bit, but everything is also changing constantly now.
Explore this and write soon!
Much love
Love to you, may you be happy!

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Ilona
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Sun May 27, 2018 5:34 pm

Beautiful.
Is there a gate to cross?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Thu May 31, 2018 4:50 pm

Beautiful.
Is there a gate to cross?

At this moment I am not finding a gate! Just awareness seeing awareness! It is all very funny and profound at the same time...spent all morning marveling at my students faces and seeing recognition in them!

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Ilona
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:22 pm

Haha, sound that you found the gatelessness.

Is there I to cross anything?
Is there I that can awaken?
Was there ever?


:)
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Cyclewave
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Cyclewave » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:12 pm

Haha, sound that you found the gatelessness.

Is there I to cross anything?
Is there I that can awaken?
Was there ever?
:)
There is a stillness that i didn't seem to recognize before because my mind and thoughts were spinning wordgames. Just sort of woke up this way a few days ago. Still waiting to see if it will pass. Some kind of separation is also not here at the moment. The thoughts keep coming but there is a distance from them now, like little automations winding down demanding attention, which can be given or not. But yet everything is also unchanged as well. Weird. Let's see what happens.
A million thank you's and love!

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Ilona
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Re: An end to seeking possible

Postby Ilona » Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:30 pm

Lovely! Yes, it’s quite strange- nothing changed, but everything looks different :)
Looking back to before we started this conversation, what are the biggest noticeable differences?
What has changed, what hasn’t?
Are your expectations met?
What else do you notice?

Hugs and love!
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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