Plé

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Fionn
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Plé

Postby Fionn » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:57 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?

That the sense of I, me or mine is an illusion......

What are you looking for at LU?

When I listen to podcasts or video clips discussing awakening from the illusion of self I feel a great affinity or sense of oneness at what is being spoken however as soon as the podcast or video is finished the sense of intunement seems to disappear.....

What do you expect from a guided conversation?

To receive help and support to see beyond the illusion of 'self' and not just have just an intellectual understand as explained in the previous paragraph.
I've tried working/questioning myself on this over many years without much success other than gaining the intellectual understanding I wrote of earlier......

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?

I've done spiritual practice over many years and while I've had many experiences of that silent space of the oneness of all there is always this sense of me doing my practice...,,

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?

10

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Ilona
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Re: Plé

Postby Ilona » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:53 pm

Hi Fionn,
Welcome to the forum. We can have a conversation. All I ask for is complete honesty and writing from your experience alone.
It's a good idea to write at least once a day. This is your processs and all I can do is hold hand and keep you focused.

So let's start.
Can you describe the sense of self in full detail. Where is it felt, when is it felt, what informs you that it's a sense of self and not a sense of muscular tension or resistance?
Does it come and go? Is the sense of self here now?

Just write in full as you see it.

Kind regards.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Fionn
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Re: Plé

Postby Fionn » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:19 pm

Thanks Ilona for your reply. I'm so grateful to you for this opportunity.
The sense of self is felt in the body, it's particularly felt when I'm active and doing - like right now the self is thinking and writing a response to your questions and sends a message to my hands to set out the words of the response in a coherent and structured way so that my response will be understood. When I want to go for a walk a similar process occurs, the self prepares by putting on warm clothes during cold weather and light clothes during warm weather, then decides a route and off I go, body moving on the chosen way.
This sense of self does come and go - it goes when I'm in deep conversation, when I'm alone and in the silence of meditation, during happy and sad occasions, when seeing a beautiful landscape, or when listening or reading others describing this sense of no self. When I recognise these moments that's when resistance arises, a refusal or tension to acknowledge the absence of self. As I write my reply the sense of self is very much here as described, yet at the same time since I began writing there's a sense of something more than this body and mind a silence is also here.
I hope I've answered all your questions Thank you again for taking this time with me.
Kindest regards
Fionn

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Ilona
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Re: Plé

Postby Ilona » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:28 pm

Good start, thank you.
What is the sense of self made of?
Is it a thought, a feeling, a sensation, a label, a colour, a sound, a taste, a smell, a sensation of the skin?
Is it separate from life itself?
Are you somehow in control of this sense or it appears and goes automatically?
And is life happening to a sense of self?

Spend some time with these and look really close.
Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Fionn
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Re: Plé

Postby Fionn » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:35 pm

Hi Ilona
Thanks again for this. I found your questions really searching and I'm not sure if I can answer them all.

For me the self is a flow of energy, a force, a sensation, a feeling and yes these descriptions would be labels. However what comes up then is a question - who is it that is making these distinctions, doing this labelling? - is this the mind of self and then the question what is mind and is it that mind forms and then speaks/writes these words? It's all rather confusing as another question arises - who is this that is confused - are these just all thoughts of the self
I don't see the self as separate from life - and no I'm not in control of this sense of self. Again the question arises who or what is making these distinctions, are they all just thoughts of mind or are they the self? I don't know......
Much love
Fionn

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Ilona
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Re: Plé

Postby Ilona » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:45 pm

Good looking.
Would you say that life force energy is something that you make flow or it's on by default?
Can you turn the energy on and off at will?
Is being (verb) something you do or it just here, always on?

Question who is not a good question to ask, it assumes a subject, just because language requires a subject. The question says there must be someone identifiable that is doing this. Ask instead, what question, what is that is reading there words?
Is there a reader besides reading happening, in experience right now? Is reading happening it's own or are you doing it.
Is there i?

Focus on these questions and again write what feels true.
Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Fionn
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Re: Plé

Postby Fionn » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:59 pm

Thank you so much Ilona for helping me. Here's my reply to your questions.....
Life force energy is on all the time even when I'm not consciously aware of it and no it's not possible to turn it on and off at will. Being isn't something I do it is always here even when I'm not consciously aware of it - It feels like the life force energy and being are one and the same, I presume they/it doesn't go anywhere when I'm asleep as when I wake up there it is.
The life force energy of the eyes is reading the words, so the life force is the reader and yet there is a feeling that It's just reading that's taking place but then there is another feeling that in order for reading to take place there must be a reader.....I'm unable to distinguish and say which one is the truth....and then is there an I - it seems like there is....however is the felt sense of an I really the life force energy or being and not personal - could this mean that the felt sense of I is just an idea, a thought.........I'll have to sit with these questions ....they are making me feel vulnerable....
I wrote the above last night after receiving your last communication and felt I was on the cusp of a breakthrough, but after the day the felt sense of self/I seems to be stronger than ever.....
Much love
Fionn

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Ilona
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Re: Plé

Postby Ilona » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:13 am

Thank you very much for writing with honesty.
Don't expect any sense to disappear. Just watch what is arising and passing.
Yes, sense of being, aliveness, presence, being aware, all these words point to the same thing, that which is underneath all labels. That which IS. Here now, always.

Now look at a tree or a house plant. Is it more correct to say that life is happening to the plant/tree or life is happening, appearing as a plant/tree? Is life happening for the plant or plant is a form of life happening? Does plant need to do anything in order to grow, to evolve?

Turn this to different forms, see if life is happening to or as a human? To or as character fionn? To or as body sensations? To or as emotions?
Check what is true in your experience.

Write what you notice
Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Fionn
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Re: Plé

Postby Fionn » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:23 pm

Again so much thanks to you Ilona, I'm truly grateful for this.

I had to read your questions a couple of times in a attempt to distinguish between 'happening to' and happening as' it was clear that a plant/tree does not need to do anything to grow/evolve other than being a plant/tree.
With further looking I began to see that life is happening as a plant/tree, as a human, as the character Fionn, as body sensations, as thoughts, as feelings, as desires, as emotions and that life is not happening to anything.
So can it be said then that life is as all that's happening and appearing in the here and now.....the energy/flow called life includes everything.
I don't know where to go from here, I'm a bit lost.
Much love
Fionn

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Ilona
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Re: Plé

Postby Ilona » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:38 pm

Yes, all is happening as.
Is there i as a separate from life entity?
Is there an i that is in charge of it's tiny piece of life, managing, controlling what is happening?
Is there a doer, a thinker, that has free will of its own and acts independently of circumstances, situation and life happening?

Is there a sense of separateness from life? Or that sense is too, life form appearing?

Look into it and write what feels true, we will take one step at a time..

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Fionn
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Re: Plé

Postby Fionn » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:58 pm

Dear Ilona
Thank you doesn't seem enough for all that I am receiving....
Having looked carefully I can say there isn't an I separate from life and there isn't an I in charge managing and controlling what is happening.
Is there a doer and a thinker - I feel a conflict here as I sense a doer and a thinker that has free will and yet I'm unable to say that it acts independently of circumstances and or situations and life happening and also there isn't an I separate from life managing and controlling.....there is a sense of separateness from life but that sense also of life form appearing.....
I hope my answers are clear and make sense. I feel somewhat lost and vulnerable in the process and yet at the same time I feel so privileged and grateful to you for giving me this opportunity and am always very much excited to receive your next mail.
Much love
Fionn

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Fionn
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Re: Plé

Postby Fionn » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:12 pm

Dear Ilona
Continuing on from yesterday.....
I ask is there a difference between a sense and a knowing....both seem to be true but that can't be possible. Is a sense a sensation in the body/mind while a knowing comes from a nowhere space it is just there.
To revisit the question is there a doer, a thinker that has free will - the sense tells me there is, while the knowing tells me there isn't......however the sense in this case seems to be stronger than the knowing with the sense creating a doubt, claiming truth.....

Much love
Fionn

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Ilona
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Re: Plé

Postby Ilona » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:44 am

I can feel your confusion. Let me give you a little exercise.
Look around the room. See objects. Turn attention slowly from one object to another and simply watch the thought flow. It's as if a narration is going on naming things, telling a little story. Can you see how mind labels everything? Is it something you do or something that is happening on automatic? Can you turn the narration off? For how long?
Try this exercise a few times through the day, to really see how this works.

A key is to notice, how where attention goes, labeling follows.
Writie what you notice in your experience and we take another step.

All is in good time, unfolding perfectly.

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Fionn
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Re: Plé

Postby Fionn » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:18 pm

Thanks so much Ilona
I've being doing the exercise during the day of turning my attention slowly from one object to another and yes I can see the thought flow accompanied by a naming and sometimes a story. I can now see how the mind labels everything and yes it's on automatic. Can I turn the narration on and off, yes but only for a moment when I become aware of my thoughts however the narration soon starts up again as another object is noticed and the mind begins to label again - and yes I can see that wherever attention goes labelling by the mind follows......
Much love
Fionn

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Ilona
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Re: Plé

Postby Ilona » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:56 pm

Great, let's proceed.
Here is an exercise, http://markedeternal.blogspot.mx/2012/05/labels.html
Do it here or on paper, see how labeling works, how body reacts, how description affects what is happening.
Describe what you learned after.

Much love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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