Grateful for this opportunity to get some help

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Jazul24
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Re: Grateful for this opportunity to get some help

Postby Jazul24 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:35 pm

Hi Xain,

Thank you so much for guiding me!

Love,
Brian

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Jazul24
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Re: Grateful for this opportunity to get some help

Postby Jazul24 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:39 pm

Hi Hannah,

Thank you for taking over! I'd like to go right to the questions.

Thanks,
Brian

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Hannah B-T
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Re: Grateful for this opportunity to get some help

Postby Hannah B-T » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:18 am

ok here they are:

1) Is there now 100% confidence that the separate self is an illusion?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from recent day to day experience.

6) Anything to add?
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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Jazul24
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Re: Grateful for this opportunity to get some help

Postby Jazul24 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:48 pm

Thanks, Hannah,

It's been a full couple days...I'll answer the questions as I have time.

1) Yes, I am 100% confident that the separate self is an illusion...and when I'm not 100% sure I look into it and find that I am 100% sure.

2) The illusion of a separate self is an idea or belief that 'I', 'me', 'Brian', etc. is ultimately real. Conventionally speaking there is a 'me', but there is no basis. The illusion starts when I believe the thoughts, beliefs, and ideas which are added on to my immediate experience.

3) It feels like a sort of easy-alertness. I'm not sure how to describe the difference from before...I suppose there was a certain type of tension and efforting relating to the belief that 'I am separate'. (Let me know if you'd like more on this, or any of the the other questions.)

4) The last bit to push me over was in saying "I'm ready for these questions".

...I'll leave it here for now.

Thanks,
Brian

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Hannah B-T
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Re: Grateful for this opportunity to get some help

Postby Hannah B-T » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:05 pm

when I'm not 100% sure I look into it and find that I am 100% sure.
Can you 'walk me through' what this looks like? Give an example of when this has happened recently. Thanks
.I suppose there was a certain type of tension and efforting relating to the belief that 'I am separate'. (Let me know if you'd like more on this, or any of the the other questions.)
So there is now no experience of something here feeling separate to life?

Looking forward to hearing more. No rush.

Hannah
x
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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Jazul24
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Re: Grateful for this opportunity to get some help

Postby Jazul24 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:34 pm

Yep. On Friday morning as I read the question "Are you 100% sure...", the thought arose "I'm not 100% sure." Then I looked into that and found it was just a thought and there is no self underlying the thought.
So there is now no experience of something here feeling separate to life?
Right, there is nothing here that is separate.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from recent day to day experience.
Decision, intention, free will, choice and control are all concepts. There is nothing that makes things happen. Things just happen. Trying to know how it works is a distraction from what is happening. The is no "me" here for whom to be responsible. Example...I lift my glass. If the thought arises "I am lifting my glass" or "I decide/intend/choose/control to lift my glass", then I see that this is a thought and there is no "I" doing any of that, there is simply the act of lifting the glass.

Same with other examples. I look, I smell, I feel, etc. There is only looking, smelling, feeling, etc.

How is that?

Thanks,
Brian

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Hannah B-T
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Re: Grateful for this opportunity to get some help

Postby Hannah B-T » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:00 pm

Thanks, I will let some other guides have a look at the thread and get back to you with any further questions.

x
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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Jazul24
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Re: Grateful for this opportunity to get some help

Postby Jazul24 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:08 pm

Sounds good. Thanks, Hannah!

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Hannah B-T
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Re: Grateful for this opportunity to get some help

Postby Hannah B-T » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:07 pm

Hi Brian,

As I was concerned about, because what's written on this thread is so short and the 'shift' occurred through a skype session which isn't documented, the other guides are struggling to really get a feel for what has changed and how.

They have asked me to flesh out things a bit more with you and then go from there.

Would you be up for that?
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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Jazul24
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Re: Grateful for this opportunity to get some help

Postby Jazul24 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:45 pm

Yes.

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Hannah B-T
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Re: Grateful for this opportunity to get some help

Postby Hannah B-T » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:01 pm

So let's get into control and choice a bit more. Do ANY activities of the mind or body feel more in control than any others? What about when doing complex tasks, like typing, or driving a car?

Looking back describe the difference between how you view the process of coming to the LU forum and 'choosing' to be guided, compared to how you would have described what you were doing before starting this dialogue.

Talk to me about emotions. Do emotional reactions feel 'personal', like the phrase 'i am angry' 'i am sad'?

what about ownership. Take a look at stuff you own,
your TV
your car
your flat/house
your lover
your family

Talk me through what's going on there, what is ownership? What does the owning?

Thanks
Hannah
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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Jazul24
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Re: Grateful for this opportunity to get some help

Postby Jazul24 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:53 pm

Thanks, Hannah. I'll respond to the questions when I have some time.

Brian

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Jazul24
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Re: Grateful for this opportunity to get some help

Postby Jazul24 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:18 pm

Hi Hannah,

I'll try to be more elaborate and specific. Let me know if you'd like more on anything. I tend to be rather concise when writing which is one reason I prefer Skype-ing.
So let's get into control and choice a bit more. Do ANY activities of the mind or body feel more in control than any others? What about when doing complex tasks, like typing, or driving a car?
Right now I am typing this response. There is activity happening. My fingers are touching different keys. I am sitting in a chair. The breeze is coming in through the window. There are words being formed through choice and decision. In all of this there is no "me". I may have the thought "I am typing", "I am choosing the words", but when I look at what is underneath these thoughts I don't find anything. There is a sense of relief and joy whenever I look and don't find anything.

One of the most helpful things I experienced in getting a sense of 'no self' was when I was watching an interview about the fetters. The man being interviewed said, "There is no self and there has never been one." Perhaps this was my first real 'taste' of seeing through the delusion of a fixed self, having this sense of relief and joy...and wonder, ease, openness.
Looking back describe the difference between how you view the process of coming to the LU forum and 'choosing' to be guided, compared to how you would have described what you were doing before starting this dialogue.
Now I see that there was no 'Brian' who chose to come to LU. There were decisions and actions, but there was not a 'me' doing that.

Previously, before doing this dialogue I felt and believed that "I want to join LU and realize there is no self", "I want to be guided", "I am making decisions about what to do, what to type, what words to use". There was a definite belief that there was a "me" underlying all of that.
Talk to me about emotions. Do emotional reactions feel 'personal', like the phrase 'i am angry' 'i am sad'?
Emotional reactions do not feel 'personal'. They are still unpleasant, but significantly less so. When I have the thought "I am angry/sad/etc." and I look for a "me" who is angry/sad/etc. I don't find anything. The emotion is there. The thought may be there. There is bodily sensation. There may be a story about how I don't want 'this', or how I want 'that', but there is no "me" who wants or doesn't want.
what about ownership. Take a look at stuff you own,
your TV
your car
your flat/house
your lover
your family

Talk me through what's going on there, what is ownership? What does the owning?
When I look at my things - my computer, my phone, my car, my apartment...my son, my wife, my body - there is an emotional response of joy and appreciation. When I imagine injury or threat occurring to any of these, I feel anger and sadness, but there is no true sense of possession or loss. It is painful to imagine, but not ultimately disturbing like it was before.

That's it. Anything you see which I need to explain more or clear up?

Thanks,
Brian

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Hannah B-T
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Re: Grateful for this opportunity to get some help

Postby Hannah B-T » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:02 pm

When I imagine injury or threat occurring to any of these, I feel anger and sadness, but there is no true sense of possession or loss. It is painful to imagine, but not ultimately disturbing like it was before.
I'm not quite clear on this one, could you elaborate a bit more.
Have a go at describing to me how possession 'works' from what is experienced now.
What is it made of?
What posseses/owns?

Moving on to the body in particular, is there currently a strong experience of 'my body'?
Is there a sense of a self located in a particular place in the body? like if I asked you right now to take your index finger and point to a place that feels most like you, where does the finger go (don't over think this one!)
Looking closer, where is that response coming from?

Thanks for continuing to engage.
Are there keys in your pocket? Is the sky blue? Is there an 'i, a self?' LOOK! :)

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Jazul24
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Re: Grateful for this opportunity to get some help

Postby Jazul24 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:54 pm

Hi Hannah,

Just letting you know I'm still waiting for a bit of time where I can sit and reply...hopefully in the next day or two.

Brian


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