Catherine729 this thread is for you!

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Catherine729 this thread is for you!

Postby nonaparry » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:03 pm

Hi Catherine,

I know you are familiar with The Work and The Shadow Process. Can you say a bit about what brings you to Liberation Unleashed and what your expectations are around Liberation?

Looking forward to our conversation!
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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Re: Catherine729 this thread is for you!

Postby Catherine729 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:23 pm

Hi Nona!

I've been on a spiritual path for about 10 years now and it's really intensified over the past 2 years. I've read lots of books and attended all sorts of seminars, lectures, workshops. What's most resonated with me so far is Debbie Ford's Shadow Process work and The Work of Byron Katie. I tend to be very intellectual -- I love to read and learn new concepts, but I'm very aware that there's a huge difference between knowing something intellectually and really knowing it experientially. Both Debbie and Katie's work have given me that deep sense of knowing at a cellular level, and that's why I'm drawn to LU. I had never heard of this work until I saw your post on the Shadow Process FB page. That intrigued me enough to google LU and I ended up here. I read some of the one-on-one threads and immediately felt that this is what I've been looking for, I knew this was my next step. I've had very brief glimpses of this illusion, enough so that I find myself saying "I know the universe works very differently than how I've been lead to believe it works." And I want to know more -- I want to understand HOW it works, I want to see beyond the illusion and see the truth. I feel that I am so close, but I can't quite get there. I'm grateful for any help you can provide.

Thanks,
Catherine

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Re: Catherine729 this thread is for you!

Postby Catherine729 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:22 am

Adding to what I already posted:

As the result of both The Work and the Shadow Process I've had some significant changes in perception. I sense that Liberation is just that -- a shift in perception, but on a MUCH larger scale. Right now I can't see how I could possibly make that large of a shift, but I also trust that it can be done if I'm ready (and I believe that I am).

You asked about my expections around Liberation. On one hand, I try not to have expectations because I realize from past experiences that I can't possibly know what's going to come of a shift in perception. When I started the Shadow Process work a couple of years ago, I thought i was going to find the courage to make major changes in my life (meaning external changes) because I was so unhappy with my life the way it was. Today, very little has changed externally, but EVERYTHING has changed internally. I have more peace,hope, and acceptance in my life, and there are moments of joy that I wasn't experiencing before. But I still feel very separate, very unconnected, and that's something I'm hoping will change through this process of liberation.

I'm looking forward to hearing from you, Nona. BTW I'm on the east coast of the US, in North Carolina.

Catherine

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Re: Catherine729 this thread is for you!

Postby nonaparry » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:05 am

Great!!!

Here's how we will proceed: i'll ask questions; you investigate deeply, looking for your own truth and personal experience, not what you've read or heard from others.
You must take your time, answering only when sure that you have found your truest response, no matter what it may be or what you think about it. It's an inquiry. i probe, you look deeply and respond.

Will you commit to 100% honesty and posting here at least once a day? If so, let us proceed.

You say
I tend to be very intellectual...but I'm very aware that there's a huge difference between knowing something intellectually and really knowing it experientially.
Yes. i'm so glad you've addressed this. If liberation could be had by THINKing about it, no one would be seeking any more; we'd have all got it long ago.
The method we use here at LU is Direct Pointing which focuses on Experience. Because we have to communicate in language, there can be some confusion about what is thought and what is direct experience.

Direct experience involves something real: body, table, food, birds, musical instruments. We experience through the senses: touch, sight, smell, hearing, taste, and awareness.
Thought is an idea or mental picture, imagined and contemplated. Having thoughts is real; their content is not.

Real life is not the same as imagination.
For example table is real, unicorn is imagined. And even though we can imagine a unicorn, that does not mean that unicorn is possible in real life.
Real is that which does not disappear if you stop believing in it.

Imagine you hold a lemon in your hands. Visualise its weight, shape, temperature, texture, scent. Close your eyes and hold that lemon, imagine it as vividly as you can. Feel it. Smell it. Open your mouth and bite into it: the tart juice bursts into sensation in the mouth.

Then open your eyes and Look: what happened to the lemon?
Was the lemon real?

The same is true for 'me'. You have been told that there is a you and never questioned it. It's a fantasy, a thought that rules your life. you believe that there is a me. But there isn't.

It is not difficult to see. So here we go...

Tell me precisely what thoughts and feelings come up as you read this and let this thought into your mind:
There is no separate self, no entity 'me' at all in reality. As in zero. There is everything else, life is going on as always, but it's not happening to 'me'. Like breathing is not happening to 'me', it's just happening.

I look forward to your response!
love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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Re: Catherine729 this thread is for you!

Postby Catherine729 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:55 pm

Hi Nona,

I commit to posting every day and to answering honestly. As I investigate I will strive to separate out what I know as a result of my own direct experiences from what I've read or heard from others.

Here's what comes up for me:

There's a part of me that absolutely wants to believe there is no separate self, since I know that this belief is the source of all my pain. This knowing is more than just intellectual, although that's something that I've read and heard from others. It seems to be a deeper knowing, at a different level (cellular level? soul level?). And it feels like there is something within me that yearns to believe that concept, that is compelling me to look, to investigate, to see through the illusion.

There's another part of me that thinks that concept is ridiculous. How can there be no me? If there isn't a me, then who/what is the entity that feels what I'm feeling, sees what I see, hears what I hear? It certainly seems that there is a separate entity that is experiencing those things. And those experiences seem to be unique to that entity (that I call me). When I take a sip of my tea and have the experience of tasting it, I don't believe that any other entity is having that same experience. I can't know that for sure, but it certainly seems that way.

As far as "breathing is not happening to me, it's just happening" I'm having a lot of difficulty with that. I agree that breathing is often happening automatically, but other times I seem to be doing the breathing consciously. I'm purposefully breathing deeply or exhaling slowly -- I'm making a choice to do that and I'm controlling my breathe at those times.

There's also some fear that comes up around the thought that there is no me. If that is the case, then everything changes, everything I've always believed is wrong. And that's a scary thought. But at the same time it's thrilling! I want so much to know the truth, to see the universe as it really is -- that's what I've been seeking my entire life, and I don't want my fear to prevent me from knowing.

Catherine

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Re: Catherine729 this thread is for you!

Postby nonaparry » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:32 am

Thank you. This is good and meaty!
There's a part of me that absolutely wants to believe there is no separate self, since I know that this belief is the source of all my pain.
We are not looking for a new belief here, we want to just look for the truth and see it for what it is.
And it feels like there is something within me that yearns to believe that concept, that is compelling me to look, to investigate, to see through the illusion.
Yes. Somehow we are Always aware of the Lie. There is a tension that lets us know 'something' is Off.
How can there be no me? If there isn't a me, then who/what is the entity that feels what I'm feeling, sees what I see, hears what I hear?
Good question! Who DOES feel? When 'you' experience a feeling or sensation, who is the feeler? Point to the feeler with your finger. What is finger pointing to?
Who DOES see? When 'you' experience seeing, who is the see-er? Point to the see-er with your finger. What is finger pointing to?
Who DOES hear? When 'you' experience hearing, who is the hearer? Point to the hearer with your finger. What is finger pointing to?

Who notices the one who feels, sees, hears? Point to the noticer. Who notices the noticer? What are you pointing to?? LOOK. Tell me what the finger points to.
It certainly seems that there is a separate entity that is experiencing those things. And those experiences seem to be unique to that entity (that I call me).
Yes, indeed! It seems that way. But is it really???
Thinking that we are a separate entity experiencing something unique and personal is an unquestioned assumption, or story. So let's question it! When did the illusion of separation begin? Where did it come from?

You were too young at the time to notice, and your memories have long been rewritten into the Story of You.
The Story of You began sometime during the Terrible Twos, when you began to separate from your parents.
The fictional character "Catherine" was invented by your parents and family. To be fair, they thought it was real, too.
Before that time you didn't see yourself as a separate person; there was only world, experienced.

Then you heard, LEARNED that there was a person called Catherine who was responsible for some of these happenings. There was cause and effect; there were consequences; there was control, and you had control.

In reality, this was all story: the Story of Catherine. The story of a fictional character, called Catherine, who has control over a chunk of life, of experience.

We shall investigate whether this is true. To see the story, you cannot be the story.

The experiences Catherine has are unique to Catherine, is it true?
I'd like you to look at the thoughts that contain an I as you go about daily life. Just note them. How many thoughts seem to relate to 'you', either directly, or indirectly?

Simple pointer to truth:
1) Is a cup of tea in front of you A CUP, or a MY CUP?
Which is more true?
2) And how does a MY CUP become attached to a self?
How does possession happen, and what possesses?

Can you find a lot of thoughts ABOUT a self?
Thoughts that say "I" chose to do things, I direct things"
Can a thought actually choose? Or does it just report on events as they happen? or after they happen?
Which appears to be true? Let's check.

You can find thoughts ABOUT self.
You can find thoughts ABOUT tasks and process that don't have much self story attached.
A whole world in the thoughts ABOUT the world.
In direct observation, life just seems to be happening, outside of thought. Whoa.

Can it be that we build a self-story about ownership and doer-ship entirely out of thought?

I recommend going about your day, again, and watching how you attach an I. No particular agenda. Just noting the truth of how life is, and how you construct a self concept. Few emotions added. Now you are on to something else, new thought arises, floats by. I attaches a story. Like it always does.
When I take a sip of my tea and have the experience of tasting it, I don't believe that any other entity is having that same experience. I can't know that for sure, but it certainly seems that way.
It cannot be “my” life. I cannot break off a piece that is just for me that I direct and control and operate separate from the whole. It is just a misguided belief. An error in seeing...
“I” points to this belief. A misguided belief in a little broken off piece of Life that is a special “me” that belongs to me and I can direct and control... not possible
As far as "breathing is not happening to me, it's just happening" I'm having a lot of difficulty with that. I agree that breathing is often happening automatically, but other times I seem to be doing the breathing consciously. I'm purposefully breathing deeply or exhaling slowly -- I'm making a choice to do that and I'm controlling my breathe at those times.
Yeah, right. There is a 'you' that sends signals to the diaphragm to drop, to the lungs to expand, to the blood to hurry to the lungs to pick up oxygen, to the diaphragm to lift, to the lungs to collapse... Uh-huh. Breathing happens, and then 'you' take credit for it!!!
You "practice" controlled breathing. WHO is the breather?? Point to it with your finger. And who notices the breather? Point! What are you pointing at?? In reality. What do you SEE when finger points to the breather and to the noticer?
There's also some fear that comes up around the thought that there is no me. If that is the case, then everything changes
Yes, good!! Focus on the fear.
What are those fears, what is resistance? Notice that fear is a protection mechanism. The fear itself is like a door, it holds you from looking behind the door. It's just fear. It’s ok for it to be there doing it’s job. Just let it be there, acknowledge its presence, check where it feels physically in the body.
What is fear itself?
What is it protecting?
What needs to be protected?
Ask fear to reveal why it’s here, what message does it have for you; ask fear to share its wisdom.
If there is no self, then there is nothing that needs to be protected. Right?
Honour the feeling. Bow to it, thank it for doing it’s job.
Now look behind.
Is there anything behind the fear?
What?

Notice there is nothing in fear to be afraid of.
everything I've always believed is wrong.
True. You may need to be open to the possibility that all you know is wrong.

The answer is simple—there is no self! There never was. We are not doing anything in life, life is happening as us. There is no manager involved that decides what, when, with who, why. Life just happens, by itself, for no other reason. It's life alive. It's Life-ing.

The big question is how to see that there is really no self in reality at all.
If you accept this as a belief, without testing, nothing will change. You will have one more belief running in the system creating more conflicts than before. To see the truth of it you need to look.

Looking is also very simple—one just needs a clear intention to finally see the truth, no matter what distractions stand in a way. It's not scary, it is not magic. One just needs to start thinking for himself and answer some precise questions with whole honesty like never before. 
And that's a scary thought. But at the same time it's thrilling!
Look at the fear. Fear is a feeling arising; just a feeling. You don’t need to analyse why it is there. Invite fear closer; it’s here anyway. Ask fear what it wants to reveal to you; what message it’s brought. Then just casually sit, shut up and listen.
I want so much to know the truth, to see the universe as it really is -- that's what I've been seeking my entire life, and I don't want my fear to prevent me from knowing.
No worries. This is the simplest, most logical, most obvious truth—there is no such entity as self. There is no self at all, no nothing, but life flowing freely, all is one reality, one life. Life just IS.

You understand that this is essential for you to see the truth.
With that understanding and strong intention, to the point of desperation, like this is the last question of your life — 
only one 
and then you die, 
you —
ASK

then you become very quite, 
another words, 
shut up the habitual thinking, analyzing, any meditation - whatever you are doing

completely shut it off

and listen
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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Re: Catherine729 this thread is for you!

Postby Catherine729 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:17 pm

Wow, this is a lot!! A lot to examine and investigate. And I'm very excited about doing that -- I feel like a detective, trying to find clues, really looking without any preconceived ideas. I will answer your questions as I get answers, and if I don't get answers I'll report what I'm experiencing.

I had some interesting insights last night and this morning as I've been sitting with this notion that life just happens and then we take credit for it and make a story about I. As I was walking my dogs last night, an image/vision came to me of a leaf floating downstream. The leaf believes that it is responsible for keeping the water moving and he is so focued on making that happen that he never notices that the water is moving by itself. Whenever there's a rock in the stream, the water carries the leaf tho one side or the other, but the leaf thinks he made the decision himself which way to go. And then he tells the story about what a good choice he made, assuming it went well, or the bad decision if he ends up stuck in a shallow place. I came home and wrote an entire story about this leaf and his illusion of being in control. And that definitely helped me to see that a different perspective is possible. Do I believe that I'm like the leaf? No, but I'm open to looking at the perspective.

Then this morning I woke up about 5 minutes before my alarm went off, as I often do. And it occurred to me that I would wake up anyway, without setting an alarm, but I've convinced myself that I need to set an alarm, that I'm controlling when I wake up

Then lying in bed, thinking about that, I had a great thought about how I could investigate this whole notion, how I could challenge my current beliefs. It was an amazing idea, involving a book, and I got very excited about it. And then, poof, the idea/thought just vanished -- totally gone. I suspect that I was getting very close to something, too close, and that's why it vanished ... or maybe that's just a story that I'm making up about my experience. LOL.

I just wanted to share those experiences with you. I will set a strong intention, ASK, then sit quietly as you suggest and listen.

Thank you for your guidance, Nona!

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Re: Catherine729 this thread is for you!

Postby nonaparry » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:44 am

I will answer your questions as I get answers, and if I don't get answers I'll report what I'm experiencing.
Good plan; yes, i gave you a lot!

The leaf tale is a marvelous parable. Don't BELIEVE you are like the leaf; Check it! Look! Is life flowing along, and you with it, telling stories of being in control? LOOK!
And then, poof, the idea/thought just vanished -- totally gone. I suspect that I was getting very close to something, too close, and that's why it vanished ... or maybe that's just a story that I'm making up about my experience.
Any thought ABOUT ones experience is a story; and YES, mind plays hardball when it believes there is DANGER. Keep watching!; i bet you will find additional experiences of a near glimpse of truth that mind shutters.

This is wonderful, Catherine!! i'm so excited for you! Keep LOOKing and describing your direct experience!
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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Re: Catherine729 this thread is for you!

Postby Catherine729 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:59 pm

Nona, yes the leaf parable was so interesting because it just came to me, all at once. And it made and continues to make so much sense. I really get the possibility that life is like that. Now I want to experience that, really know it for myself.

So, some observations about my senses/thoughts:

Hearing, feeling, smelling, seeing, breathing, thinking are all going on all the time without any input or control from me. I think I really get that part. It's just when "I" decide to pay attention, to observe something, that it suddenly seems like I'm the one doing it , controlling it. For example, my eyes are always seeing -- whenever they are open, light is entering the eye and stimulating the neural cells in the retina, which sends a signal to my brain, etc. This requires no input or control from me -- it just happens. But then there's something that I want to look at closer or pay attention to and suddenly I'm aware of my seeing, and I believe that I'm the one controlling it. The same thing is true for my thoughts, I think. There are thoughts floating through my mind all the time, but I don't pay any attention until one catches my attention for some reason and I latch onto it. When this happens I think that I'm controlling my thoughts, even generating my thoughts, yet they are there whether I'm paying attention or not.

I really can see these things -- as I'm typing this I can feel that what I wrote above is true. It's when I start thinking further, about what the implications are, that I start getting anxious and want to negate what I'm seeing. So I'm just going to try to take it one small step at a time.

I'll write more later ...
Catherine

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Re: Catherine729 this thread is for you!

Postby nonaparry » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:23 pm

I like your attention to detail. Thank you!
It's just when "I" decide to pay attention, to observe something, that it suddenly seems like I'm the one doing it , controlling it.
Yes. The keyword here is seems.
Our consciousness follows our focus; what we focus on becomes our immediate experience. For example: the other day at the gym i was on the stationary bike, pedaling. i had the experience of legs going round and round, torso held stable, breathing. Suddenly i looked at my feet on the pedals. Now i experienced FEET very up-close and personal. All that had changed was my focus. Before focus: no feet. After focus, suddenly feet!!!
And that is the way of it with living.

You put it very well here:
There are thoughts floating through my mind all the time, but I don't pay any attention until one catches my attention for some reason and I latch onto it. When this happens I think that I'm controlling my thoughts, even generating my thoughts, yet they are there whether I'm paying attention or not.
Yes, this is a good synopsis of how thought and focus work.
I really can see these things -- as I'm typing this I can feel that what I wrote above is true.
You can really see these things!! YES!! Don't get lost in FEELing it is true. Feeling is a thought; thought is a story. Direct experience will show you what is real.
It's when I start thinking further, about what the implications are, that I start getting anxious and want to negate what I'm seeing.
Yes, of course. Mind does not wish for you to see through the illusion of self, so it produces anxiety when you are getting near.
Best thing is when fear or anxiety arise, look at it directly. Stare at it. What is it REALLY?? A collection of sensations. Where in the body are they felt? What colour are they? On a scale of 1-10 where 1 is low and 10 is high, how strong are the sensations?
Whenever you have the sensation of anxiety, check it out with these questions.

The fear is a door that is preventing you from seeing something. What is behind the door??
Accept that fear is here; mind honestly believes that 'you' are in DANGER and it throws up this Protective Mechanism, Fear. By accepting, looking at the anxiety, you see that it is just another thought, another story. Clarity comes.
what the implications are
Looking directly at the anxiety, what ARE the implications? What is it that mind is afraid of you seeing and knowing?
So I'm just going to try to take it one small step at a time.
Yes. Take all the time you need, eyes wide open. This is a wonderful adventure, and you won't want to miss a bit of the scenery!!!

love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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Re: Catherine729 this thread is for you!

Postby Catherine729 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:50 am

Hi Nona,

I haven't had a lot of time these past 2 days to give this a lot of attention -- my daughter is home from college this weekend and that's keeping me occupied-- but I will carve out some time over the next couple of days. I'm curious about what I will learn when I sit quietly and listen.

I have thought a bit about the concept of possessing. You brought up these points:

Simple pointer to truth:
1) Is a cup of tea in front of you A CUP, or a MY CUP?
Which is more true?
2) And how does a MY CUP become attached to a self?
How does possession happen, and what possesses?

Possession happens simply because I choose to label something as mine. And a label is just a thought. So possession is the result of a thought, it isn't real. So A CUP is more real than MY CUP.

What possesses? Whatever it is we're labelling "ME" and I haven't figured out yet what that is!

A couple of questions for you:
When you talk about LOOKing, do you mean using my eyes and my vision, or do you mean directly experiencing?
You wrote "Our consciousness follows our focus .." Is my consciousness part of me? I think that's how I would define ME -- that consciousness that I relate to, that seems tobe connected in some way to my body and mind.

All for now,
Catherine

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Re: Catherine729 this thread is for you!

Postby nonaparry » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:45 am

What possesses? Whatever it is we're labelling "ME" and I haven't figured out yet what that is!
So do this: sit with a cup that is "yours". Look at it very carefully. Where is the ownership of that cup? Is it in/on the cup? Is it in/on the body? Point, with your finger, to the 'me' who owns the cup. Look with the eyes in your head: what is finger pointing to?
"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
When you talk about LOOKing, do you mean using my eyes and my vision, or do you mean directly experiencing?
Good question! i mean BOTH. Look with your eyes; directly experience what is happening. Don't THINK about it. Thinking is only ABOUT what happens; Experience is what is happening NOW.
Thoughts exist in reality, but their content is always imaginary. By LOOKing, we SEE what is real and what is imaginary.
Is my consciousness part of me? I think that's how I would define ME -- that consciousness that I relate to, that seems tobe connected in some way to my body and mind.
What do you mean by 'my' consciousness? Is consciousness Personal?

Here is a useful exercise:
With EYES CLOSED, focusing on present direct experience, answer the following:
How tall are you?
What shape are you?
Do you have boundaries?
Is there a place where body/mind stops and clothing/world begins? Can you feel the edge?
Notice that breathing is happening. Do you notice where air stops and lungs begin?
In that quiet, noticing place, is there a 'you'?
Lift a hand and point to where 'you' is with your finger. Now open your eyes. What is finger pointing to? LOOK at where finger is pointing and tell me what you SEE.

"We have 50 trillion cells in our body performing trillions of processes; only about 0.01% of all the brain’s activity is experienced consciously. In other words, it is as if roughly 10,000 cinema films are actually going on in the brain all at once, while we are only consciously aware of one of them. Altogether then, the data rate processed by the brain is an astronomical 320 Gb/s!"
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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Re: Catherine729 this thread is for you!

Postby Catherine729 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:06 am

With eyes closed, I am able to experience the boundaries of my body -- shape, size, the edge. When I point to "me" my finger is pointing directly at the center of my chest, in between my breasts. This is the area that I connect with to access my inner knowing, when I am seeking spiritual guidance. On the other hand, when I point to where my thoughts come from, my finger is pointing to my head. That's where I believe my ego lives, and what I hear coming from my head is my ego's voice. It seems to me that there is a clear separation between these two "voices" -- the voice of my ego (thoughts that come from my mind) versus the voice I'm aware of coming from this area near my heart/solar plexus.

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Re: Catherine729 this thread is for you!

Postby Catherine729 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:13 am

Wow, when I sit with "my" cup, I'm feeling the "ownership" coming from my head! I didn't expect that at all, I thought it would come from that "me" place in my chest! But it's definitely coming from my head. That actually makes sense, since it's my ego that possesses. How interesting ... I'm going to sit with this for a while and test it out some more.

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Re: Catherine729 this thread is for you!

Postby nonaparry » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:43 am

As we are moving into comparison of Real vs imaginary, first let's establish what is real and what isn't.

"Real is that which does not disappear if you stop believing in it." Desk is real, computer is real. When you don't think about them, they are still there. Santa and Tinkerbell are not real; they are fictional characters. If i ask you to look around the room and find the computer, you will do it; if i ask you to look for Santa you won't even bother. You know Santa is imaginary.
With eyes closed, I am able to experience the boundaries of my body -- shape, size, the edge.
That's very unusual, to say the least. You must have an amazingly accurate proprioceptive senses!
When this one closes her eyes, body loses all shape and edges; this one cannot accurately detect where body ends and clothing begins.
i will give you a different exercise to try to induce the experience i am looking for.
When I point to "me" my finger is pointing directly at the center of my chest, in between my breasts.
Good. And when you Look at your chest, do you see a 'me' there? in reality?

Is there a Real entity 'me' somewhere inside your chest? In reality? When the doctor cuts through your sternum, will he find a 'me'?
This is the area that I connect with to access my inner knowing, when I am seeking spiritual guidance.
Yes. "Connect" as in "label in thought". In thought, you assign chest as the place to access wisdom.
Is the chest, this gateway to wisdom, 'you'? If so, how does it work? If not, where is the 'you' so vividly experienced?

Do this little exercise—close your eyes and imagine you are holding a large watermelon in your hands. Imagine it so vividly that you feel its weight, shape, temperature, texture of the skin, its scent, the hollow sound when you knock on it. Hold it there, sensing it vividly. Now open your eyes and look.
What happened to the melon? The sensation was so believable. Was the melon real?
when I point to where my thoughts come from, my finger is pointing to my head. That's where I believe my ego lives
Sitting quietly, eyes open, with your finger pointing to where you think your head is, LOOK with your eyes at what the finger is pointing to.
Please describe carefully what you actually see and directly experience while doing this.
what I hear coming from my head is my ego's voice
Good. Please describe the kind(s) of things this voice says.
the voice of my ego (thoughts that come from my mind)
Are you saying the ego is thoughts? or that the voice is thoughts. i want to be clear.
the voice I'm aware of coming from this area near my heart/solar plexus
Please describe the kind(s) of things this voice says.
when I sit with "my" cup, I'm feeling the "ownership" coming from my head! ... That actually makes sense, since it's my ego that possesses.
Please describe how ego possesses. If ego 'owns' the cup; how does it do that? What else does ego own?
I'm going to sit with this for a while and test it out some more.
Good! Test everything!
Please locate the 'ego' inside your head. When the doctor does an MRI scan, is he going to find an ego in reality?

i'm giving you a lot here; please experience these as fully as possible and report your findings.
love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


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