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Sophie
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Re: Sophie, welcome here.

Postby Sophie » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:33 am

Hello!
First, i wish to reply to this one:
1/ If I try to take your car, what happens next? How is the thought about possessing things revealed in the wider world? How deep is that support for owning?
what happens next?
Blame on you: I love my car since I have so few valuable belongings, this object represents my freedom, ability to move, well MY car is really part of me!...I dreamt often of my car that is really a symbol also of my body...
It's like I have integrated it as part of MY external/internal world.

How is the thought about possessing things revealed in the wider world?
How this possession mecanism is expressing in the world?: by people using time/energy to maintain this system.

How deep is that support for owning?
Very deep cause linked with the idea of security/survival /protection: having a house, bank account and so on...and i read that is a primitive need based in the limbic brain...

As a conclusion, as we cannot counter-act with those primitive needs, what do you want to show me with this question?...I 'am totally blind!

"There is almost nothing that you can see that does not attach to the center of your world": well, i see it now...all is centered in human life around sustaining ourselves and in the process, building an area of MY/MINE/YOU/YOURS

What purpose does it serve?
Purpose of survival of our specie...well I'am disturbed now by my companion and have lost my concentration...

Anyway, I'am curious to see what is the point here,

Much love and appreciation from ME!
S
Ce "je" qui n'existait pas avant la naissance de votre corps et qui disparaîtra à sa mort, ce "je" limité par le temps, vous le considérez comme acquis. Transcendez les concepts et soyez sans idées."
Nisargadatta Maharaj

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Elizabeth
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Re: Sophie, welcome here.

Postby Elizabeth » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:14 pm

Hi Sophie,
In this I am pointing to how we own things.
Indeed, the thought that we NEED is linked to survival, the organism needs certain things, food, ability to move, relationships.
And it is this possessing that we think about very often, all centering around a self. You can see it clearly, and describe it.

We have thoughts about self owning.
We have countries and cultures with different thoughts about it.
But fundamental to all that, is the idea that a SELF can OWN things. Is this true? In reality
In reality, is it more true to say car is attached to Sophie, or car just is?
Attached to Sophie self by the label : MY
Which is a thought.
Sophie has a self. MY SELF.
Maybe that is a thought.
Can that be true?
Much love.

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Sophie
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Re: Sophie, welcome here.

Postby Sophie » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:47 am

Dear Elizabeth,

When i read this:

Sophie has a self. MY SELF.
Maybe that is a thought.
Can that be true?

I felt it's was something!!!
I work on it ( have started applying the 4 questions of Katie) and I feel it's a turning point in the process. I need to deepen it and I come back to you...
.................
Much Love,
S
Ce "je" qui n'existait pas avant la naissance de votre corps et qui disparaîtra à sa mort, ce "je" limité par le temps, vous le considérez comme acquis. Transcendez les concepts et soyez sans idées."
Nisargadatta Maharaj

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Elizabeth
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Re: Sophie, welcome here.

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:42 pm

OK, Sophie.
I make one observation, you make the decision.
You are working now with many techniques, readings and writings, and I understand that you are also in conversation with a French member of the forum.
That seems to me to be a very scattered process. If you can pick one thing to work on, do you think that focusing your energy and time on that one thing would be more effective?
Or is there a story that you need more?
Much love, Elizabeth

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Sophie
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Re: Sophie, welcome here.

Postby Sophie » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:13 pm

Hi Elizabeth,

I do not mean I come back after a while...I mean I feel this question is like a turning point. I need to inquire it and observe how I react when reading :
Maybe Myself is just a thought.
...because i start having glimpses that myself is finally just a thought. It's opening like more space inside.

For the energy, what do you advise: i'am maybe wrong trying to "sustain" the process with reading or listening some recordings...Being scattered as you said but can it be a form of resistance? (no, well actually, it"s my default to be dispersed)
But for the process, could it be that could prevent me from really looking and deepening?
Do you mean I have exclusively to focus on the questions asked. As you said laser-like ...
For the french side, the lady has gone and a man replaces her but I was just thinking to keep only relationship with you.
I suddenly feel a little lost!

Please, what should i do now?......?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

S
Ce "je" qui n'existait pas avant la naissance de votre corps et qui disparaîtra à sa mort, ce "je" limité par le temps, vous le considérez comme acquis. Transcendez les concepts et soyez sans idées."
Nisargadatta Maharaj

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Elizabeth
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Re: Sophie, welcome here.

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:54 pm

Hi Sophie, I am asking you to leave! Just asking.
In my eyes you are always free.
It's just how soon would you like to get to that realization your self :-) and by which means?
I would suggest that you have come a long way here, and maybe now can move along one path.
With so much energy in one place, that could be powerful. Which might be scary, but it is interesting.
Our default, as you say so well, is to certain habits and tendencies. So if keeping many doors open is yours, you might want to see if that is serving you well, here.
This whole process is to see past our defaults (especially the one that keeps I thought alive).
So, I remain your friend here no matter what, even if it seems like I am pushing you.
Much love, Elizabeth

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Sophie
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Re: Sophie, welcome here.

Postby Sophie » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Elizabeth,

If I understnad well, you don't want anymore to go on with me?

From my side, I just have the feeling we started...and suddenly...I still don't want to believe it!!!...

Confirm me if it's that you want to say.

For the doors, i can close them all to get one more chance!!!

I don't find any words cause it comes as too much an expected (bad) surprise.

Love,
S
Ce "je" qui n'existait pas avant la naissance de votre corps et qui disparaîtra à sa mort, ce "je" limité par le temps, vous le considérez comme acquis. Transcendez les concepts et soyez sans idées."
Nisargadatta Maharaj

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Elizabeth
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Re: Sophie, welcome here.

Postby Elizabeth » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:40 am

Whoo, that came out wrong!
Sophie, I am NOT asking you to leave, was what was intended to say in the first sentence. Oh dear.
Maybe not such a mistake...we both commit now, focus.
So, we are both here now, you are willing to go on, and we closed a few doors, all the energy is in one room.
Phew, that was dramatic for us both!
Let's go back to work.
I would like you to keep in the direction you were going, looking at the thought, that I is just a thought.
Let's see if that can be true.
We have both been alive for a few decades, I think. And when we go looking for a self, we run into problems.
We always THOUGHT we had one.
Let us see if there is, in any way, a self to be found outside of our thoughts.
A separate thing. Something that experiences life, apart from life.
Much love, Sophie. Be well.

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Re: Sophie, welcome here.

Postby Elizabeth » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:58 pm

Sophie, still waiting.

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Sophie
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Re: Sophie, welcome here.

Postby Sophie » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:17 am

Hi Elizabeth!

I'am back...
I'am sorry to say I didn't get to any special point (that is maybe the reason i didn't answer earlier: waiting some AHA moment that didn't came!)

Inquiring, I felt Sophie like the energy/expression of a body/mind structure but not limited to this body/mind.
The image of a bird in a cage appeared. The cage being the limited body/mind. The door opened and the bird flied very far from the cage, feeling free and much space around: funny, at that moment, I felt some itching in the area of the third eye...
The cage became really small and i could see it like the personality and its conditionings.
Didn't have the desire to go back in but finally why not if i know the door is open...?
A question came out: What is the bird without the cage of personality?
Apart from this spontaneous visualisation, i felt this week-end less self-conscious but also first thoughts/doubts appeared about wether i'll be "able" to go through the gate.
Well, I'am here.
I'am happy to know I get soon a reply from remote Texas!!!
Thank in advance Elizabeth,
With gratitude,
S
Ce "je" qui n'existait pas avant la naissance de votre corps et qui disparaîtra à sa mort, ce "je" limité par le temps, vous le considérez comme acquis. Transcendez les concepts et soyez sans idées."
Nisargadatta Maharaj

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Elizabeth
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Re: Sophie, welcome here.

Postby Elizabeth » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:42 pm

Hi Elizabeth!

I'am back...
I'am sorry to say I didn't get to any special point (that is maybe the reason i didn't answer earlier: waiting some AHA moment that didn't came!)

Inquiring, I felt Sophie like the energy/expression of a body/mind structure but not limited to this body/mind.
The image of a bird in a cage appeared. The cage being the limited body/mind. The door opened and the bird flied very far from the cage, feeling free and much space around: funny, at that moment, I felt some itching in the area of the third eye...
The cage became really small and i could see it like the personality and its conditionings.
Didn't have the desire to go back in but finally why not if i know the door is open...?
A question came out: What is the bird without the cage of personality?
Apart from this spontaneous visualisation, i felt this week-end less self-conscious but also first thoughts/doubts appeared about wether i'll be "able" to go through the gate.
Well, I'am here.
I'am happy to know I get soon a reply from remote Texas!!!
Thank in advance Elizabeth,
With gratitude,
S
I am grateful you are here also, Sophie :-)
"What is the bird without the cage of personality?" Aha!
Sophie, without telling me what YOUR personality is, tell me what is A personality?
What is it made out of, how is it sustained over time, and what does it do for a 'you"?
Much love, Elizabeth

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Sophie
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Re: Sophie, welcome here.

Postby Sophie » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:59 am

Hi Elizabeth!

You're going to laugh:I'am back after a long family week-end to NIce Carnaval...Yesterday, let me confess you I've been "outrageously" ME!...I had some ideas about how to spend the day but my companion decided to take the reins, driving MY car (driving my freedom) and so, do not stop when i asked enthusiastically: "Let's visit this uphill village!", "Let's circle this cute little lake!", "Let's have breakfast near the seaside", "Let's stop and have a coffee in this village bar"...It ended with me in a very bad mood like a child to whom all toys have been systematically refused...I entertained then covered feelings of anger, frustations: If he wasn't there and not getting opposed to my spontaneous wishes, I'd live what I need to live in the moment in a flowing unfolding.
In the middle of the day, I claimed it was enough and took again the driver seat but as I was too tense and not in my "energy", I finally get lost on the way back and he had to drive again saying "where in a mess did you put us!"...Crazy day!!!!!!!!!!!
So, to reply to: "what is a personnality": it's a construction of name, surname, education, and a lot of stories making this evolutive construction full of wishes and desires to sustain his feeling of happiness. It's sustained over time because "I" think I'am in charge of this happiness. I don't understand "What does it do for a "YOU": for example yesterday,I just know this frustated Sophie has been like a black cloud on a shiny day!
But came a question in my mind: if liberated from the belief in this personnality, it wouldn't have prevented this body/mind that is real anyway to have desires and needs to do this better than that !...
If liberated, maybe I'd separate from my companion because we are not often aligned in our wishes!
So all this drove me fed up with all this questioning about personality, me/no me............!!!!
OOH LA LA..........as we say in french...
Give me some clues?
Hope you'll have smile (at least!) reading this post, dear Elizabeth,
Love,
S
Ce "je" qui n'existait pas avant la naissance de votre corps et qui disparaîtra à sa mort, ce "je" limité par le temps, vous le considérez comme acquis. Transcendez les concepts et soyez sans idées."
Nisargadatta Maharaj

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Elizabeth
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Re: Sophie, welcome here.

Postby Elizabeth » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:17 pm

Hi Sophie, of course I laughed!
Who has not had a day like that? :-) Swimming against the current. ALL the way.
You just asked the next question:

"So, to reply to: "what is a personnality": it's a construction of name, surname, education, and a lot of stories making this evolutive construction full of wishes and desires to sustain his feeling of happiness. It's sustained over time because "I" think I'am in charge of this happiness. I don't understand "What does it do for a "YOU": for example yesterday,I just know this frustated Sophie has been like a black cloud on a shiny day!
But came a question in my mind: if liberated from the belief in this personnality, it wouldn't have prevented this body/mind that is real anyway to have desires and needs to do this better than that !..."

Now, can you rewrite that day for us? At each point where the personality/character Sophie wanted something, please look at the thoughts vs reality. Is there a pattern of belief-thoughts happening?
If a 'you' did not insist on life going according to the storyline in the thoughts, what would have been different? Anything in reality? Or only the content of a thought?
Thoughts are real, we all have thoughts. But the character/personality of Sophie, can you find her except in the content of the thoughts?
Great stuff, Sophie. Love, Elizabeth

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Sophie
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Re: Sophie, welcome here.

Postby Sophie » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:45 am

Hi Elizabeth!

I was inspired yesterday to reply but have an urgency this days: ending my 2011 business accountability.
And also, I'am sick (get a cold!). It"s true I was feeling a lot of tensions in my body: maybe it's a way to release them...
I put myself too much pressure in "seeing"...like again an urgency!
I noticed also I really need more peace and silence those days to concentrate. I even go working to her friend's house and tomorow morning, I plan there to take time to reply.
I wonder maybe I'am resisting?
Glad to read again your comments,
Love, Love,
S
Ce "je" qui n'existait pas avant la naissance de votre corps et qui disparaîtra à sa mort, ce "je" limité par le temps, vous le considérez comme acquis. Transcendez les concepts et soyez sans idées."
Nisargadatta Maharaj

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Elizabeth
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Re: Sophie, welcome here.

Postby Elizabeth » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:18 pm

Hi Sophie. You are still working in the French forum, and you are not focused.
No point in continuing here, and I've told Michel.

Be well.
Love, Elizabeth


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