readyforfreedom

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readyforfreedom
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Re: readyforfreedom

Postby readyforfreedom » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:12 pm

Quite the opposite it seems. Selves become mega-selves (corporations, countries) and accidentally wreak havoc on the world in trying to control and accumulate, which are just behaviors of the self magnified through power. While their actions may serve the corporation, they ultimately end up fucking themselves and the rest of the world.
Touche. Perhaps its original purposefulness has given way to destruction and its time for a new evolutionary change and all the little “me”s in the world need to wake up.
How reality appears does not determine whether there is an entity experiencing it or not.
Ah, nice. This is bumper sticker worthy :D. So, now what?

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Space
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Re: readyforfreedom

Postby Space » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:22 am

Frankly, the desire to be free of self is a dream. There is no self and there never was. What we are doing is trying to invoke a recognition of this in the reality-space which is apparently "you," but which is truly free of any "you." We keep going with your questions, insights, resistance, or understanding until it's pretty damn clear that you don't exist. For that, I need you to express your current understanding or lack of it and we'll get on with the show. If you're out, a few people from the forum will check on your response, which should elaborate on your understand of the meaning that there is no self, and an explanation of what the apparent self is (should be original work inspired by the insight). If we agree that you get it, you get it, and there's a nice little 'after-care' program where we work out the nuances of liberation, with no more hierarchy, just people seeing what this means. Just keep engaging honestly. You're close.

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readyforfreedom
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Re: readyforfreedom

Postby readyforfreedom » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:38 pm

Where I’m at currently: the past 2-3 days have been interesting. Generally, there’s a sense of curiosity and relaxed pleasantness, which is all good. There is still a sense of not being quite done yet and an effort that is need to be put in to get this. There’s an expectation that there will be a point when this effort is no longer required. Like when you are a kid and hear rumors that Santa doesn’t really exist. You think about it and remember the little things that never really made sense. You get suspicious and apply some effort to prove or disprove this claim. Once you catch your parents in the act though, no more effort is required. You just see the truth for what it is.

A lot of humor has been arising when the superimposing habit is seen to have occurred (always just after it occurs, it is recognized). It is a relentless habit that keeps trying new places to force the “I” onto. Once seen, there’s often a thought “oh, there it is again”. Curiosity, lightness, playfulness, funny really. Then frustration, what’s missing, what else can be done? Contraction. Ah, there it is again. There is a stickiness to it. I’ve been asking: where is the stickiness now? It is constantly moving, finding new places to stick. The contraction and stickiness is felt more and more quickly. Constant diligence seems to be required.

I just read through the previous posts in this thread and I can see little places where the “I” gets superimposed. “I” am doing it now. Posts were read and thoughts about them occurred. An I is then superimposed trying to justify its existence through understanding. Relentless effort.

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readyforfreedom
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Re: readyforfreedom

Postby readyforfreedom » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:24 pm

The habit to superimpose “I” onto experience keeps getting repeated over and over. There is a claiming of experience as mine or happening to me. The next time the superimposition occurs, it is a “this is also mine” or “this is also me”. This gives the illusion of continuity, the illusion that it is the same “I” being superimposed. The habit is sticky. Once the “I” claims something, that thing sticks to the “I”, then the next thing sticks to the “I”. The “I” grows and grows. It fills everything, giving a sense of density. There are occasional glimpses (like the clock example above) during which the density softens. The clock ticking didn’t stick. With diligence it seems that new objects can be prevented from sticking to the “I” but what about all the previous things that are already stuck? They are not really stuck. They are just memories deeply associated with the sticking process. More thoughts infused with “I”.

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Space
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Re: readyforfreedom

Postby Space » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:09 am

I think you're getting it. What you're experiencing is all the conditioning of this I-ghost and I think you see it quite clearly. There is this tradition here that I'm going to stick to because it seems to work. Please check reality to see if there is any more a real I than there is a unicorn in the room. If that is clear can you please elaborate on what the I is. Is there any such entity?

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readyforfreedom
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Re: readyforfreedom

Postby readyforfreedom » Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:28 pm

There still seems to be a remnant of an I left. It seems like the I is the one that is able to catch the conditioned thoughts patterns, but always after the fact. Very rarely are the thoughts caught and seen through in real time. Upon reflection, the fleeting nature of thoughts can usually be seen and it can be seen that the thoughts contain within them a label of “I” but that the “I” in retrospect does not point to anything. The unicorn is a fiction but has a clear description. Images of a white beast with a spiraling horn, flowing white hair, possibly rainbows nearby. This collection of thought images has earned the label “unicorn”. Similarly, the “I” has a description … more like a feeling that is recognized. Once recognized the “I” label is automatically applied. What still feels like the I is the one that sees that this has just happened. Who sees this happening? How is this known? …. This is a thought. “Oh, I see it”. “You can’t trick me”. “How awesome am I that I just saw this conditioned pattern?” Pride, victory, accomplishment. Desire to get this right, to impress those reading this thread. Fear of not figuring this out. Fear of failing. Fear of being wrong, fooled, found out. Found out. What’s to find? What is being hidden? The emotional charge connected to the thought gives the thought its conviction or stickiness. Like cotton candy, haha. The thoughts are the wispy thread of sugar spinning in the big barrel. Nothing substantial until the cone is spun around and the wispy threads start to stick together and accumulate forming a solid mass. But when bitten into the solidity quickly dissolves. How clever of me. This is the analogy that will convince everyone that I am done with this. Fear and desire are driving these words. The fingers hesitate because what if I’m wrong … fear of being wrong, desire to be right and to gain victory over this puzzle. This will bring happiness and fulfillment. This is what I want. I am fear and desire.

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Space
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Re: readyforfreedom

Postby Space » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:48 pm

Haha. Very cool. I enjoyed reading that.

A couple things to say. First, let's take a step out of the need to prove something to others or accumulate some sort of accomplishment or praise for yourself. Can you see that these things don't improve or impoverish you if they come or don't come?

Because there's no one here for them to stick to.

Secondly, you say there is a remant of I left. That's fine. That remnant is not what is present here. That remnant is not reading this now. Let it be, like anything else.

The analogies are good and come from a creativity I respect immensely, but the I has nothing to do with it.

So. Before the need to be anything, to earn approval, to "get this," so from a place of humility, isn't it just as true and real that there is no entity experiencing this?

Is there anyone here to get clear about this?

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readyforfreedom
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Re: readyforfreedom

Postby readyforfreedom » Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:26 pm

This whole I-process is such a tired distraction. The I has nothing to do with it. The I has nothing to do with it. There are thoughts that this makes sense now. The I is not needed for any of this. Then the thoughts about seeing this after the fact and how that’s close but not getting it yet. Ok fine. No I necessary. This needs to be repeated over and over. The I process is so sticky and compelling, but remembering that the implied I is not necessary, that its an assumption, seems hard to remember. It is the opposite of sticky.

The remnant implies that there was once a bigger I that has been chipped away somehow. Nice thought. False assumption. This becomes dizzying (literally). The I-process seems quicker than ever, maybe it is just noticed more. There is a tension in the middle of the brain, a feeling of dizziness and disorientation. Thoughts arise that this is “my I” (whatever that means) fighting back. The I knows it is close to being destroyed, so it is fighting for survival. Who is the I fighting? I am fighting myself. Haha. Why would I do that? Tension in the body coupled with desire for resolution. No I necessary. I has nothing to do with the tension or with the dizziness. There is tension in the head and in the stomach. Related in cause and proximity perhaps, but this does not mean they are happening to any entity.

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Re: readyforfreedom

Postby Space » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:19 am

Yeah. A selfless revolution. Something needs to get reorganized but there's no telling what it is. Reality is changing. There is no inside. There is no me. I doesn't fight back. I just fights. There is no one for it to fight. There's no destroyer here. No duel between destroyer and destroyed. All this is the play of I, not perceived by anything.

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readyforfreedom
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Re: readyforfreedom

Postby readyforfreedom » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:22 pm

It felt like I was getting caught up in thinking and analyzing this stuff, so yesterday I focused more on looking and seeing, rather than thinking. It seems a lot of what has been typed above was coming from a place of analysis. I spent some time yesterday just walking outside and watching the movements of life. It was a breezy day so the trees were fascinating. The wind blows through and the trees just naturally dance and bend effortlessly. A sense of joy arises in the same way, then some thinking and analyzing. Nothing wrong with that when seen as part of the natural dance. There is more and more distance from the voice in the head. It was difficult to see that this voice is not me. It sounds like me and seems right all the time! Smart choice to identify with that. But it is just a thought like the rest … just a slightly louder thought or slightly more pronounced than other thoughts. It tends to fill up more of the head so is hard to ignore. For some reason it seemed like it was supposed to be ignored, but quite the opposite. When ignored, it is believed without question. When looked at closely, it is seen for what it is. Just a thought with no thinker behind it.

I originally thought that there would be a point when there would never be any effort to see that there’s no self in anything. Maybe that’s true, but now there are more and more moments of seeing the thoughts for what they are. It’s amusing really. Like little children just dying for some attention. Look at me, look at me! With more of these moments, these antics just seem less and less compelling.

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Elizabeth
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Re: readyforfreedom

Postby Elizabeth » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:24 am

It felt like I was getting caught up in thinking and analyzing this stuff, so yesterday I focused more on looking and seeing, rather than thinking. It seems a lot of what has been typed above was coming from a place of analysis. I spent some time yesterday just walking outside and watching the movements of life. It was a breezy day so the trees were fascinating. The wind blows through and the trees just naturally dance and bend effortlessly. A sense of joy arises in the same way, then some thinking and analyzing. Nothing wrong with that when seen as part of the natural dance. There is more and more distance from the voice in the head. It was difficult to see that this voice is not me. It sounds like me and seems right all the time! Smart choice to identify with that. But it is just a thought like the rest … just a slightly louder thought or slightly more pronounced than other thoughts. It tends to fill up more of the head so is hard to ignore. For some reason it seemed like it was supposed to be ignored, but quite the opposite. When ignored, it is believed without question. When looked at closely, it is seen for what it is. Just a thought with no thinker behind it.

I originally thought that there would be a point when there would never be any effort to see that there’s no self in anything. Maybe that’s true, but now there are more and more moments of seeing the thoughts for what they are. It’s amusing really. Like little children just dying for some attention. Look at me, look at me! With more of these moments, these antics just seem less and less compelling.
Hi, Ready. The above was written this morning. Thought without a thinker.
Let's move that to the body. Is there movement without a mover? Like the trees?
Looking forward to your reply.

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Space
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Re: readyforfreedom

Postby Space » Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:51 am

Hey friend,

I'm on my way out the door for a little adventure and won't have internet access for 6 weeks. My friend Elizabeth will be working with you. Sorry to cut short like this, and I'm even more sorry that you have tasted the best of the best (me) in this industry, and now have to resort to something less, but I can testify that Elizabeth is like second best, so you and she will do great. Also, remember that it's really all about you baby. Just see what's real. You've seen it. Just keep looking and it'll get clearer and you will trust it someday soon. Keep it up. Thank you Elizabeth for taking over.

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readyforfreedom
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Re: readyforfreedom

Postby readyforfreedom » Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:50 pm

Hi, Ready. The above was written this morning. Thought without a thinker.
Let's move that to the body. Is there movement without a mover? Like the trees?
Looking forward to your reply.
Definitely movement without a mover. There are the movements that are done every day ... waking up, showering, dressing, commuting to work ... totally habit and automatic. No decision is made to do these movements. They just happen out of habit. Then there's a whole bunch of small bodily movements that go mostly unnoticed. I've been keeping my attention on the body all day today. So many times, my hand would reach up to scratch an itch or move to my pockets or my leg would cross or uncross. All only noticed after it was done. No mover deciding to move. The body just doing its thing. Even now, thoughts are in the head with a desire to convey a message in this post. The fingers bounce smoothly and easily from key to key. No mover behind the fingers. If there was, it would only get in the way! Better to just let the fingers do what they know how to do.

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readyforfreedom
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Re: readyforfreedom

Postby readyforfreedom » Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:53 pm

Hey friend,

I'm on my way out the door for a little adventure and won't have internet access for 6 weeks. My friend Elizabeth will be working with you. Sorry to cut short like this, and I'm even more sorry that you have tasted the best of the best (me) in this industry, and now have to resort to something less, but I can testify that Elizabeth is like second best, so you and she will do great. Also, remember that it's really all about you baby. Just see what's real. You've seen it. Just keep looking and it'll get clearer and you will trust it someday soon. Keep it up. Thank you Elizabeth for taking over.
6 Weeks with no internet! More power to you. Thanks for all your help so far. Don't worry, in 6 weeks time I will have taken over your throne as best of the best. Catch you when you return...

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Elizabeth
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Re: readyforfreedom

Postby Elizabeth » Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:51 pm

Hi, Ready. The above was written this morning. Thought without a thinker.
Let's move that to the body. Is there movement without a mover? Like the trees?
Looking forward to your reply.
Definitely movement without a mover. There are the movements that are done every day ... waking up, showering, dressing, commuting to work ... totally habit and automatic. No decision is made to do these movements. They just happen out of habit. Then there's a whole bunch of small bodily movements that go mostly unnoticed. I've been keeping my attention on the body all day today. So many times, my hand would reach up to scratch an itch or move to my pockets or my leg would cross or uncross. All only noticed after it was done. No mover deciding to move. The body just doing its thing. Even now, thoughts are in the head with a desire to convey a message in this post. The fingers bounce smoothly and easily from key to key. No mover behind the fingers. If there was, it would only get in the way! Better to just let the fingers do what they know how to do.
Ah, that is my experience also.
Looks like time to sum up here. If there are any doubts on an item, just check to see if it's true or not.

Thoughts arise without a thinker. They pass through, and leave. Impermanent.
If thoughts stop for a bit, no-one dies. The thoughts just start up again. Was there an I present at that time?
The I is a linguistic habit, a rider to thought.
It also serves to link thoughts into a coherent, if unreliable story.
Body manages many functions without conscious reference to an I.
In fact, movement is seen to occur without volition or direction from an I.
No doer.
No chooser.
Just movement.

I hope you checked. It's important to verify in experience.
If you cannot find an I doing or directing, what is actually there?
What has been behind the illusion all along?
And for this, we LOOK.

We sit, stand, walk, make tea, chat on the phone and starkly apply as much energy, determination, and absolute honesty as we can muster to see this in life. We don't slack off. We bring a level of intensity to looking that precludes any kind of lying or easy answers.
It's experiential, not intellectual. It's what is, not 'about' what is. Reality.
You have it all, Ready!
Your name is perfect.
Love, E


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