readyforfreedom

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
Space
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:40 am

Re: Re: readyforfreedom

Postby Space » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:58 pm

What brought me here is a sense that there is something not quite right with how life seems to be working. I am looking for freedom from this sense. I am looking for everything to make sense. Having investigated this type of thing through reading, meditation, etc. I tend to believe that the self is an illusion and that illusion can be seen through. Now, with effort, I can closely look and be somewhat convinced that this thing called I really is an illusion. I expect that there will be a shift after which no effort to see the illusion will be required. I expect that this effortlessness will come with a sense of relief and general well being.
There is something absolutely wrong with how life is working. Everyone can feel it, but we're so deeply embedded in the flow that it's hard to step out and get a good picture of it and see exactly what's wrong and what's good. So you're coming from a good place. Let's keep going. I do think things become clearer after this.
I just read what I typed above. Everything I type supports this fantasy world.
Great! So let's drop the assumption that we're even in the real world. We're in a fantasy world, like we're characters in a book or something. And we hear from someone somewhere that we're actually in a book. (who put the idea there??) And we're like, oh hell naw. And somehow we get this crazy idea into our heads that we're going to get out of the book. Can you tell me, based on your readings and your thoughts at the moment, what is wrong with this notion of waking up from the delusion of self?

User avatar
readyforfreedom
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Boston, USA

Re: readyforfreedom

Postby readyforfreedom » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:23 pm

Great! So let's drop the assumption that we're even in the real world. We're in a fantasy world, like we're characters in a book or something. And we hear from someone somewhere that we're actually in a book. (who put the idea there??) And we're like, oh hell naw. And somehow we get this crazy idea into our heads that we're going to get out of the book. Can you tell me, based on your readings and your thoughts at the moment, what is wrong with this notion of waking up from the delusion of self?
I'd say that it is wrong is the assumption that there is something outside of the book to escape to. From the point of view of the character there is only the book.

User avatar
Space
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:40 am

Re: readyforfreedom

Postby Space » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:17 am

Cool. Who or what made the character up? Are you the character?

User avatar
Space
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:40 am

Re: readyforfreedom

Postby Space » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:36 am

Also, keep me updated on the general affect, questions, frustrations, achievements, skepticism and insight that come up.

By the way, I'm Kian from Ohio! This doesn't have to be totally impersonal. Id like to hear more about your spiritual path so far, and what you sense has been of use to you and what is just extra baggage and false concepts. Sorry I've done this all out of order. Just want to make sure we feel connected and sincere and very open in our inquiry process.

User avatar
readyforfreedom
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Boston, USA

Re: readyforfreedom

Postby readyforfreedom » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:58 am

Cool. Who or what made the character up? Are you the character?
No one seems to be the "author". The character is created based on conditions. It appears as if I am the character but more accurate I think to say that I have a bad habit of identifying with the character.

User avatar
Space
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:40 am

Re: readyforfreedom

Postby Space » Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:30 am

No one is identifying with the character. It is just the nature of a character to be identified with his own point of view. The character appears in awareness, but awareness is not personal. In liberation, the character simply loses its grip over the free-flow and functioning of awareness. It can be seen as very very small sometimes. Like "ha ha! It was just this little 'me' all along."

So can you tell me where you're at with this inquiry now?

User avatar
readyforfreedom
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Boston, USA

Re: readyforfreedom

Postby readyforfreedom » Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:04 pm

Also, keep me updated on the general affect, questions, frustrations, achievements, skepticism and insight that come up.

By the way, I'm Kian from Ohio! This doesn't have to be totally impersonal. Id like to hear more about your spiritual path so far, and what you sense has been of use to you and what is just extra baggage and false concepts. Sorry I've done this all out of order. Just want to make sure we feel connected and sincere and very open in our inquiry process.
Hey Kian - Jarrod from Boston here. I appreciate your help so far. Your style so far has been resonating with me. I've had different phases of meditation since the late 90s. For a long time I never had a real sense of why, but it just attracted me. But I started and stopped for decades until a couple of years ago. Then I gained a lot of momentum in meditation practice, sitting every day, speaking with teachers on a regular basis, reading as much as I could. Nearly a year ago I was on a weekend retreat and had a "peak" experience that was pretty profound. I've had many little things happen over the past couple of years to make this stuff interesting and keep my momentum going, but this one thing cut a bit deeper than the rest. Something shifted but no clear sense of any sort of no self experience. It was a dropping away of a lot of baggage that lasted quite awhile, but doesn't seem to have been anything permanent. I found myself trying to regain this experience over the subsequent months. A lot of striving and seeking, etc. What you guys are doing here was attractive since it seems to cut to the chase and directly attack this sense of self thing that seems to create a sort of blockage. That's a short summary of where I'm coming from at the moment.

User avatar
readyforfreedom
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Boston, USA

Re: readyforfreedom

Postby readyforfreedom » Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:13 pm

No one is identifying with the character. It is just the nature of a character to be identified with his own point of view. The character appears in awareness, but awareness is not personal. In liberation, the character simply loses its grip over the free-flow and functioning of awareness. It can be seen as very very small sometimes. Like "ha ha! It was just this little 'me' all along."

So can you tell me where you're at with this inquiry now?
Ah, it is interesting how the character identification continues relentlessly. Some onion layers seem to be peeling back here, but at each new layer, the identification process starts anew. Clearly, I am not choosing to do this but it is the nature of a character, as you say. At what point does the character become small as you describe? It seems that after peeling back enough layers, it will eventually shift, but this is just a concept possibly getting in the way. Time to be diligent in watching for the identification process. What I've noticed over the past few hours is that if I'm just going about my business, the identification process isn't always present. There's no separate me until there needs to be for whatever reason. Once it is there, it is convincing and gives the impression that it is always there, but it isn't truly always there. More evidence of its illusory nature.

I've heard awareness described as not personal before but this is something I have not yet grasped on any experiential level.

User avatar
Space
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:40 am

Re: readyforfreedom

Postby Space » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:53 pm

Excellent insight! The sense of self is not always there. What I would suggest looking for is the gap between two arising senses of yourself, whether that gap is a moment long, or two hours long, or five minutes long. Reflect on that gap. What is there? It is almost frighteningly empty. Your life is frighteningly empty of you. And the self doesn't want anyone to see this. Friends, family, spouse, clients, government, whatever. It's like, "No nothingness to see here! I'm here doing my thing! Me, Jarrod! I'm here living my life, don't worry, move on." It almost feels like a crime not to be here. Lemme know what you find. And try to notice what this self thing is. Why does it fill the emptiness up with itself and is it necessary for things to go on?

User avatar
readyforfreedom
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Boston, USA

Re: readyforfreedom

Postby readyforfreedom » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:35 am

Nice. I need to do some further reflection but initially it seems like this self thing is some sort of defense mechanism. Against what I'm not yet sure. The past couple of hours have been difficult to find any sort of self-ing going on. I suppose that's a good thing.

User avatar
Space
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:40 am

Re: readyforfreedom

Postby Space » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:11 am

Great. So you've discovered that the self is a defense mechanism. Again, I would suggest it's like some dude trying to block everyone else's vision so that they can't see... well... that there's absolutely nothing behind him. The self has no support from the universe. You look behind the self to see what's keeping it propped up or what it's protecting, and you find there's just nothing there at all. It starts to make sense, doesn't it? I need to be "big" and "superior," I need to be "respected," "wealthy," "appreciated." What sort of entity would need all sorts of things like that if it were inherently resting on and supported by some sort of immense value? It has no value. It can crumble in a moment's time. That's why this method actually works (I never understood that before now! :D).

Anyway, do your thinkin'. Get back to me. I'm enjoying this and feel that you are readyforfreedom :D.

User avatar
readyforfreedom
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Boston, USA

Re: readyforfreedom

Postby readyforfreedom » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:48 pm

I’m glad the insights are flowing both ways here… So, I’ll relay something that happened last night. I was making some tea and just waiting for the steeping to finish. Standing in the kitchen I just listened and waited. There was a clock ticking and my attention just locked in on that. There was a growing sense of calm and my body just really relaxed as I stood there. There were a couple of faint thoughts popping up. I honestly don’t remember what they were about but I recall that they seemed distant and then faded. Your comment earlier about the self being small at times made sense at that moment. Those thoughts faded and then there was just the clock again. If this is the gap you speak of then it isn’t that there’s nothing there. The ticking was there, but just the ticking. No additional commentary superimposed over it.

User avatar
Space
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:40 am

Re: readyforfreedom

Postby Space » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:54 pm

Fantastico!!

A glimpse into the !-ness of reality without a me or I. Yes, reality is just a ticking clock. Just a door. A sun. A crisp clean breeze. A fly nuzzing through a tree. Punctuated throughout the day, by a sense, of a point, of view. How did so much bullshit get itself into orbit around this sense, of a POV?!

User avatar
readyforfreedom
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Boston, USA

Re: readyforfreedom

Postby readyforfreedom » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:04 pm

It seems that the sense of a POV has some relevant purpose. It works for practical purposes, so it must have some kind of evolutionary purpose behind it.

So, a glimpse … how does this glimpse become permanent?

User avatar
Space
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:40 am

Re: readyforfreedom

Postby Space » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:17 pm

Quite the opposite it seems. Selves become mega-selves (corporations, countries) and accidentally wreak havoc on the world in trying to control and accumulate, which are just behaviors of the self magnified through power. While their actions may serve the corporation, they ultimately end up fucking themselves and the rest of the world.

The glimpse doesn't become permanent. The glimpse was a glimpse and now is now. How reality appears does not determine whether there is an entity experiencing it or not.


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests