Stop the search

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Nunes
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Stop the search

Postby Nunes » Wed May 04, 2016 1:50 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
Well I have been a seeker for 4 years after having what I think was an "awakening experience". It happened, I wasn't able to understand it. The only thing I knew after that was that I had to find the truth. While having that experience I could see that I wasn't separate from anything. I remember thinking "there is no one behind me, listening to me.. All there was, was that". This was 4 years ago so i can't be as precise with language but all I can say is that what I saw was nothing like any other experience.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:
Freedom. Understanding reality. To find what I really am. To have peace with this moment knowing that there is nothing else to get as I am already free. I want to find the truth. I want to know what that experience really meant. I want to have the freedom I felt while having that experience.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
I have read a lot about the subject of non duality. I have heard from a lot of so called spirituals teachers. Which I have to say had got me confused a lot at times. Each saying a different thing. Lately I have just been listening to Tony parsons, which seem to be sharing the same message as you guys.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what? On a scale from one to ten (ten being most ready). : 11

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ElPortal
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Re: Stop the search

Postby ElPortal » Wed May 04, 2016 6:47 am

HI there, welcome to LU and thanks for your introductory information, Nunes.

In this investigation we are not looking into getting into any new state, nor getting anything new; we are simply looking into what already is, always has ben , and can only ever be the case. If you are up for this, then I may be able to accompany you.

Please let me know is that is what you are here for.

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Nunes
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Re: Stop the search

Postby Nunes » Wed May 04, 2016 5:52 pm

Hi Mark,

That is all I want. After this years of searching I kind of have the humility to recognise that I cannot do it on my own. If I could, I would know the truth by now.

I am ready to question my beliefs. I am ready to sacrifice anything in order to find out what I am.

I would be very grateful if you could guide me.

Thank you
Claudia

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ElPortal
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Re: Stop the search

Postby ElPortal » Thu May 05, 2016 5:37 am

Hi Claudia.

Thanks for that: sounds promising.

Now, before we go further let's just clear up some basic housework around having a dialogue here:-

A few guidelines: look to post regularly (at least every other day) or post to say if a break is needed. Please set aside any other teachings (including reading, listening to talks etc) and spiritual practices during our inquiry together (other than a daily meditation or yoga). Please give all your attention to this investigation. I am not here to teach or coach you, I will ask questions: your agreement is to LOOK, and to answer from firsthand direct experience in this moment, rather than from intellectually trying to work anything out. OK?

If you could confirm that you have read the LU disclaimer, here: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/
and the article on direct experience, here: http://liberationunleashed.com/articles ... xperience/
and that you would still like me to guide you - then we shall continue!

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Nunes
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Re: Stop the search

Postby Nunes » Thu May 05, 2016 10:42 am

Hi Mark,

YUp.. All ready to go.
Thank you

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ElPortal
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Re: Stop the search

Postby ElPortal » Fri May 06, 2016 6:24 am

Ok Claudia,

So let's start by noticing the difference between two 'modes' of experience, one direct and the other via the mode of thinking.

Please sit for two minutes and simply notice all that happens.
Make a list of all that is experienced.
Then, when you have finished, after each item on the list add either "(E" or "(T)".

(E) is for each item which is experienced via the senses eg. "The soft feeling of chair under legs (E)"
(T) is for those items which are thought eg "What shall I eat for dinner this evening?"(T) or 'Today at work when I said to my boss 'you are a cow', will that lose my job?" (T)

So here we are noticing the difference between all that IS happening ie the firsthand RAW experience in this moment (E), on the one hand, and all that is NOT actually happening except in thinking ie thought matter such as explanations, assumptions, mental commentary, interpretation, memories, speculations, mental inferences, beliefs, intellectual debating etc etc (T)

Each time when you read, consider and respond to my posts, I am interested not just in your answers to what I write, but just as much, if not more, in any sensations and reactions which come up, eg if there is a tightening in the chest, a relaxation feeling, or a pressure in the head etc, so please let me know about these too ok?

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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ElPortal
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Re: Stop the search

Postby ElPortal » Fri May 06, 2016 6:26 am

Claudia, I forgot to say (which maybe is obvious) let me have the list of items with (E)s and (T)s added.

:-)

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Nunes
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Location: United Kingdom

Re: Stop the search

Postby Nunes » Fri May 06, 2016 9:04 pm

Hi Mark,

So here is the list:

- sound the music coming from the room downstairs < E
- sound of the pen touching the table writing this list < E
-commentary in the head, feeling annoyed that so much noise can be heard while I am trying to concentrate < T
-awareness of the body sitting on the chair< E
- sound of noises coming from outside < E
-feeling the air coming in and out < E
- feeling my feet touching the floor <E
- Commentary in the head about the fact that I am working tomorrow on a Saturday < T
- Feeling of gratitude about you, and the whole liberation unleashed "team" < T


Thank you

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ElPortal
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Re: Stop the search

Postby ElPortal » Sat May 07, 2016 6:12 am

HI Claudia

Thanks for the list: doing great.

Now, before we move on from it, I would like to review the list and just rewrite a couple of things:-
- sound the music coming from the room downstairs < E
- sound of the pen touching the table writing this list < E
-commentary in the head, feeling annoyed that so much noise can be heard while I am trying to concentrate < T
-awareness of the body sitting on the chair< E
- sound of noises coming from outside < E
-feeling the air coming in and out < E
- feeling my feet touching the floor <E
- Commentary in the head about the fact that I am working tomorrow on a Saturday < T
- Feeling of gratitude about you, and the whole liberation unleashed "team" < T
1. Please re-write all the thoughts (T) as follows: 'the thought: "I am working tomorrow on a Saturday"(T) etc etc.
2. In the (E)'s if you find any 'I''s or 'my's (there aren't many) please re-write the phrase without those words (eg you could write 'these' instead or find another way to re-frame the phrase.
3. A couple of the items eg
-commentary in the head, feeling annoyed that so much noise can be heard while I am trying to concentrate < T
and
- Feeling of gratitude about you, and the whole liberation unleashed "team" < T
seem to include some (T) and some (E), so could you try to split those into two, one with the (T) and the other with the (E).

Then, when you have finished re-writing the list, read through it slowly and notice any changes in how it feels. Let me know.

As you read this post, and do the exercise, please notice any sensations which come up in the body, and report this back to me. Get used to doing this as part of all responses in our investigation together.

Take your time.

Thanks

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Nunes
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Re: Stop the search

Postby Nunes » Sat May 07, 2016 10:00 pm

Hi Mark,
1
- I am working on a Saturday
- I am annoyed at the noise that can heard from downstairs
- I am grateful for you and the whole liberation team
- I am hearing the noise in the head criticising all the noises that are happening.
- I am trying to concentrate
2
-feeling of the feet touching the floor

3
- commentary in the head < E
- feeling annoyed < T


I am unsure if this is what you have asked for Mark, sorry

Before going further can you please let me know if this is what you asked for?

Thank you

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Nunes
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Location: United Kingdom

Re: Stop the search

Postby Nunes » Sat May 07, 2016 10:01 pm

Hi Mark,
1
- I am working on a Saturday
- I am annoyed at the noise that can heard from downstairs
- I am grateful for you and the whole liberation team
- I am hearing the noise in the head criticising all the noises that are happening.
- I am trying to concentrate
2
-feeling of the feet touching the floor

3
- commentary in the head < E
- feeling annoyed < T


I am unsure if this is what you have asked for Mark, sorry

Before going further can you please let me know if this is what you asked for?

Thank you

User avatar
Nunes
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed May 04, 2016 1:45 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Stop the search

Postby Nunes » Sat May 07, 2016 10:02 pm

Hi Mark,
1
- I am working on a Saturday
- I am annoyed at the noise that can heard from downstairs
- I am grateful for you and the whole liberation team
- I am hearing the noise in the head criticising all the noises that are happening.
- I am trying to concentrate
2
-feeling of the feet touching the floor

3
- commentary in the head < E
- feeling annoyed < T


I am unsure if this is what you have asked for Mark, sorry

Before going further can you please let me know if this is what you asked for?

Thank you[/quote][/quote]

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ElPortal
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Re: Stop the search

Postby ElPortal » Sun May 08, 2016 5:14 am

Hi Claudia

Thanks for that response.

I see that you struggled a bit with the 'quote' function. There are some instructions here which may help you on this:- http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Don't worry, Claudia: w
hat you wrote is partly what I asked for. Answer 2 is perfect. Let's go through the others to make sure that we are really understanding each other:-
1
- I am working on a Saturday
- I am annoyed at the noise that can heard from downstairs
- I am grateful for you and the whole liberation team
- I am hearing the noise in the head criticising all the noises that are happening.
- I am trying to concentrate
Please write each one as follows (I'll take your first line as an example):-
Instead of - I am working on a Saturday, write as follows
'The thought: "I am working on a Saturday" (T)
(add the labels (E) or (T) after each item).
So please write out the whole list in that style.

Now the third question:-
3
- commentary in the head < E
- feeling annoyed < T
A. Is commentary in the head really (E) or (T)? Is feeling annoyed really (T) or (E). What is the physical sensation of 'feeling annoyed'? Where is it felt in the body? Try to describe it?

Also I asked to divide this one into (T) and (E):-
- Feeling of gratitude about you, and the whole liberation unleashed "team" < T
Which part is (E) and which part is thinking (T)? What are the physical symptoms of the gratitude? What are the thoughts ('The thought: "LU... etc").

Ok?

In these exercises we are simplly noticing thought processes AS thought processes (T) and noticing what are the actual sensations (E). Seeing the difference between the two. This will then help the rest of our investigation.

You're doing fine, Claudia

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Nunes
Posts: 130
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Location: United Kingdom

Re: Stop the search

Postby Nunes » Sun May 08, 2016 10:10 pm

Hi Mark,

thank you for the clarification. So here we go:

1.
- The Thought : I am working on a Saturday - T
- The thought: I am annoyed at the noise than can be heard from downstairs -T/E
- The thought: I am grateful for you and the whole liberation team - T
- The thought: I am hearing the noise in the head criticising all the noises that are happening - T /E
- The thought: I am trying to concentrate T

3.
- commentary in the head - T
- feeling annoyed - E

I am trying to bring my awareness to the feelings in the body as you asked but, for this exercise, the feeling of being annoyed at the noises did not have much impact on the body. All it happened was a simple rejection of what was happening. Not so much of a contraction in the body or anything. The only thing I have felt, and perhaps is worth mentioning to you is that the other nights I was pondering on what you said on the very first email. That had an impact on me. You said " we are simply looking into what already is, always has been and can only ever be the case".
Then a thought popped " what if, I don't exist" what if the only thing I need to see is what already is. Then my first reaction was to "breath"!!!! and every time I put my mind into this, my first reaction is to check if I am here, right after a looking for a body sensation, air etc. I know this is weird. But I thought I'd share it with you.

- feeling of gratitude about you and the whole liberation unleashed team. -E
- thought about you- T
- thought about the LU team - T

When I feel grateful I feel an expansion in the body- don't know how to put it really. But yes, an expansion, a freedom etc

If there is anything I miss Mark, please let me know.

Thank you
Claudia

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ElPortal
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Re: Stop the search

Postby ElPortal » Mon May 09, 2016 6:43 am

HI Claudia

Really excellent. That was just what was needed. Well done!
Then a thought popped " what if, I don't exist" what if the only thing I need to see is what already is. Then my first reaction was to "breath"!!!! and every time I put my mind into this, my first reaction is to check if I am here, right after a looking for a body sensation, air etc. I know this is weird. But I thought I'd share it with you.
Thanks for sharing this. Doesn't sound weird at all.
I am trying to bring my awareness to the feelings in the body as you asked but, for this exercise, the feeling of being annoyed at the noises did not have much impact on the body. All it happened was a simple rejection of what was happening. Not so much of a contraction in the body or anything.
So, just before we move on from this, I would like you to consider:-
So, if there was no impact in the body, it was surely only a thought then? (T).
If there was 'not much' impact on the body, then there was a little sensation somewhere? (E)
What does 'a simple rejection' actually feel like (E) (where are the sensations, what are they, how do they manifest physically?) Or is this 'simple rejection' a 'cold intellectual thought' (T)?
Try to have another look and tell me honestly what comes up in the raw firsthand sensorial experience, ok?

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.


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