Please Guide Me

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pranavsood
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Please Guide Me

Postby pranavsood » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:24 pm

Hi,

Im Pranav, a 24 yo from India. About an year and a half back, I had a dialogue with Lib on this forum. The dialogue can be found at :

liberationunleashed.com/nation/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3102

Unfortunately the dialogue "ran out of steam".

However, over the past one and a half year i've continued making efforts to grow spiritually and have gone over this dialogue multiple times.

Here are a few things i've come to realise from the dialogue :

1) i've seen that we have very little control over our decisions and actions. However, i still believe that we have just a tiny sliver of control..although "intellectualy" i know that this is likely to be false...


2) i've observed my thoughts and seen that "i" am not my thoughts and have no control over them.

3) I've no control over my emotions.
Its the emotions (or the desire to experience certain emotions) which dictates most of our choices and decisions.

3) the mind is simply " a story" gone way out of control. It produces desires and makes us run after them. It makes us run after "stuff" / ppl so that we may experience positive emotions and then we try and re create that "high" of the positive emotions by running after more stuff/ ppl.

4) i've experienced that most (all)of our worries are due to a sense of "I" . Once we stop worrying for ourselves, we re likely to do just as fine (or probably better) and be much happier.

I've also realised that i have some expectations from being 'free' of illusion which i hadn't realised previously.

It'd be great if Lib or any other member of this forum could guide me onward on my spiritual quest.

I'd be indebted.

Thanks
Pranav.

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pranavsood
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Re: Please Guide Me

Postby pranavsood » Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:48 am

Hi
Just checking if i need to re-register and fill-up the questionnaire. Coz i looked at the other new threads and they seem to begin with a few stock questions answered by the seeker.

Since i was already registered an year and a half back, so i simply started a new thread to request a guide(the old way).
Please tell me if i need to re-register.

Thanks
Pranav

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Ilona
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Re: Please Guide Me

Postby Ilona » Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:05 pm

Hi Pranav.

Welcome back. :)
You don't need to reregister, we cha have a chat and see where this takes.

Great list of what you realised so far. I like what you said in number 4).
We can take it form here and keep digging.
So tell me, how do you imagine this being free of illusion would look like? What would change? What do you expect that you would be free from?

Kind regards
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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pranavsood
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Re: Please Guide Me

Postby pranavsood » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:06 pm

Hi Ilona,

Glad to have you as my guide.:)

a) As with most other people, I was drawn to spirituality at one of the lowest points in my life. By God's grace/good fortune, things are much better now. But still there's an expectation that I'll take decisions that are "right" for me.

b) there's an expectation that i'd be happy. Or as has been my past experience, less affected by outside events.

What do i expect to be free from ??
I don't know...sadness and negative emotions maybe..?

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pranavsood
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Re: Please Guide Me

Postby pranavsood » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:14 pm

Also, is there a way I can set my account up so that i can get email alerts if any post is made on this thread...??
Couldn't figure out if this is possible or not..

Thanks
Pranav

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Ilona
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Re: Please Guide Me

Postby Ilona » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:16 pm

Thank you for reply! when you get into editor window, at the bottom there are options and you can click a little window that says to notify when i reply.


ok, so you have an expectation that there will be no sadness and negative emotions.. interesting.. because it's not about happy feelings. it's about seeing what is as it is without a filter of a feeler. good emotions, bad, all come and go, it's not a gate to happy ever after. see, it's about a recognition, not a state. it's not about getting rid of unwanted emotions. or getting rid of anything, in fact.

ok, let's see where you are.. please read the bellow statement and write down your immediate reaction. what was resisted the most? where in the body the contraction was felt? or was is a nice opening feeling?

let this thought in, play with it.
there is no separate self, no doer, no thinker, no feeler, no person, witness, controller of the life. no i at all as in zero. no one to manage a separate piece of life.. there is life flowing freely, and everything is happening without you as a director of the show.

write what shows up as it shows up. what would be lost if that is true?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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pranavsood
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Re: Please Guide Me

Postby pranavsood » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:31 am

Hi Ilona,

I already had that window checked. Anyways, that's unimportant.

there is no separate self, no doer, no thinker, no feeler, no person, witness, controller of the life. no i at all as in zero. no one to manage a separate piece of life.. there is life flowing freely, and everything is happening without you as a director of the show.
The first thing that happens when i hear this thought is relief and exhilaration. No pressure of taking the "right" decision. No guilt if I took the "wrong" one! coz i didn't take the decision...and probably there is no "I" as well.
If this thought is true, Im free! I don't have to worry about where Im going! I can just strap on my seat belt and enjoy the ride...

And just right at the end i can notice my teeth clenching slightly, coz (Im having a wild guess here abt the reason for clenching)
I haven't been able to "see" this / prove this to myself for the past one year...

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pranavsood
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Re: Please Guide Me

Postby pranavsood » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:32 am

Thanks a lot.:),
Pranav

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pranavsood
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Re: Please Guide Me

Postby pranavsood » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:55 am

what would be lost if that is true?
I guess "me, the decision maker" is lost.....He gets fired! :D
Seriously, I won't be the decision-taker anymore....I don't know what else do i use "I" for...

Gone will be a lot of stress and anxiety.

Coz, now that i think of it, that's my chief pre-occupation, taking "correct" decisions!

Haha...I know how crazy it sounds...

Thanks,
Pranav

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Ilona
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Re: Please Guide Me

Postby Ilona » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:19 am

Great work, thank you Pranav. This alleged decision maker has been spotted!
Let's examine it closer.

Look back into the story of your life and find one important decision that you made. Then ask this- could you have made a different decision at given circumstances? Was that the best and only way to proceed? Was there any free will involved, as in could you choose independently of situation? Was it you that made a choice or situation made you take the only way possible? Can you choose something that is not "right"?

Write what you notice doing this exercise. Then bring focus to hear now. Can anything be different than what it already is? How do you know that? What is that made the choose to be here now? Does it make a difference if you think that you made the choise to be here or not?

Then imagine yourself at the same time tomorrow, what are you doing? Does imagining it makes it happen or you are gonna wait and see what really happens?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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pranavsood
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Re: Please Guide Me

Postby pranavsood » Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:29 am

Hi Ilona,

I looked back at the story of my life. I remember the time when i just got out of college and had two job offers.
I chose the one which, rationally, i shouldn't have chosen. I simply couldn't bring myself to choose the other one.
That was the first time in my life I placed (or rather was forced to place) trust in my instinct over reason.

Looking back, and through my experiences in the past one year, I can see the decisions we make are often the "only" ways to proceed. However, I have my doubts about certain specific situations. Let me illustrate by taking the example of my latest "decision point".

So there is this four day trek in Himalayas to a remote place with no cell reception/electricity. I have been preparing for this trek for the past two months. And have been dreaming about it for the past one year.
I was supposed to leave for this trek this weekend. However, I started this dialogue with you. Now, Im not sure
if I should "break" the momentum of the dialogue, so early in the process, by going on the trek.

So i have been deliberating on this.....but, while typing this, I just realised that I've already decided not to go. I was just looking for a reason other than LU to cancel it..!

(This example didn't really work out, but im leaving it here anyway.)
(P.S. would it be okay to go?)


I'll think through the day and try and find an example where i think that i have a choice and report back.

Also, is it ok if i answer the rest of the questions once I have the the example in place? coz then they would make more sense. Or would u rather have them now?

Thanks a lot,
Pranav

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Ilona
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Re: Please Guide Me

Postby Ilona » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:52 am

Dear Pranav,
You don't need my permission to go! You can go or not go! It's an excellent example. Can you know what happens next till it happens? My advice, do what happens next, that's the only way forward. And watch out for the choise maker, it he there? I like how Alan watts puts it about decision making, he says it's a wobble. The choice is made, and we wobble about it. Anyway, if you go, that is not a problem for this conversation, we can continue once you come back. I can give an example exercise for the field trip while you are in the mountains.

Meanwhile please continue with the questions from my previous post.
Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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pranavsood
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Re: Please Guide Me

Postby pranavsood » Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:45 pm

Hi Ilona,
Sorry I've been busy and unable to further work on the dialogue. However, I very much remain in the dialogue.
Will continue the dialogue tomorrow.


Regards,
Pranav

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pranavsood
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Re: Please Guide Me

Postby pranavsood » Fri Dec 25, 2015 9:37 pm

Hi Ilona,

After searching for a day and a half, i've finally found one example where i think i had complete freedom to decide.
It was yesterday afternoon, and i had to choose between booking my travel tickets and writing an email.

Since the amount of satisfaction/positive emotions i got from both the tasks was about the same, i literally could choose anything. Just to be doubly sure, i spent some time writing the email before delibrately wandering off to book my tickets.

Now, i think, one could argue quite reasonably, that this was just one time when i felt equally happy doing both the things, typically its straight-away one or the other. And this was just one occasion in one and a half days search where i felt i really had a choice. But can you help me out with this one? where am i deceiving myself? where is the "i " playing tricks?

Also, here are the answers to the other questions :
Can anything be different than what it already is?
No, i don't think so....although if one can go against the emotions involved, it might lead to a different outcome. But I've done that, and its really difficult.
What is that made the choose to be here now?
I guess certain emotions made me act in a certain way and i got here. I don't think there's a lot of choice involved.
Does it make a difference if you think that you made the choise to be here or not?
I think if i could be sure that i can't make even an iota of difference, i'd give much less thought to my choices and won't re-examine them so deeply..:)
Otherwise the present circumstances are what they are.....doesn't make a difference if i chose to be here or was here without a choice on my part.
Then imagine yourself at the same time tomorrow, what are you doing? Does imagining it makes it happen or you are gonna wait and see what really happens?
how true!..whatever i imagine with no matter how much detail, I'm pretty sure the reality tomorrow is going to be different. I might get 50% of the stuff right (or 40 or 60%) but it'd be uncanny if i knew exactly what i'd be doing the same time tomorrow.

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pranavsood
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Re: Please Guide Me

Postby pranavsood » Fri Dec 25, 2015 9:39 pm

Thanks a lot..:),
Pranav


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