Looking for a way out...

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AwarenessIsHere
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Re: Looking for a way out...

Postby AwarenessIsHere » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:31 pm

Hi Dre:

you said ,
<<but do I see it completely? Because this is the end game. No person, no problems. If problems seem to persist in my experince, it is because some belief is still going to this sense of person. My dilema is how to shake it off my back! So, if LU can help me on that, there is still work to do. Unless you're saying that LU only shows theoretically how things work. If that's the case (and I don't think it is), then I'm be done!<<
This is the cruz of the 'apparent" dilemma. Seeing the I as illusory/construct of thoughts, losing the belief it is real, does not stop all conditionings instantly for most folk. We kind of keep circling this over and over. I'm going as some peers to look in on our thread and see if they have suggestions. Stay tuned.

Lori Ann

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Re: Looking for a way out...

Postby AwarenessIsHere » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:00 pm

Hi again Dre:

Sorry for the delay. I want to quote the start of your thread, where you say
I was fortunate enough to have had 2 recognitions of my true nature, the natural state. One of them was particularly beautiful and powerful. Still the belief in the "me", although completely and blissfully seen through at those occasions, returned apparently untouched.
Here's the thing: "My" true nature. Who is the "my" that owns true nature. Or even who is the "I" that was fortunate enought to have had 2 recognitions?

In essesnce, these states that passed, as powerful as they were, are only passing states. But the thought that there is an I through whom they pass, or TO WHOM they happen, is what I want you to look at. Now. Just look. Don't think about it.

Right now, what is happening as you read this. Is there an annoyance or feeling state passing through? If so, is that feeling happening TO a self that you can find? Or is it just happening...feelings passing through. Thoughts arising.

Let me know what you find.

And then also, let me know what you don't find.

Lori Ann

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Re: Looking for a way out...

Postby Dre » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:35 pm

Here's the thing: "My" true nature. Who is the "my" that owns true nature. Or even who is the "I" that was fortunate enought to have had 2 recognitions?
There is no "I" owning anything, let alone the true nature of things. I would say it is just language. I'm usually careful with it, there is a tendency to use passive language in here, but I'm not an Advaita Police. Of course, the recognitions were themselves of the inexistence of any separate "I", so there is no one to claim the recognitions. The recognitions somehow just happened through this apparent body-mind.

In one of those clear seeings, the thought came "I think I got it". Laughter immediately followed, because the sentence made no sense what so ever. There was no "I" to "get" anything called "it". There was just "IT", the pure presence of awareness, clearly "seen" or apperceived, and appearences flowing.
In essesnce, these states that passed, as powerful as they were, are only passing states.
The seeing could have been a state (there was clarity, and then it was no more), but the "object seen" (this makes no sense at all...) was not a state. Meaning, what was "seen" was awareness itself, clearly recognized as being the only subject of all experience, the only reality in all appearence. That is not a state, that is the reality in which (and as which, ultimately) all states of waking and dreaming pass.

Now, the recognition of the natural Space came and went. That could be called a state. There was unclouded wakefulness for a brief moment, followed by the usual cloud of belief in individuality or separation.
But the thought that there is an I through whom they pass, or TO WHOM they happen, is what I want you to look at. Now. Just look. Don't think about it.
Now here things get slipery... I don't subscribe that there is an I to whom stuff happen. At least, not something that could be called an I - not an individual I, not a person with characteristics, limits, form, birth, death, etc. But there seems to be "something" that registers all happenings. In those recognitions, a space was sensed as being there, independent of all objects, constantly present allowing for everything to appear and disappear.

Somehow, it seemed independent of everything else. Just a void, aware, silent, unfathomable. Now this can't be called an I (but, if called anything, why not I? A "you" is definitely not the case!). It has no form, no shape, no limits. It's not a person, it's not individual, just the pure I-ness of raw existence!

Nevertheless, in non-duality it is said that even this ultimate subject is not present. I can't get my head around this. What is left, when all input, all perception or experiencing is gone - like in deep sleep? Nothing? That would mean that reality poped in and out of existence every day and that's hard to pin down. Maybe folks call it nothingness - a nothing that does exist. It is not something, but it is not non-existence either...

So, I would say that whatever experienced the "clarity" in the past is here now. That space, that presence, that beingness. Again, it is not an I, but there is something constant and somewhat tangible in all fleeting experiences. Experiences come and go, but experiencing itself is ever-present. The changing experiences cannot give the experiencing its continuity of presence. What is it then with this sense of ever-presence?
And then also, let me know what you don't find.
I do not find any separate self. I do not find anything individual. Everything is just an experience, made of experiencing. My own awareness is all that is ever experienced. If awareness is shut down, all is gone, so awareness is the only ground for reality. Inside the field of awareness, all is at the same level. It is thought that divides experiencing into separate objects, into diferent pieces and parts. It's like an ocean of experiencing, which thought divides into waves, currents, etc.

Still, one of the experiences is labeled as separation, as "I" being here inside apart from everything outside. That experience seems to linger, and it is still referenced to an I that seems to own that sense of "separation".

Love to you!
There is no enlightenment; just a belief in non-enlightenment! | http://www.wix.com/naodual/advaitaramblings

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Re: Looking for a way out...

Postby AwarenessIsHere » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:28 am

Andre....going to hone in on one response......
Nevertheless, in non-duality it is said that even this ultimate subject is not present. I can't get my head around this. What is left, when all input, all perception or experiencing is gone - like in deep sleep? Nothing? That would mean that reality poped in and out of existence every day and that's hard to pin down. Maybe folks call it nothingness - a nothing that does exist. It is not something, but it is not non-existence either...
For a number of your responses you state you have seen through the illusion of the I/ego/self. Reluctance to fully surrender to this seeing is also present. Using above quote as an example - there is comparison projected on to some 'ideal' or further down the rabbit hole awakening/awareness where everything has dropped away.

Who is the I that is doing the comparison? Who is the I that believes awakening is only awakening if the experience of a fully enlightened master is realized? Is this something you read or heard that you believe defines when awakening is real?

From my experience every person I have talked to who has had an abiding awakening experience has had a DIFFERENT experience than mine. Everyone is unique in this journey. As Adyashanti points out you can awaken to the mind (full freedom through non-attachment) to the heart (full freedom through intimate attachment to all) and to the gut. They can happen in any order and in any combination. If they happen in one the others may or may not happen. In the unfolding it is things falling away that open the possibilities of awakening fully to each of these aspects. Everything unfolds as it should in perfect timing.

I know you are looking to recapture the fullness of that 'awareness' glimpse. I can only say, yet again, that if it did not remain it by nature is a state. Yet is also is a true state, that eventually becomes an abiding truth...a living in that truth vs glimpsing it.

I think you are trying to go through a gate here, that you are already well through. The ego wants you to work on something bigger, and better, from the past. What was true, Andre, is the glimpse through the illusion of separate self that left you profoundly knowing that the self is illusory. That is a through-the-gate movement. What happens next is up to grace.

hugs

Lori Ann

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Re: Looking for a way out...

Postby Dre » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:01 pm

Who is the I that believes awakening is only awakening if the experience of a fully enlightened master is realized? Is this something you read or heard that you believe defines when awakening is real?
In fact, there is no seeking for a fully enlightened experience, with all the extras included. All that is sought here is the certainty (and the simple peace that follows it) of knowing what I am, what I is. There is no search here for the same experiences of the past. But Lori Ann is not seeking, neither is Adyashanti or anybody else who writes about this stuff from a true, honest place. Where does that certainty that puts an end to a sometimes many years old search come from? It is that certainty of simple self-knowledge that is sought. And that's not here because there are still some layers of belief in separation present.
Yet is also is a true state, that eventually becomes an abiding truth...a living in that truth vs glimpsing it.
That's what is sought here - the living truth.
What was true, Andre, is the glimpse through the illusion of separate self that left you profoundly knowing that the self is illusory. That is a through-the-gate movement. What happens next is up to grace.
What's grace exactly? If there is not-two (non-duality), then grace must be the Reality, the One Presence itself. Which is what I is, since I am present. So what does it mean that "is up to grace"? Should I wait for something to happen? Perhaps is grace that's propeling me to go on seeking the root of this matter.

Is this search entering a dead-end street?
There is no enlightenment; just a belief in non-enlightenment! | http://www.wix.com/naodual/advaitaramblings

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Re: Looking for a way out...

Postby AwarenessIsHere » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:16 pm

Just a tight bend in the road. Check this out, see what resonates...http://www.Blogtalkradio.com/wayofconsc ... sciousness

I realize we've kind of veered of course, keeping with the road analogy, from a strick Zen Stick?LU, look, just look. I'm not sure what to say, because you are right. You are wanting the seeking-stopping full on certainty that I call waking up. Grace is the perfect timing that unfolds from your sincere intention.

When I first woke up a fellow found me online and emailed for private off-forum help. I told him after a bit, just stop. GIve the seeking a rest for three days. In that time, he woke up.

How about stopping the looking and seeing what is here all along? Just, you know, STOPPING.

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Re: Looking for a way out...

Postby AwarenessIsHere » Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:23 am

how is stopping, going. :-)

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Re: Looking for a way out...

Postby Dre » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:50 pm

Stopping is really not going that much!=P Hasn't been able to really stop. Still reading and looking and whatever it is that seekers do...

I'm listening to your interview. You have a beautiful sweet voice that reminds me of someone I know who is connected to the recognitions that happened here back in california.=)

Anyway, Mooji is living in Portugal, which is where I live, and I'm trying to meet him and see if together we can disentangle this peculiar knot.

Dunno, Lori. Let's see where this road will lead. Perhaps is like Pain of Salvation say in one of their songs, "maybe I'm just a road, dreaming that I walk". There isn't really any going anywhere. THIS isn't going anywhere. The only place It could go would be not-THIS, and that is non-existent.

Love you and thank you.
André
There is no enlightenment; just a belief in non-enlightenment! | http://www.wix.com/naodual/advaitaramblings

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Re: Looking for a way out...

Postby AwarenessIsHere » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:06 am

Andre:

I can't use forcepts to pull you through the birth canal. :-) I love MOOJI, truthspeak with heart. A friend of mine is off to his retreat in Portugal (all way from Canada) sometime in next two months. Is that what you are considering...I woke up vis time with Ganga-gi...and the voice of adya...perhaps tha is your path, proximity to a very bright candle.

DO you want to keep on here, or for me to send you another guide? Or take a break? Or go offline to FB and just keep in touch?

hugs

LA

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Re: Looking for a way out...

Postby Dre » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:35 pm

Hi!

I'm not planning to go to that silent retreat. I'm looking for a more informal time together. My recognitions came after listening to some of his dvd's, so there seems to be some connection. Let's see.

About LU, I gess this is it for now. Thank you for your time, and for Eloratea's! We'll keep in touch somehow, and we'll see how it will unfold. I'm not the kind of waiting around for blessings to fall from the sky, so I'll keeping looking.=)

Love to you! Lots of IT!=)
There is no enlightenment; just a belief in non-enlightenment! | http://www.wix.com/naodual/advaitaramblings

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Re: Looking for a way out...

Postby AwarenessIsHere » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:40 pm

Keep in touch for sure. Got you facebook so will check in now and then and say hi. There is everything right with this as it unfolds for you, just remember that. :-)

Lori ANn

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Re: Looking for a way out...

Postby AwarenessIsHere » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:41 pm

and by the way, you were on my mind this morning, wondering how you were doing.


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