i could be full of crap, but what if im not?

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i could be full of crap, but what if im not?

Postby josh » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:19 am

I'm copying this from my concluding post in my one on one thread. i mean no disrespect, i'm just suggesting some things, take it or leave it. what harm could it do to just sincerely investigate this? i can think of a lot of suffering that could come if you don't. so, with this i end my posting with this community, i'll only stick around to check p.m. in case anyone has questions for me.

alright, i think i've already "crossed the gate" prior to this interaction. what separates me from other gate-crossers is that, although i see that suffering is not self (just sensations occuring of their own accord) i differ in my approach to that suffering. i think you guys have taken the feel it, see that it is not self, not be swayed by it, make it not a problem, and tolerate it approach. this approach is fine, it is much better than being unaware of the fact that there is no self, being swayed by the sensations, adding extra emphasis to sensations, in this sense yes you have been liberated. you have taken a huge amount of suffering away from your experience, nice. but what tells you for sure that what is left can not be removed. if something must be tolerated, must be coped with, must be sublimated to higher goals... wouldn't it be better if that something weren't there?

other people have realized the truth of there not being a self, they have seen the sensations of being for what they are, but they have also decided that they would prefer the experience free of these compelling, unpleasant sensations. when you have strong attention, when you look right at these sensations, they hold no sway, but what about when you aren't paying attention? couldn't it be possible that you could not pay attention and the feeling of "I" would come back, and you could perhaps harm someone? is it also possible that although you see these sensations, they have some slightly subliminal effect on your behavior?

you can see these feelings of 'i' feelings of depression, anger, fear, desire whatever for what they are, and you can tolerate them, minimize their impact, not believe you exist, and your life will be better than if you didn't do this stuff. but the fact is, people have gone beyond the point of seeing things for what they are and then going forward and changing what those things are.

out of respect for the emphasis on this forum that direct pointing alone should be discussed, i won't go into discussing other practices, or any of that, but if you'd like to private message me i could talk a bit with you. i'm sure plenty of people will tell me that i haven't actually "crossed the gate" if i feel that suffering is a problem. i can't prove what i experience though, no other mind can see into mine, so that argument is an immediate dead end. but i know exactly your perspective, i've been quite able to look at my experience and see that it is not self, that all this stuff is just arising and passing away, that it has no significance, but i realized it is still unpleasant, and still it (subliminally) makes my actions harmful to others, and there is something further to attain.

to sum up, i've crossed the gate, there are other changes that can be made to consciousness that are positive even after there is no more belief in self, if you are interested message me, if not, that's fine go about your life

I'll leave you guys one little link, two people discussing what i'm talking about. one of them has been seeing everything as not-self and leaving it as it is, the other has gone from that point to the ending of that crap that you seem to just have to tolerate and see it for what it is. plenty of people have done it, i've already been at the seeing the crap and leaving it perspective, and now i've gone on and rid this body of lots of that crap, and it's made me enjoy life so much more, and be so much better to those around me. maybe i'm full of crap (to use crap in a different sense :)) or maybe, just maybe, just maybe! there is something that you guys aren't aware of yet. only you can prove to yourself whether this is legitimate or not.

here are the links, what harm could it do to listen?
part 1
http://www.interactivebuddha.com/files/ ... DonAF1.mp3
part 2
http://www.interactivebuddha.com/files/ ... DonAF2.mp3

now i'll leave ya be, try to be open minded, but if your not, i don't mind, enjoy your life to the extent that you can in your current state seeya!

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Re: i could be full of crap, but what if im not?

Postby LEL » Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:55 am

Hi Josh!

just wondering, did anyone answered your invitation and is currently pm'ing with you?
did you get an answer to your question?

as i read you, I agree that if you 're moved toward cleaning the basement, it's your call.

seeing no-self is the ultimate tool, imo, to not take too seriously what's popping.

it gives you a great sense of space and impersonality vis-a-vis all the events (thoughts, emotions, perceptions)
and from then on, it's so much easier to deal with everything if you feel like it. (although you noticed i'm sure that choice is an illusion)

for some, seeing no-self can be followed by a great release of the hold on the beliefs and emotions that come with them. It can be a shaky period. For others, it can just be extremely relaxing and the end of being bothered by anything.

no rules, as i see it.

hope you're doing well.


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