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square
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Re: processing

Postby square » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:45 am

Cam,

the thoughts go around in circles and more often than not I loose track of them. Some of them are commentary to something I'm doing, some of them come before an action. Most of them are, well entertaining, and I often find myself smiling and don't know what I was thinking about. Maybe this is a hanging point for me, I can't take things very seriously. But my body is not relaxed, I find drawn up shoulders when I think to notice, and I'm often slightly leaning forward, that made me laugh, it seems like the physical representation of anticipation.

When I ask who is in control of my live? who owns my body? Well, Cam, I don't know. After that bit of blank, the I am comes, but that's silly. I don't present the circumstances in my life, I can only take or leave what comes. I don't know how to explain that.

So I read the posts again from the beginning, should do that more often, seem like I missed a lot. You write: "What we are doing her is challenging the illusion of self" and "We're just looking at thoughts and what is within them creates the "illusive" connection to each thought." I'm going too fast, or at least they are, the thoughts. I was thinking about people with a lot of drama in their lives and how I would not want to be in their heads, and that led to control of thought, well you can't, and choice. Wouldn't they want to stop all that exaggerating? Do they have a choice? And I suspect their minds go even faster and they believe what they are thinking, maybe thinking about what would happen if. I don't have those thoughts, I'm glad, since there's no controls on them. Anyway, I'm rambling.

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Re: processing

Postby Cam-RT » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:29 am

Okay Peggy,

Let's start with a different approach, this time we're gonna dig deep, "really deep"....

Pardon the metaphor---"This time we're gonna follow 'Alice' down the Rabbit Hole"....;^)

Alright, When we get down to the simple basic's, and start stripping away each layer one by one; Your body houses your mind, your mind houses your 'awareness or essence'... what's left?....what controls it?....what drives it?

Can you claim ownership of it?

Be completely honest I want to hear the truth... No fluff.
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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square
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Re: processing

Postby square » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:32 am

Cam, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be fluffy, fluffy is like drama, it's not needed. The last thing I want to do is waste your time. I'll dig deeper.
Thank you

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Re: processing

Postby square » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:25 pm

Well, Cam, I'm not sure how to say this, might sound a bit crazy, but it seems there are several of me, at least three. Body, Mind and I
The Body, it does at it does, more often than not anyway, and it does what Mind says. I notice the both, thoughts come to Mind and the body still does it's automatic thing, being alive. That is to say, I watch them both when I concentrate on what's going on and not being run off with by the thoughts. It feels like 98% of the time the mind is occupying everything and only when I pay attention, remember to pay attention to what's actually happening, that there are three of us? oh dear. this is confusing.

The vibrating sensation in the body is what I'm trying to focus on and noticed how it's just the outer layers that have this constant feel, all the inners is mainly feelings or bodily needs like hunger, a gut ache feels different.
And these feelings are very fleeting, a look from a person or a memory will trigger them, or will trigger an interpretation rather. So the feeling comes first, than the interpretation of what this feeling means, if there is an interpretation.

Cam, it feels like it's slowed down and I get a chance to actually observe what's going in in the body, or body and mind relation.

My essence is just that, my core, the combination of all of the things that have made the reaction to a circumstance that happens today. Tomorrow might be a different reaction to a the same thing, and that is simply so, because a different possibility enters the stream of thought. Behind that is life.

wrote above earlier today____

and tonight, in retrospect, I can see the very automatic vestment into an opinion/believe you are trying to express for example, the leaning forward of the body, the tone of voice, or the sitting back, drawing the other person in. It seems like a choice to emphasize certain points in a conversation but it really isn't, it just comes out of the mouth, words are not carefully planned (most of the time ) in advance. Trying to catch thoughts is like, well I don't know, might as well piss and/or vomit into the wind. It all happens at the same time, the mouth going, the thoughts going, Aaahhhh I didn't notice the body, damn, all evening. and here it is, just vibrating away, funny that, the sensation is less now than when I first noticed that I had forgotten about it.

ok, select all, copy.

submit :-)

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Re: processing

Postby Cam-RT » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:10 am

Hey Peggy:

I'm doing a bit better (At least I don't feel like falling over ;^)

Anyway, I'm glad your reaching out more (mindfully), Yet let's not discouraged when I say, that we don't want to over think this process and add any unnecessary confusion.
but it seems there are several of me, at least three. Body, Mind and I
The Body, it does at it does, more often than not anyway, and it does what Mind says. I notice the both, thoughts come to Mind and the body still does it's automatic thing, being alive.
Think of it more simply as this...

The body is the 'transportation' and the nourishment "For" the mind...(As in the body and the brain.) That's it.

What's left (that resides in the brain) is...(people call it by many names)...The: Essence, Life force, The Soul, Spirit etc.

So Peggy, let's look at the truth... strip away the body and the brain, what's left?

Do you exist?

What we're striving for here, is the Awakening of the spirit, to the world around us. Not limiting ourselves to the thoughts 'within' us...The self is buried within these thoughts.
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Re: processing

Postby square » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:08 pm

Cam, I do hope you still don't feel like falling over :-)

After a few days of solitude.
The whole time I remembered the question and nothing else of your last post. Do you exist? It made me laugh at first and after a while the fear came. There was so much to do all day, the fear came on the third day with the doubts that I wouldn't be able to handle it all. By midday I realized that the fears were just believed thoughts, everything was going just as fine as the first two days, only thoughts otherwise were making it different. Thoughts make fear, or rather the commentary that comes with a feeling of fear makes more fear. Negative, cold feelings live in the gut , positive, warm feelings live in the chest and only the mind, the thoughts build a story on it via the constant commentary.
Fear is just a name for a sequence of thoughts that comments on a feeling, behind the name fear is only the feeling, and without the thoughts feeding it it goes away.

The stuff with names on them, tree, fence, door, kitchen sink, they're all real. Other stuff with names on them, fear, Peggy, core, self are ideas, Peggy is the name for a conglomeration of other people's ideas and memories; and calling it my core, myself is my construct from believes and memories, taken from other people and life experiences. A story, but you gotta talk about something.

I, do I exist? Ah, it's a language thing. Does I exist? That's much easier, yes it does exist, in language, it's needed to, well speak about most things, and as a reference point to.. what? a conglomeration of ideas and believes and memories?
So I walked around with that for a day, two days, got headaches. Thoughts don't give answers, how can they? But how can I be just a thought, yes, there's only doing, everything got done, the story of achievement only came with the thoughts about the accomplished. The swelling chest is accompanied by an I did it thought. Things like that make the self, it's a habit of thinking to attach an I or me. My and mine is different, it often refers to defendable possessions or positions. I paid my money for that so it is mine.

So, do I exist? Don't know, what is looking at the thoughts? at the I thought? what sees and hears and tastes and touches? I can't do anything with the terms awareness or consciousness. and just noticed that I left out the question what smells, funny that, don't have a very good sense of smell.

There's an expectation now. For the humming, the buzzing, the constant of thought to quiet down and for more of the silence to stay. There were evenings these last few days were the body was so tired that the mind took a break before going to bed, that was nice, and even nicer that there was no one to talk to.

With much gratitude thanking you again for your patience.

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Re: processing

Postby Cam-RT » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:44 pm

Wow, Peggy you have made such progress! I have to say this now, your very close, and reading thru your response made me fill up with such pride it put a tear to my eyes!!

Yup, the body Doesn't lie..It's main purpose it to protect and nurish the brain to keep us alive and well...The rest is just thought.
By midday I realized that the fears were just believed thoughts, everything was going just as fine as the first two days, only thoughts otherwise were making it different. Thoughts make fear, or rather the commentary that comes with a feeling of fear makes more fear. Negative, cold feelings live in the gut , positive, warm feelings live in the chest and only the mind, the thoughts build a story on it via the constant commentary.
Fear is just a name for a sequence of thoughts that comments on a feeling, behind the name fear is only the feeling, and without the thoughts feeding it it goes away.
Your absolutely right, negative thoughts/feelings tend to have an almost 'magnetic' property about them, when they are accompanied and fueled by "The Self". Thoughts easily build on negative thoughts.

People often talk about "Duality",(good, bad ,hot ,cold,<--you know.) but the thing is....It just is. Meaning that, as humans it's our nature to judge and label everything...Sorta like, how do you like to eat your Eggs? or Do you you even eat eggs??
So, do I exist? Don't know, what is looking at the thoughts? at the I thought? what sees and hears and tastes and touches? I can't do anything with the terms awareness or consciousness. and just noticed that I left out the question what smells, funny that, don't have a very good sense of smell.
This is your ride...You get this one shot and your done. Don't be a prisoner of your thoughts. Experience all of what your body has to offer and cherish it.

Your mind is such a beautiful and endless realm that which you (until now) haven't questioned, it's full capability. Eliminating 'the self' frees your mind to enjoy more fully what the 'present' has to give...

Okay, now give this some thought, and take your time before you answer...

Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Re: processing

Postby square » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:39 pm

Thank you Cam,

Nothing is personal, only thoughts, nothing but thoughts about make a me.
Most of the time it's the story about what just happened and realizing that the last time I asked Is there a me was three hours ago, the phone rang and off it went. It is like being taken over, or a prisoner like you say.
I wish I could report progress, but it is stuck, the short breaks, when I realize the thoughts are ruling again are passing very quickly and the rumbling is back seemingly full time. The body is a little different, a vibrating is felt most of the time, it's quiet strong when I realize thoughts have taken over.
And nothing has anything to do with me, this was theory before, how I lived, detached from happenings. Now, I get annoyed with the thoughts, I think I am so used to negating and circumventing that it has become a habit. But even explaining them away are just more thoughts. There was more peace last week when the body was worn out and tired every day. Here in the normal surroundings again it is even hard to remember.
The question is there a me anywhere I can't answer truthfully, no to that feels a lie but yes is just as false. Since I is a thought, me is a thought only also, but it feels like I'm trying to convince. There's no fear walking around with the question. There's a sense of self, this vibrating in the hole body, only personal pronouns make it this sensation in my body, and simply the thought names this sensation for naming's sake. Altogether thoughts and feelings are so very fleeting, they appear and disappear.
Stuck Cam, what to do. I'll work with the question what sees.
with much appreciation as always

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Re: processing

Postby Cam-RT » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:08 pm

Hey Peggy:

First off, I love that Message you left me ( The SHUT UP part.) yes, even after we confirm you have crossed "the Gate"
some conditioning maybe needed to help you deal with some of the 'aftercare' of this process, but in essence your doing fine... What I do want to address is when these thoughts come, See it kind of like when you go outside and you look up at the sky,( I do this alot.) looking up and you see those clouds or thoughts, they come and they go, but you of course can't "whisk" them away so just let them be.Just like the old Beetles song "Let it be".<----when thoughts distract me and try and pull me in, I'll do the same thing and start humming the song or just thinking it. It's the same as getting a song stuck in your head ;^)

So anyway, your response to my first "confirmation" Question, put you right at the gate.
The question is there a me anywhere I can't answer truthfully, no to that feels a lie but yes is just as false. Since I is a thought, me is a thought only also, but it feels like I'm trying to convince.
The "self" is trying to use confuse and lead you away from seeing the truth...

Maybe it might be better to work in a more "nature" like environment. Like myself, I too ( when I first "popped")
was outside, and the self finally gave in after a harrowing night before and then everything just fell away..

Try reading my blog titled... The" I " must Die. http://cam-rt.blogspot.com/

I want to reassure you that everything your doing is just fine, and don't let fear or confusion get in the way of seeing the truth...

This is where i need you to keep in touch, on any progress made, I'm here for you...Take Care Cam-RT.
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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square
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Re: processing

Postby square » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:17 pm

hello Cam,

I don't know if it counts as progress, but yesterday all the people were smiling at me, and one guy even said thank you when I smiled at him, made me feel all warm.
Anyway.
To call myself out on some shit, as you say in that link, means to address believes that one is conditioned to? When I asked the question what sees, then that is avoiding / interrupting a train of thought, and I should be dealing with the thought? The thoughts I noticed most all day yesterday were formulating a response to you, telling you about all this trivial stuff, very outward oriented, and just rumbling. There was no more yelling.
Time for a walk, it's windy and a bit chilly, nice.

with much love and gratitude

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Re: processing

Postby Cam-RT » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:23 pm

Good morning Peggy:
To call myself out on some shit, as you say in that link, means to address believes that one is conditioned to?
In a round about way, Yes. this was where (In midstream) I was dealing with not only trying to see through all the negative thoughts but also attempted suicide.<---That was dumb, why kill yourself, when your gonna die anyway? (that was in the previous blog....)
When I asked the question what sees, then that is avoiding / interrupting a train of thought, and I should be dealing with the thought?
The "Self" is cunning, and will distract you from connecting and seeing when it can, you may even see it and not notice at first but, if the thought arises repeatedly it probably is The self behind it. Don't force it.....Just go with the flow...

Keep looking, don't give up... You WILL see... Take Care ...Cam-RT.
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com


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