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square
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processing

Postby square » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:05 pm

Hello, I would like help with this process,
I noticed you start with a few questions. I don't know where I am with this, I am not religious, read a couple of 'spiritual' books. I don't even know what to expect, a little bit of peace would be nice.

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Cam-RT
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Re: processing

Postby Cam-RT » Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:21 am

Welcome...

I'd like to start out by asking what name that you're comfortable using to give this conversation a bit more of a "human" aspect if it's Okay...

I'm glad you haven't delved (to deeply) into spirituality and ask that what ever you've learned put on the "back burner" until we've completed this process. (It tends to prove to be a distraction and keeps us from moving forward.)

I also need to make one little rule...That you answer my questions with "complete" honesty... Along with your full commitment, progress is guaranteed.

So what come up when I say,... There is no separate entity as a " I or Self" in real life at all ?....
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Re: processing

Postby square » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:56 am

Hello Cam RT, is that your real name?
thank you very much for working with me, my name is Peggy, yes I will be as honest as I know how to be, and I am looking forward to this conversation.
So what come up when I say,... There is no separate entity as a " I or Self" in real life at all ?....
You mean me not being a separate entity in real life. That's hard already, I read some of the conversations and have a hard time grasping this. I sit here at the desk, typing away, I can see my hands on the keyboard. I type the words, who else would be doing this?
From the conversations it looks like I am not my body, or my name, and in a way I can see that. The name was given to me by my parents, and to be honest, I never felt like a Peggy, and when I got married my last name changed anyway, and you get nicknames that might point to character or physical traits or other things. But how can this not be my body? I seem to be stuck with this one, no chance of getting another one. And my body is separate from the chair or the desk.

thanks again Cam RT, looking forward to your reply.

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Re: processing

Postby Cam-RT » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:55 am

Yes Peggy, Cam is my given name.
I read some of the conversations and have a hard time grasping this. I sit here at the desk, typing away, I can see my hands on the keyboard. I type the words, who else would be doing this?
You in fact put simply, are mind/awareness and body.(Animals are the perfect example of this.) Your thoughts (that you associate with) in fact have no mass, and don't exist in the real world, unless you act upon them and bring them to fruition.

Seeing that you don't have any apprehensions about delving into these thoughts is good because I'll need you to challenge these thoughts (some in real time) and others when you get the time to single some out, and excuse the metaphor... start "cleaning house".

Okay, as you start to "look"; Notice how thought patterns play out...

Thought triggers feeling, feeling gets labeled,---->"new trigger", feeling gets more intense---> more labels, and so on....creating a Vicious feed back loop...This gos on endlessly when the " I or Self " is at the center.

So here we go...I need you to pick some "negative or uncomfortable" thoughts. (the darker the better.) Use your body to sense the "feelings" associated with those thoughts, when these feelings hit, bring it close, focus and look straight into it, through it, what do you see?

Try practicing this, and tell me what "it is" you find...
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Re: processing

Postby square » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:57 pm

Hello Cam,
I've been trying to bring up bad feelings all morning, tried my favorite bad person and can't seem to be upset about things, I'll keep going, maybe something will come along that'd upset me. It kind of doesn't feel serious when I just think of a bad situation or similar, it just goes away. no thoughts feeding it ?, does that make sense? It doesn't even feel uncomfortable thinking about death.

I'll keep going Cam,

thank you

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Re: processing

Postby Cam-RT » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:05 pm

Hello Cam,
I'll I've been trying to bring up bad feelings all morning, tried my favorite bad person and can't seem to be upset about things, It doesn't even feel uncomfortable thinking about death.
Generally, people have memories (even from childhood) that have burned a lasting negative impressions; that in some cases revisit them from time to time that tend to spur feelings that are unpleasant to them, when gone unresolved. These too, serve as an important part of this process.

Okay, so your feelings are more subtle, which might make it a bit tougher to nail the "self" down if your not present in thought. So were gonna take this search into "Real Time" and keep in touch with your body when any "negative" feelings pop up through out your day.---->Anger, frustration, impatients ,sadness, depression, (You name it.) these are feelings that reoccur on a daily basis.

When these feelings arise, take a quick step back (take a second look) ask your self..."who is feeling this? "This is where the self resides. (Within these type of thoughts.) Whatever you "personally identify" with, "is" this thought construct, and inevitably will spur the body to respond, just like the reflex to raise your hand if someone was to slap you... Look at Everything. Don't let any "thing" go by without challenging it...Be thorough...

What we're doing here is challenging the "illusion of self" and how these thought patterns are so strongly connected to the body itself. -----> The mind and the body are "ONE" thoughts illusions and shouldn't affect the body just like when you look at the sky and watch the clouds, they're a part of the sky but don't physically attach themselves to it.

keep looking and check back with me on what you've "seen".... ;^)
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Re: processing

Postby square » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:12 am

Generally, people have memories (even from childhood) that have burned a lasting negative impressions; that in some cases revisit them from time to time that tend to spur feelings that are unpleasant to them, when gone unresolved. These too, serve as an important part of this process.
This is the stuff that makes the character, the conditioned reactions, some one's born with, some is learned, the cause and effect of living, you break the glass, you'll be punished.
Okay, so your feelings are more subtle, which might make it a bit tougher to nail the "self" down if your not present in thought. So were gonna take this search into "Real Time" and keep in touch with your body when any "negative" feelings pop up through out your day.---->Anger, frustration, impatients ,sadness, depression, (You name it.) these are feelings that reoccur on a daily basis.
The being present in thought is a hard one, they go like high speedsters.
There's a 1-2-3 'beat' to breathing when walking, like, three counts breath in, three counts exhale, thoughts say 'oh, listen to that lovely bird' or 'that's a really noisy machine', or commenting on the color of something, then it's swallowed up by a, I don't know, it's a humming or buzzing and you end up on another subject, that hum is always there.
As far as negative feelings, I don't know Cam, it's like everything else, they go away, mostly very quickly, the physical sensation of 'Oh crap, I forgot to do that', you know, the intake of air with that thought, well that feeling disappears just as quickly as the thought. I tried to 'slow down' to see what comes first, feeling or thought, and I get lost in the humming, a bit like static white noise, but not as unpleasant.
Who is feeling this? This is where the self resides. (Within these type of thoughts.)
During the day I caught thoughts of formulating this answer to you, phrasing how to explain. I don't think it's anywhere as thoroughly written as it was thought at the time, but that's what I remember most about the thoughts of the day.
What we're doing here is challenging the "illusion of self" and how these thought patterns are so strongly connected to the body itself. -----> The mind and the body are "ONE" thoughts illusions and shouldn't affect the body just like when you look at the sky and watch the clouds, they're a part of the sky but don't physically attach themselves to it.
But thoughts affect feelings, there's a physical sensation with the thought 'oh no, I forgot to do that',
maybe I didn't understand this very well. It feels like the sky is the humming and the clouds / thoughts come out of that. I don't know.

I hope this helps, thanks you.

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Re: processing

Postby square » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:20 am

I'm sorry Cam, I missed that entire "Be thorough" bit, but I'm not sure what you mean by challenging everything.

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Re: processing

Postby Cam-RT » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:20 am

Good evening peggy :^)
the conditioned reactions, some one's born with, some is learned, the cause and effect of living, you break the glass, you'll be punished.
So what lie's "behind" the fear of potentially breaking that glass?
I get lost in the humming, a bit like static white noise, but not as unpleasant.
So it appears you have gotten in touch with the "life force" within you. We're just looking at thoughts and what is within them creates the "illusive" connection to each thought.
there's a physical sensation with the thought 'oh no, I forgot to do that',
Yes, that's it! the physical "connection" to the thought. The body will point to the connection of the 'self'.
The body doesn't lie, when the 'self' is present you will 'feel' that connection.

What was meant by challenge everything, was every "thought" that spurs this "connection".

As if your mind was like an attic (full of boxes) and open each thought or memory look closely and see what 'it is' inside that you connect with... Seeing the "truth" is the key to this process.....Keep looking and let me know what you find.
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Re: processing

Postby square » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:10 am

Hello Cam,

I have been busy, but tried to locate the physical connection to thoughts during the days work and am a bit lost. It happens very fast and I can't tell if the thought is before the feeling or not, it seems to depend. I don't occupy myself with worrying very much and find it hard to 'spin' thoughts about why what happened and what made me react. But maybe I'm on the wrong track?
What is behind the fear of potentially breaking that glass? Anticipation of consequences I would say, thoughts about what happened when the first glass was broke and anticipating what will happen.

How can I slow down more, the thoughts? It's like a constant, the humming is the thoughts, and most of the time I get lost in them, carried away. When driving for example, I look up and it takes a second to realize where I am and I can't even remember what I was thinking about to not have noticed the road.

I did notice how I judge situations in the last couple of days, or better, how quickly the result is formed or the solution found. As far as those boxes in the attic are concerned, do you mean like the 'backpack' everybody carries around, the life story? There's not much in mine, memories yes, but the story that I am like this because they did that to me is long unpacked. I don't know how to explain that, no good crying over spilled milk? Is that just a judgement?

Catching thoughts is hard.

Thank you Cam.

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Re: processing

Postby Cam-RT » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:14 pm

Hey Peggy:

It's Okay, we'll keep trying...
tried to locate the physical connection to thoughts during the days work and am a bit lost.
Like I said before, It's that subtle "feeling/reflex" the body gives off when it is imminently threatened... ( say if while your driving and somebody 'cuts' you off and you get that (pardon my french) Oh shit!! feeling associated with that, maybe not that much...But still it's a reaction just the same....AND,' maybe' that feeling that comes afterwards, like "That jerk damn near caused a CRASH!!"....That tense feeling, and even increases you heart rate momentarily.
What is behind the fear of potentially breaking that glass? Anticipation of consequences
Okay, "Anticipation" lets start with that...So what controls (or) drives it??
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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Cam-RT
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Re: processing

Postby Cam-RT » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:54 am

Hello again Peggy:

I was reading one of your posts prior and found something interesting...
But how can this not be my body? I seem to be stuck with this one, no chance of getting another one. And my body is separate from the chair or the desk.
Are you in fact the owner of your body?....Who is?

Is Peggy in control of this life she's living?....Who is?
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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square
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:06 am

Re: processing

Postby square » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:16 pm

Oh, it didn't post my quick reply from last night.
I was looking at anticipation, I work with animals and to anticipate means to miss an opening, an opportunity. It's subtle and hard to explain, having goals won't work, it makes you rigid.

And I came to the conclusion that I needed to find a fear to work with.

Then I read your last post and questions and mmmhhh, am I the owner of my body? That threw me for a loop and asking myself that question kind of draws a blank, I will look into that.
Your second question, am I in control of my life? That's a 'hell no', I'd own an island an have my feet in the water if I had a say in it.

thank you Cam, I very much appreciate your help.

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Re: processing

Postby Cam-RT » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:42 am

Peggy:

Keep checking on those fears, that tightness or anxiousness associated with them or whatever 'negative' feeling pops up.

Keep checking on.... Who it is that owns your body?...

The second question was... Who is in control of your life?


Ask your self these questions, look within, and tell me what the "truth" really is.
The illusion isn't destroyed...Just seen for what it 'Is'
Thoughts vs. Reality----->Reality always wins.
"Have courage...Don't give up!!"

http://cam-rt.blogspot.com

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square
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:06 am

Re: processing

Postby square » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:40 pm

Am I the owner of my body?
I didn't tell the muscles to do these certain movements in order to learn how to type, for example, or how to balance when I learned to ride the bike, so it seems that muscle memory is muscle's life story. And my memory is my life story. But it sounds like two things, my body and my life. So, what constitutes an owner? The car that I bought became my car by adding that my, the body becomes my body by adding that my? And life becomes my life the same way? uufff. My family, the my makes them belong to me? I don't own them. That is how the story is put together, with my and mine and me and I? That's actually funny. But how else would one express that belonging, my car, the car I bought. Anyway, back to the question. Am I the owner of my body?
Yes, because I can make it do things, like drive me around in my car (that's a bit remote, how can my body drive me around? I'll think of another one.). And no, because soon here I might not be able to control my bowls, ha, and I already end up in a room and forgot what I wanted there. But that has to do with control and not ownership?
And who is in control of my live? I never felt in control, or out of control for that matter, maybe that's to general, but whatever comes goes. Both, as in passing and in having to deal with.
I seem to have a hard time with physically feeling things, emotions, it's very swift and I thought I might not be honest enough to find what scares me? How can that be?
I'll keep looking at the owner thing, is it just the my that makes them my hands? I don't feel particularly attached to them, they are attached to my body, the body? If I lost one that would be a shame, probably hurt a bit, but I would still be me. And when I asked the questions, it's a bit blank, then explaining feels like not finding the right words. And I feel like I'm making a mess of this. I'll keep looking for that frightful stuff.
Thank You Cam.
Peggy


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