Thread for Ged

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Xain
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Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:31 pm
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Thread for Ged

Postby Xain » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:04 pm

Hi Ged

Thank you for coming on to the Forum. Hopefully, you will see how easier it is to quote and reply to the points you made.
We will continue on here.

I will now repost your last reply here, and then break it down.
I am using the 'quote' function (button) to do this. An explanation of how to do this is here:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660
Where did that thought appear?
Seems to appear in that 'magic' phenomena that I call my 'mind'
Yes, but let's be specific here. Where and what exactly is 'mind'?
Is 'mind' anything more than a label given to a string of thoughts?
Is it an actual 'real' place that can be found, or is it a concept?
Does it have an owner?
Well, it seems to be only accessible to me. I guess I dont know that for sure but so far in my experience no-one else has ever had access to the thoughts I consider to be 'mine'
Well, let us put aside 'others' for the time being, as I hope you will agree that is speculation and really all we can be sure of if our own experience.
You say 'Accessible to me' - What is 'me'?
Is there a 'me'? Or is there just 'a thought being experienced'?
what exactly is the 'I' in ' I think'?
Erm.....
well, it seems to be me
Ok, what is 'me'? A thought or a real 'thing'?
'I' and 'me' are interchangeable and I assume you are meaning the same thing when you use either word. The thing is . . . WHAT? What EXACTLY are you referring to when you use these words.
Does it actually point to anything at all?
what created it?
That is trickier. I can only refer to beliefs about mind.
It seems to just appear when in response to reading the question you posed
Good. Ok, it 'just appears' is perfectly fair if an actual causing agent cannot be found (other than a thought about it's cause).
This is important for your journey, Ged, if you don't mind me saying.
Thoughts are experienced. To say 'I think' is a thought about the experience. An actual 'I' cannot be found, only the experience of 'thought'.
Do you see this?
I cannot 'find the doer' because I am the doer.
This is a circular argument (and therefore, self-defeating).
There is a belief 'I am the doer that is looking for the doer' and you justify it by the belief that 'I am the doer'.
How to break out of this circle? Find EXACTLY what is meant by 'I'.
Describe exactly what this 'I' is that is the doer.

For example, 'I am currently reading text on a screen'.
Whilst doing this activity, describe the 'I' to me, that is doing it. What can be found?
I cant find myself with my own senses because I am the subject.
I suggest to you that this is an assumption - Just a belief/thought.
'My senses' - There is a belief here that there is an 'I' that 'owns' senses.
What is this 'I' that owns the senses?
The senses report back to 'I'
What is 'I'?
it would be like asking a light to shine on itself. Or a loudspeaker to hear itself.
You are justifying thoughts by using more thoughts.
Just concentrate on 'I'.
It occurs to me that I may be very stuck or closed on these questions you are posing.
In order to look through this, you need to take a very strong stance and examine exactly what is 'real' and what is 'a thought/belief' about what is real. Examine the beliefs . . . the beliefs that are just 'taken for granted'.
'I am a separate person' is such a belief. You can justify this belief with more thoughts and beliefs, or tackle it head-on.
I am up for continuing with this line of questioning if that is the way it works.
As am I, but any stage you feel it is too much, or taking you in to territory you don't feel comfortable in going in to, we can stop - No pressure either way. All I ask is that if you feel this way, please let me know rather than just 'disappearing' :-)
I also want to say I'm aware of a different track that seems more 'open' for me.....
I seem to be aware, as I have said, of holding some kind of barrier around what I consider to be 'myself''.
A kind of attempt to control and protect. I am very fearful around the possibility of letting that go.
But also aware that doing so could result in a deep relaxation, an 'allowing to flow with life'.
A very honest reply. If you have a genuine desire for this, then examine deeply this belief that 'you' are a separate person.
I have an image of letting go into the river of life and allowing it to carry me, rather than carefully and effortfully trying to navigate the rocks and propel myself with oars.
I guess the fear is that the river would smash me up against the rocks if I were to stop holding on and controlling my own speed and direction.
It is said that life is actually effortless. Constantly maintaining the illusion of the separate self is a constant effort.
If 'I' being a separate individual is just a belief, then life has been effortless all along but it has been ignored in favour of an illusion.
Is this of any use?
Yes, of course. Just be totally honest.
Any honesty with where 'you' are if of great use.

Xain ♥

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