New to This -help needed

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:20 pm

that a thought or a sense of self can decide something. Is that true?
- that someone is making a conscious choice to create a self. Is that true?
Difficult question in a way. A sense of self cant decide anything.Its a sense thats all.Its not a physical reality The body can act on a any thought that comes into its head. But a sense of self is fictional. Just like an actor plays a part -a sense of self is not true.


Is somebody making a conscious choice to create a self?
I would say yes-its a conscious choice.

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:25 pm

The Cough:
When corrected over it- I thought this reflects badly on me-the self. It was a case of should be offended. This goes against my sense of "self." The truth wanted to resist this urge but old habits die hard. It came in directly when i felt shame from correction.But as there are no self-it should have been a matter of a simply apology as he was acting from a false set of self or at the very least hygiene!

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Damon Kamda
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby Damon Kamda » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:28 pm

Is somebody making a conscious choice to create a self?
I would say yes-its a conscious choice.
Who or what chooses to create a self then? Break it down, dissect this by directly observing it happening as it is happening. No speculation, just the raw reality of it.

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Damon Kamda
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby Damon Kamda » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:34 pm

The Cough:
When corrected over it- I thought this reflects badly on me-the self. It was a case of should be offended. This goes against my sense of "self." The truth wanted to resist this urge but old habits die hard. It came in directly when i felt shame from correction.But as there are no self-it should have been a matter of a simply apology as he was acting from a false set of self or at the very least hygiene!
I'm politely ignoring this, ok...?

You know what, let's set a "new" rule here. It was assumed that this was clear from the beginning, but let's make it more explicit.

From now on, reply only with 100 % honesty in terms of what is known, seen, understood, observed. Ok?

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:59 pm

From now on, reply only with 100 % honesty in terms of what is known, seen, understood, observed. Ok?
You lost me here. Could you explain ? You mean making assumptions? not sure what you mean?

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Damon Kamda
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby Damon Kamda » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:06 pm

You lost me here. Could you explain ? You mean making assumptions? not sure what you mean?
Well, you've been in this thread since December 21st, 2011 and you still haven't moved from speculation to seeing reality as it is, which is perfectly fine, most people never get there. I just thought I'd invite you (once again) to start LOOKING AT REALITY.

So, where are we at now?

Do you exist?

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:11 pm

I dont fully agree with your analysis of moi 's texts here. Will get back to you soon.

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Damon Kamda
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby Damon Kamda » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:07 am

I dont fully agree with your analysis of moi 's texts here. Will get back to you soon.
Sure! Perhaps it's a language thing.

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:46 pm

So here is a slice of reality. Walking around supermarket. Different bodies different directions. I switch the self on and judge the apparel of some other shoppers but quickly switch it off when I realise Im in self mode.There is no judgements in reality in the sense that judgements are just thoughts. They carry no impact. The body is the only thing that can move or change anything physically. The wife tells me I forgot the bags. Im about to condemn myself but realise Im condemning no-one. There is nothing to condemn. I just have to go get the bags. My body runs to get them passing other bodies. I recall looking at a baby-just seing the baby as it is. A body. A baby. Observing. Not adding anything to the reality.

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Damon Kamda
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby Damon Kamda » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:07 am

Thanks for that.

You're still doing it wrong, though ;-)
We're not talking about the same thing at all.

You're approaching this as an excercise in morality, in becoming a better person, less judgemental, all of which is perfectly fine and good, yet it has exactly as much to do with what we're pointing to here as eating pie or making crossword puzzled. Seriously. It is completely irrelevant to what I'm trying to show you here.
I switch the self on and judge the apparel of some other shoppers but quickly switch it off when I realise Im in self mode.
This is not about switching anything on and off.

It's about clearly seeing that there is no self-mode.
There is no self at all.

And no one to switch anything on and off.
There is no judgements in reality in the sense that judgements are just thoughts. They carry no impact.
I'd say judgements are there in reality (of course there are- "I think that guy over there smells funny", that's a judgements and it does have impact- i.e. I treat him badly, evade him, whatever).

Again- this is the moral appraoch you're taking, which is fine and good in life- I'm all for less judgement, more tolerance and compassion, yet that is completely secondary to this.

The real question is: is there someone making these judgements? Is there someone who can decide which judgement to make or not to make judgments at all?
There is nothing to condemn.
Nope, that's exactly the wrong approach.
There is plenty to condemn- look- so much stuff going wrong, so much people behaving like idiots.
Look at what is assumed to be the *other* side of the mechanism: the condemner- the YOU.

There is no one to do the condemning.

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:15 pm

Ok Im obviously on the wrong track here so why dont YOU write me what reality is because at this stage Im lost. So your turn. Please dont just pose another question. Has not obviously worked .

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:19 pm

I do get your idea that there is no condemner. So what exactly will I write about then? One body lying in bed typing. thoughts float here there. If I start outlining any of these thoughta -i get a text complaining about me doing that!! So I really think its up to YOU to give me a slice of reality. Otherwise this is sophistry of the worst kind!

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:27 pm

I accept There is no I doing anything. Have now for several months. I accept that when I get a sense of self there is no reality to that. But "my " judgement is that this process is that it is flawed Exactly how I cant say but again these are just thoughts . Thats it. Thought. Nothing more nothing less.

My apologies for the string of texts. Im putting it you to explain reality. If you dont want to continue and do that ,then perhaps we should just each walk away and I will sort this out myself. im certain not all the fault would be mine!!

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Damon Kamda
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby Damon Kamda » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:38 am

Im putting it you to explain reality.
Mate, I've been doing nothing else all of this time.
It is entirely up to you to actually look at reality to ascertain if it is true or not.
then perhaps we should just each walk away and I will sort this out myself. im certain not all the fault would be mine!!
You want to play that game? Ok. Fine.

YOU are right. It is MY fault, not YOURS.

YOU are not to blame.
YOU are a good person, don't worry.
YOU have done everything YOU could.
I apologize for MY inability to make YOU see.

This thread is now open to all LU guides who are willing to help out.

Thanks for the exchange and good luck.

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nonaparry
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby nonaparry » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:31 am

Barry, why are you here?? WHY are you here, and why are you HERE?

Do you know what we do here? We point to the observable fact that there is no 'self' in reality. That is what we do. You are invited to follow the steps, answer the questions, and LOOK for yourself. That is all.

Our job is not to explain reality; we are only here to point to the gate. You have to go through it yourself.

Let me know if you choose to work.
Cheers
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


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