New to This -help needed

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:30 pm

Nope, these blues are real blues, they're just not yours. Just happening, as everything else.

;-)
Well , its still crap!! Thanks for that-I think. Will be in touch in a few days.

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:15 pm

The blues passed. Too much beer I think . I keep getting dragged back to the ego-to an ego centric view of the world. The drama of it is attractive -she said he said you know the gossip. But the price for this is too high and the truth obviously is not the ego. Would it be best if I went off for a few weeks and just focused on the truth?

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Damon Kamda
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby Damon Kamda » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:03 pm

Hi, sorry to keep you hanging like this... have been a bit ill lately.
The blues passed.
They always do, don't they?
Too much beer I think .
Haha, cheers mate.

Now, are you ready to get focused again? Let's end this once and for all, allright?
I keep getting dragged back to the ego-to an ego centric view of the world.
So? Much like the blues, perspectives come and go as well.
Since there is no such thing as self, how would it be possible to get dragged back to it?
The drama of it is attractive -she said he said you know the gossip. But the price for this is too high and the truth obviously is not the ego
Yes, drama is awesome. Gotta love it.
Still doesn't mean there is a self, though...
Would it be best if I went off for a few weeks and just focused on the truth?
Well...

No.

What does "focusing on the truth" mean to you?

If you would actually already have seen the truth, there would be no need to focus on it or go off for a few weeks or even be here doing this, now would there?

Seems to me like your still chasing your own story of what truth might be, which is completely fine of course, but this seeking will go on forever if you're not willing to come to a point of admitting you know absolutely nothing, haven't got a clue.

Then read, as in PAY ATTENTION (!!!), to what I've been pointing at all this time:
it seems like you're trying to match an idea of some kind of 'no-self theory' with a belief in the necessity of morality. Stop doing that. Stop theorizing and look at what is right in front of you at this very moment, man!

There is no self.
None at all.
Nothing separate from this- this- THIS!!!

What is happening right now- this is it- nothing separate from that at all.

Utterly impossible.

You see? No separation possible at all. Just this.
Then write down what comes up and face it, instead of coming up with excuses not to look.

Ok?

Thanks!!!

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:55 pm

Will do so just up to my eyes with work. Give me a day or two-please?

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Damon Kamda
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby Damon Kamda » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:30 pm

Will do so just up to my eyes with work. Give me a day or two-please?
Sure.

It's just that procrastination may very well be a trick of the mind here- there will always be reasons not to look.
No time is needed for this to be seen at all- just a fraction of a nanosecond of real honesty will be enough.

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:05 pm

Well as Freud says-sometimes a cigar in a dream is just a cigar. I was busy and had no time to access the computer!
I have tried briefly to live in the moment of honesty and it felt empty but true. Does that make sense? It seemed like I was an outsider on life in the sense that all I saw was bodies around me moving here and there. It felt like I was invisible. I just felt strange. I didnt have a history-they didnt but thought they did.

I will write more again. I find it difficult to describe because description can be interpretive and is not interpretation the ego?

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Damon Kamda
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby Damon Kamda » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:23 pm

Well as Freud says-sometimes a cigar in a dream is just a cigar. I was busy and had no time to access the computer!
;-)
I have tried briefly to live in the moment of honesty and it felt empty but true. Does that make sense? It seemed like I was an outsider on life in the sense that all I saw was bodies around me moving here and there. It felt like I was invisible. I just felt strange. I didnt have a history-they didnt but thought they did
No, that doesn't make sense.
I have no idea what you're doing here, but it makes no sense in the present context. This sounds like some kind of dissociation, like retreating into a sort of witness or ghost state. Yes, all of that is possible, yet it has literally nothing to do with what we're pointing to here. In fact, it is the exact opposite. So you might want to consider not doing that anymore, it won't be helpful.
I was an outsider on life
Where does I end and life begin then? What I is there to be outside of life?
I will write more again. I find it difficult to describe because description can be interpretive and is not interpretation the ego?
No.

So, please describe.
Look directly at what is being experienced, right now, and describe, in minute detail how and where a self is experienced.

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:09 pm

You mean like this??

Im typing at a computer or this figure(human) is typing. eyes look at the screen. "I" as in this body hears the sound of my typing and the computer processor. Various images are taken in as I look around. The ego interrupts and tells me this guy "instructing me" is a not that helpful but that is just the ego doing its thin finding fault with others. "I" think of what to type next and words float through my head. They float first and then are typed. A few seconds of nothing-no words,no thoughts. I put this down type it. Eyes are tired. The body didnt sleep that well last night and I have another day of teaching morons Monday but that is the ego inserting again.

Is that the sort of thing you mean. If not I really need an example from you t show me.Otherwise we are just wasting our time.

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:15 pm

The eyes feel tired. The body. I worry about the morning. What I have to face. What I have to do. A few images flash. I hear the sound of my neighbors water pump. Most have prostrate trouble-he goes to the loo that often. Various pains in my body come to my attention. my one finger typing catches my attention . I worry if this is what the "fecker" wants. I wonder if he knows Irish people always mildly curse and thus wont be offended but but but that does not exist. The me caring about his feelings. That thought crosses my mind. Will he now complain that Im intellectualising? Is that not what a brain is for. A little narrative goes on and on. Random thoughts. Random creations

Good night everybody as the osmounds used to say. Fragmnts. Random. Random.

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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby Damon Kamda » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:57 am

Is that the sort of thing you mean. If not I really need an example from you t show me.Otherwise we are just wasting our time.
Yes, that is sort of what I mean.

Yet, I'm not inviting you just to give an uninterrupted stream-of-consciousness report, but also to focus on the question Is there a self here in any way, shape, or form? So, within the entirety of the experience of the present moment, is there a self?

There's still a big, fat, ugly unchecked assumption in what you write.
the ego interrupts and tells me
that is just the ego doing its thin finding fault with others.
but that is the ego inserting again
You keep referring to the ego as an entity, something that is able to act, make choices and do things.
What you keep calling ego, we refer to as the idea of self here. The idea of a self that has the ability to act upon the world and thought. That is exactly the idea that we're asking you to examine. Is it true? Is it actually there?
Otherwise we are just wasting our time
Perhaps. Give me a sign that you understand what I am constantly asking you to do.
Otherwise, I'll open up this thread to all of the other guides here and we're going to try a completely different approach.

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:58 pm

The plain answer is there is no self there-physically. A collection of thoughts just call themselves that or "I" call them that. You are right the ego does not initiate anything. I just collate them or pass an opinion and file it under ego or ascribe iot to ego-does that make any sense?

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:01 pm

You keep referring to the ego as an entity, something that is able to act, make choices and do things.
What you keep calling ego, we refer to as the idea of self here. The idea of a self that has the ability to act upon the world and thought. That is exactly the idea that we're asking you to examine. Is it true? Is it actually there?

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:02 pm

Sorry that last attempt of trying to use a quote went askew:
You keep referring to the ego as an entity, something that is able to act, make choices and do things.
What you keep calling ego, we refer to as the idea of self here. The idea of a self that has the ability to act upon the world and thought. That is exactly the idea that we're asking you to examine. Is it true? Is it actually there?

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demellolives
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby demellolives » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:11 pm

Im sleep deprived and made a balls of those quotes.

I do see that the idea of a self that thinks it can act on the world is false. A body does things. I think and then I do stuff ie I would like glass of water. I get the water. But its just thought to action. There is no self in my head that makes that choice. Its just a thought but no entity. It has no life. Im conscious Im alive but my consciousness is simply a matter of being awake or asleep.

Im typing now just putting thoughts in.

Im I heading in the right direction?

I got annoyed today or should I say my thoughts or false sense of self decided I was affronted by a comment about not covering my mouth when I coughed. Back story was assembled but it was a conscious choice to decide to create a self that was offended. Nothing happened in that one body commented on another body's action.

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Damon Kamda
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Re: New to This -help needed

Postby Damon Kamda » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:36 am

Apparently, the quoting thing is not too straightforward.

What you need to do is select the text you want to quote, in the text edit field, and then press the quote button, so that in front of the section to quote it will say {quote} and after the section {/quote}, where each { } is replaced by [ ].
The plain answer is there is no self there-physically. A collection of thoughts just call themselves that or "I" call them that. You are right the ego does not initiate anything. I just collate them or pass an opinion and file it under ego or ascribe iot to ego-does that make any sense?
Yes! Every time you say "that is the ego stepping in" or something similar, that is simply a morally charged or coloured thought. The absence of presence of which is utterly irrelevant to awakening. Do you get this now?

This is not about becoming "a better person".
This is about seeing there is no such thing as a person at all.
Just thoughts.
I do see that the idea of a self that thinks it can act on the world is false. A body does things. I think and then I do stuff ie I would like glass of water. I get the water. But its just thought to action. There is no self in my head that makes that choice. Its just a thought but no entity. It has no life. Im conscious Im alive but my consciousness is simply a matter of being awake or asleep.
Yes....
Im I heading in the right direction?
It certainly seems that way. You just need to focus a bit more. Note that there is absolutely nothing wrong with using personal pronouns, yet for the present purpose it would help if you could be a bit more precise in your writing. Take the paragraph I just quoted above. There is still quite a bt of ambiguity in there. Who is conscious? Who is alive? To whom does the consciousness belong?
I got annoyed today or should I say my thoughts or false sense of self decided I was affronted by a comment about not covering my mouth when I coughed. Back story was assembled but it was a conscious choice to decide to create a self that was offended. Nothing happened in that one body commented on another body's action.
That presupposes a number of things:

- that a thought or a sense of self can decide something. Is that true?
- that someone is making a conscious choice to create a self. Is that true?

Look at what actually happens in that concrete example.

Coughing happens. A mouth is not covered...

Then go into detail and show me EXACTLY where the moment of choice, decision, i.e. the moment of self is.


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