Looking for help.

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Dawid
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Re: Looking for help.

Postby Dawid » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:48 am

I dont get your last post, sorry.

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Ingen
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Re: Looking for help.

Postby Ingen » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:38 am

So, again..
thought appears --> poof --> "I thought that" 
Ok you got that part.
Nothing of substance can be found, still theres this sense that THERE IS SOMETHING. Im trying to go from not seeing it to seeing it. Im trying to get rid of this sense.  
The sense of self is not the same as self. A sense of danger, a sense of summer, a sense of Christmas. Body feelings, memories, associated stories. No need to get rid of that.
When Im writing about it, thinking about it, it seems to make less and less sense. Also it feels like its something close to me. Like, if it would disappear I would feel empty. But also it would mean there's only the organism, like a vehicle and it has no limits and can be whatever it wants to be. 
Are you afraid of emptiness?  And what do you mean by vehicle?
What is there which is not thoughts? I dont know, cant see anything.

What is there which is not thoughts? I dont know, cant see anything.
Look around you. Smell, hear, feel. That's it. It is never empty. 

It even includes thoughts- just don't believe them.
You don't get it as "not understand it"? I was addressing the "emptiness".


YOU don't exist as a reality. Dawid is a fictional character. We have come so far, right?

So, look around. What is left without a you? I mean, clearly something is going on. Experiencing is happening. Smelling, seeing, thinking, feeling, life-ing is happening. That's it. That is IT. Life. Insisting on "there must be someone experiencing all that is taking Grammar too seriously. (there must be a subject if there is a verb).

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Dawid
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Re: Looking for help.

Postby Dawid » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:56 pm

I dont think Im afraid of emptiness. I guess liberation would feel as if something familiar was lost.
By vehicle, I mean the whole organism. Right now it feels like there is someone in the vehicle (self controlling the body).

As for your last post I just didnt know what you were talking about but it's fine now.

What is left without a you?

Without a you everything is the same. Life goes on and nothing changes. But I dont know if Im saying this because I really know it or because I read it somewhere.

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Ingen
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Looking for help.

Postby Ingen » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:23 pm

Read my last post again. That about sense of self.

And that part about *looking around*.

Stop looking "in", there is nothing there. What else is happening? Open your eyes, literally. How does the world look and feel, with nobody "doing looking?"

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Dawid
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Re: Looking for help.

Postby Dawid » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:37 am

There are thoughts in the head. one of them said right now "I dont know what to write here... " and another one "this is pointless". Im looking around, looking out the window. another thought comes up "its freezing as fuck today". Im scratching my head, thinking what to write and looking at some guy through the window. I can go on and on, but is this what you wanted me to do (I dont know if I understood you well)? Cause I dont want to write a useless wall of text.

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Ingen
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Re: Looking for help.

Postby Ingen » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:20 am

There are thoughts in the head. one of them said right now "I dont know what to write here... " and another one "this is pointless". Im looking around, looking out the window. another thought comes up "its freezing as fuck today". Im scratching my head, thinking what to write and looking at some guy through the window.
Yes, these are the thoughts. Stories. The Dawid character is doing voiceover (and complaining. Complaining is a big part of the characters' story).

You are living in the virtual world of your thoughts. You are dismissing the real, because it is so obvious. There is nothing to "get".

What is there without the thoughts? Remember the "direct experience excercises"? LOOK.

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Dawid
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Re: Looking for help.

Postby Dawid » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:24 pm

the bit about complaining made me laugh.

what is there without thoughts?

everything that exists, sights, sounds etc..

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Ingen
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Re: Looking for help.

Postby Ingen » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:09 pm

Let's take a detour around awareness.
what is there without thoughts? everything that exists, sights, sounds etc..
Exactly. And where is all this happening? In awareness. All that exists, exists (only) in awareness.

And now let's look at what you wrote before:
By vehicle, I mean the whole organism. Right now it feels like there is someone in the vehicle (self controlling the body).
Can you see what's wrong here? There is not awareness in the seeming "vehicle"- organism.

The organism (and all other sights, sounds etc.) are in awareness.

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Dawid
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Re: Looking for help.

Postby Dawid » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:43 pm

So you're saying that things exist only in awareness, which means that things only exist as images, sounds and everything else that comes through the senses?

Actually it feels more true that organism is in awareness not awareness in the organism. I had thoughts today that the only thing that exists is experience, even the experience of this body, etc. but it seemed like a distant, hard to grasp idea.

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Ingen
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Re: Looking for help.

Postby Ingen » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:45 am

So you're saying that things exist only in awareness, which means that things only exist as images, sounds and everything else that comes through the senses?
Yes. All you ever know about "things" is what arises in awareness. What's "out there", (if there is something out there) is a undefined, undescribable continuum. Existence = awareness.
Actually it feels more true that organism is in awareness not awareness in the organism. I had thoughts today that the only thing that exists is experience, even the experience of this body, etc. but it seemed like a distant, hard to grasp idea.
It is obvious, not hard to grasp at all. You have been trained to take the stories more seriously than reality.

Go for a walk, how does it feel? Experience is all there is. No you.

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Dawid
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Re: Looking for help.

Postby Dawid » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:54 pm

I've been thinking a lot today about that experience is the only thing that exist. There's only that which is perceived by the senses. I asked myself "is there something that's not experience?" and I couldn't come up with anything.

Thoughts, emotions, feelings in the body, sights, smells, sounds, everything is experience.

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Ingen
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Re: Looking for help.

Postby Ingen » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:57 pm

Thoughts, emotions, feelings in the body, sights, smells, sounds, everything is experience.
And it always was like that. Does it feel different than before?

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Dawid
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Re: Looking for help.

Postby Dawid » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:17 pm

No it doesn't Ingen.

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Ingen
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Re: Looking for help.

Postby Ingen » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:35 pm

Just felt like asking.

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Dawid
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Re: Looking for help.

Postby Dawid » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:41 am

So... what now?


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