One-on-one, are you ready?

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Life
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Re: One-on-one, are you ready?

Postby Life » Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:43 pm

But how can the seeing be who you are? It is happening without your choosing, right?

I mean can you snap your fingers and make it stop? Choose if and when it begins again?

Nothing to do with the looking, are you doing it?
If I do it again to that point it will again collapse and go on as just being and then turn back to the conceptual "me".
What will collapse and turn back where? This conceptual me is only a thought, thinking is labelling the looking mine ''I did the looking"' and ''I need to do it again''. You want to take credit for this but there is nobody there to take it!

Think you have seen it, but mistake the state of silence for the seeing and want to hold on to it, and so when there is another i thought you think you lost it, but there is nothing to lose or get rid of... The (I) thoughts will stay, only now it can be seen they are not yours and do not point to an existing self/controller of life...

You see?
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Heart
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Re: One-on-one, are you ready?

Postby Heart » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:30 pm

But how can the seeing be who you are? It is happening without your choosing, right?

Right. And still it doesn't contradict one another.

I mean can you snap your fingers and make it stop? Choose if and when it begins again?

I never really believed that my life is something I can guide. My system of concepts includes understanding that life lives through me and by me. Maybe that's the reason why I can't find any contradiction. Besides I was in some states which you cannot control at all and still you feel some sense of consciousness which you feel as "myself". So, if we want to move from this dead end I should find some other evidence that "I" don't exist. Something not connected with control.

Nothing to do with the looking, are you doing it?

No, I don't do it... but I can't tell you for sure on what level I see this.
If I do it again to that point it will again collapse and go on as just being and then turn back to the conceptual "me".
What will collapse and turn back where? This conceptual me is only a thought, thinking is labelling the looking mine ''I did the looking"' and ''I need to do it again''. You want to take credit for this but there is nobody there to take it!

I knew you will write this... but I can't change the language, I can't always use non-personal sentences. About collapse - my mind will collapse.

Think you have seen it, but mistake the state of silence for the seeing and want to hold on to it, and so when there is another i thought you think you lost it, but there is nothing to lose or get rid of... The (I) thoughts will stay, only now it can be seen they are not yours and do not point to an existing self/controller of life...

You see?
Yes... I wrote that it could be some very strong state. I just don't know how it can be seen if it was not seen by seeing directly into the seeing. Maybe I just need to watch my mind for a very long time to stop identification with it. For now I come to understanding that nothing can be done. It will happen when it will happen or maybe will not happen at all.

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Re: One-on-one, are you ready?

Postby Life » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:20 pm

But how can the seeing be who you are? It is happening without your choosing, right?

Right. And still it doesn't contradict one another.
There is a very significant difference, if you are the seer you are doing the seeing, are you?

I mean can you snap your fingers and make it stop? Choose if and when it begins again?

I never really believed that my life is something I can guide. My system of concepts includes understanding that life lives through me and by me. Maybe that's the reason why I can't find any contradiction. Besides I was in some states which you cannot control at all and still you feel some sense of consciousness which you feel as "myself". So, if we want to move from this dead end I should find some other evidence that "I" don't exist. Something not connected with control.

Nothing to do with the looking, are you doing it?

No, I don't do it... but I can't tell you for sure on what level I see this.
There are no levels of seeing this you either see it or you dont.
If I do it again to that point it will again collapse and go on as just being and then turn back to the conceptual "me".
What will collapse and turn back where? This conceptual me is only a thought, thinking is labelling the looking mine ''I did the looking"' and ''I need to do it again''. You want to take credit for this but there is nobody there to take it!

I knew you will write this... but I can't change the language, I can't always use non-personal sentences. About collapse - my mind will collapse.
dont matter what words are used it matters what is seen, words are just all we have to communicate. No it wont collapse, just seen for what it is

Think you have seen it, but mistake the state of silence for the seeing and want to hold on to it, and so when there is another i thought you think you lost it, but there is nothing to lose or get rid of... The (I) thoughts will stay, only now it can be seen they are not yours and do not point to an existing self/controller of life...

You see?
Yes... I wrote that it could be some very strong state. I just don't know how it can be seen if it was not seen by seeing directly into the seeing. Maybe I just need to watch my mind for a very long time to stop identification with it. For now I come to understanding that nothing can be done. It will happen when it will happen or maybe will not happen at all.
Have not told you to look directly into seeing but to find out if there is a seer or just seeing. Identification will end when it is seen if there is a self or not. Watching the mind itself wont help, seeing if the thoughts happen without control or not will, this happens in an instance.Can you see that this is not about disidentifying with anything, but seeing if there is an I or not to do the identification or disidentification in the first place?

Look at this: ''In the seeing, just the seen, in the hearing just the heard, in the smelling just the smelled, in the feeling just the felt, in thinking just the thought.'' Now lets look closer: Your not making the eyes look, the ears hear, the nose smell, the skin feel or the mind think neither are you any of them, right? But all of them together you say you are, isn't that strange? There is not a thing called me at the end of the senses, just the sensing and the sensed, no doer.

Look at the hands without the thought, "my hands". For a second or two, let the "my" thoughts fall away. Then, look at the legs without the thought, "my legs". Just gaze at them. See how they exist even without the "me" or "my" thoughts, and how nothing about reality changes one bit without those thoughts.

Bring yourself back to thoughts of "my hands", then repeat the exercise a few times. Look at them without thought, then bring the thought back in.
What happens to the body without the thoughts? Can you say what the object even is? Does it "belong" to anything? Does it continue to exist in physical reality?''

Nothing to do to make it happen is right, but it still needs to be seen if there is a you doing anything or not...

To be clear this is not about my opinion or truth vs yours, it is about seeing what is truth.
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Heart
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Re: One-on-one, are you ready?

Postby Heart » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:51 pm

Oh... that's crazy. They really look like not mine! As if a huge bunch of thoughts was constantly attached to seeing them to make them "mine" - all the story about thinking they are "mine". When they move they are far away and there are only some physical sensations - like pressure, temperature of the air, etc. When thought as "mine" again they seem to be closer but only as abstraction, not real hands. Awesome!

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Re: One-on-one, are you ready?

Postby Life » Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:35 pm

Nah hands are real, legs are real, body is real just not yours. If you mean the word hand is only a label/concept then yeah.

So do you exist?

Another thing besides 100% honest answers looked at in experience there is more needed which is: I ask questions, you take the time to actually look, and then you answer, okay? This is the most effective way to ''freedom''. Not because your not doing great but I forgot to tell you :)
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Re: One-on-one, are you ready?

Postby Life » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:36 pm

Time's up ;)

Am not asking for the perfect answer, but what is your answer at this moment, look at as if your five year old without conditioning. Forget all you have learned, look, then answer what comes up...

Is something stopping you? Know this can feel as a very big thing, but is a small shift, really.
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Heart
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Re: One-on-one, are you ready?

Postby Heart » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:13 am

I just become very calm and silent. No answer is coming. Nothing is stopping, nothing is happening.

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Re: One-on-one, are you ready?

Postby Life » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:20 pm

I just become very calm and silent. No answer is coming. Nothing is stopping, nothing is happening.
Do you become very calm and silent, or is there calmness and silence, no you being calm and silent? Please answer!

You either exist or you dont simple as that! Does you exist? Please answer! A for yes B for no ;)

Nothing is happening? So how did you type this message? How did you get up this morning? Everything happens, does it happen to you? Fill in answers on the dots ......................................................................... ;)
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Re: One-on-one, are you ready?

Postby Heart » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:55 pm

Come on! Are you kidding me? It was not a philosophical answer! By nothing is happening I mean I don't see that there is no me! I just looked without any conditioning and knowledge as you asked. How can I answer your questions if I simply don't see? For me it feels like I do exist, but I know that's not true :(

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Re: One-on-one, are you ready?

Postby Life » Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:47 pm

ok did not understand correctly.

nothing needs to happen, only seen.

as indicated, this feeling there is an I is not going anywhere it has its function, there only needs to be seen if it points to something existing or only imagination.

so how do you know you exist? notice, as you are sitting there. only sensations and then thoughs about these sensations being yours. all of these sensations and thoughts are totally impermanent, one moment they are there and identified as yours the next moment they are gone without a trace and on and on this process goes. this happens very fast but can be noticed, is there an I in control of this process or does it just happen without a controller?
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Re: One-on-one, are you ready?

Postby Heart » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:36 pm

Sometimes I can see that body moves by itself and even the feelings appear and disappear by themselves, but I can't clearly see if I am in control of the thoughts. It looks like some of them go by themselves and some of them I can control - like when I decide to drop the "I" thoughts about my body. I know it only seems so, but still I can't see how it is really. Somehow it's easy with the body but not with the thoughts.

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Re: One-on-one, are you ready?

Postby Life » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:52 pm

Ok thank you.

Understand what your saying, most of the time there seems to be control over thought, not when I say dont think about the pink panther there just comes a thought about the pink panther and that odd tune, but when you think of something smart or funny to say suddenly they are identified as yours.

So how to clearly see that no matter what the content of the thoughts are they are not your thoughts but just thoughts without a thinker?

Let the eyes close (after reading this), look at thoughts, do not get caught up in the content just look at how your experiencing thoughts, look at where you are experiencing them, how they feel, how big they are and how they would sound on a slow playing record, how long do they last, where are their boundaries? where do they come from? Is there something behind them having them?




How does the identification happen? Can be seen best in morning first second you wake, first thoughts that come about what day it is come without identification, but when thoughts come about seeming problems or seeing if there is a self or not or thoughts you like or dont want to have or insights are labelled mine, how does this happen?

Do this a few times, tell me what is seen.
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Heart
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Re: One-on-one, are you ready?

Postby Heart » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:11 pm

Ok thank you.

Understand what your saying, most of the time there seems to be control over thought, not when I say dont think about the pink panther there just comes a thought about the pink panther and that odd tune, but when you think of something smart or funny to say suddenly they are identified as yours.

So how to clearly see that no matter what the content of the thoughts are they are not your thoughts but just thoughts without a thinker?

Let the eyes close (after reading this), look at thoughts, do not get caught up in the content just look at how your experiencing thoughts, look at where you are experiencing them, how they feel, how big they are and how they would sound on a slow playing record, how long do they last, where are their boundaries? where do they come from? Is there something behind them having them?
There are different flows of thoughts with different speed and loudness - as if lines typed in different print. Those in small print are very fast and look like descriptions or commentaries of what is seen, felt or remembered. They are mostly non-personal and hard to catch. Thought which have "I" in them are very loud and look not natural, as if being played, like speaking to myself - "I should do this" or even "you should do that". Maybe it's because in my native language personal pronouns are not obligatory and I rarely use them in my thoughts.

Now about not getting caught up in the content: when a thought comes it feels like I flow with it (it's like watching a movie or even participating in it) then I remember that I shouldn't involve and stop only to find out that a reminder was also a thoughs (maybe of a smaller print but still a thought). When I look at them they stop in the middle of a sentence only to start again from some other "direction" where I can't catch them. Like thousands of little mouses playing hide and seek. So it looks like they last as long as I involve or just hear them but if I look closer they disappear. I can't find out where they come from or is there something behind them having them because wherever I look there are only thoughts, nothing else. The Matrix got me! :)))))
How does the identification happen? Can be seen best in morning first second you wake, first thoughts that come about what day it is come without identification, but when thoughts come about seeming problems or seeing if there is a self or not or thoughts you like or dont want to have or insights are labelled mine, how does this happen?

Do this a few times, tell me what is seen.
This one I will check once again and then write back.

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Life
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Re: One-on-one, are you ready?

Postby Life » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:22 pm

Good, keep looking, not only in the morning ;)
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Heart
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Re: One-on-one, are you ready?

Postby Heart » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:55 pm

Sorry, it seems all hell breaks loose these days! I will write as soon as I can!


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