I would like to have a conversation with LIFE/Machiel

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Life
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Re: I would like to have a conversation with LIFE/Machiel

Postby Life » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:16 pm

Hi Life,

I stopped for a couple of months and then somehow I seeked again. I still don't see God nowhere, as all stuff or glimpses of the past won't do right now. The only thing that is happening at this moment that there is a JAvier typing this. I cannot fool myself at this moment, despite of the hunderds of little moments of 'happening by itself' and seeing oneness in a itching sensation.

Are you available again and can we take this very, very slowly. When I look into direct experience, I am an I trying to look, which distracts me. It gives me headaches and stress, which is good, because it baiscally forces me to stop thinking so much.

What is seen there, is not seen here now. I cannot see what is happening there or how God looks like. The words 'It is THIS' won't do. I have a notion that the I can NEVER experience Oneness or God or whatever.
If it is seen or not seen does not determine if what is considered self is really self.

The notion is exactly right, what you realy are cannot be experienced cause you are it, like the eye cant see itself. But to be able to know this for certain it is essential first seeing that whatever is cannot be self in any way.

1) I have been looking into senses lately during the whole day. Not only 1 hour but during the whole day. I noticed that 'water' doesn't contain taste. Only when I put the whole damed thing in my mouth, there is taste. So taste depends on the tongue. So the taste of water is happening there downunder, at the tip of the tongue. And it seems that there is an I who sees that taste happen. Same with itching sensations or touch. No coldness in doors....only when hand is laid upon it, there is coldness. So feeling coldness is happening at the hand's level. That is the touching itself. Right there. And I sit in the brain seeing that. Not sure how to explain it. And then I look into thought claiming something like 'I taste the water' and 'I hear sound from an airplane outside'. If the tasting is made out of taste of water, what is this I? It feels like saying 'I taste the tasting of water'. So I don't understand awareness, which leaves me with no option than to perhaps believe in that thought. And there is an attention which awakens to itself and goes to the itching sensation right after it happens. Is this awareness? I guess not, as that too is an object.
Are you anything sensed?
2) I cannot find what I really am in an object. So awareness doesn't show up or I cannot become it or understand it or feel it out. Therefor, the whole awarneess thing is gobbly gook to me. it feels that it even doesn't exist. I can only find taste of water, coldness of door, sounds coming out of a speaker.

Sometimes I say to myself ' now you are not going to know what is happening in the body'. I try to do something without me knowing it, like moving my foot. But I know exactly what is happenign even if I do nothing.

Sometimes I am caught up in thought. Sometimes not. I am looking for how it feels to be awarenesss and not an I. It totally sets me off of this present moment.

take care and perhaps see you here!

Sorry to be a hardcore seeker, but if 'Oneness' wants me to experience it, there is no other way.
Lets get to the point, very simple, what do you consider to be you which should make a whole lot of effort to get to oneness? What are you trying to make experience or become oneness or awareness? Sitting in front of the computer happens, does it take effort?

Notice there are still a lot of thoughts about this, try this: When there are a lot of thoughts at any time notice the last thought ''I dont get this and i never will'' for example, keep focussing on it, where is it now? And now? And now? Can you find it? If not can you be thought? Find out/look what is there before, during and after the thought? Dont have expectations, it cannot be experienced by senses or mind in any way, not by something you do in space and time.

Alright take care!
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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The Toe
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Re: I would like to have a conversation with LIFE/Machiel

Postby The Toe » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:40 am

hey Life,

good to see ya.

hey, something happened.

It happened before 2 years ago but yesterday at night I took a look and asked :

'what is this I?'

It is thought that says 'I '.

So there was a looking into other thoughts today.

Great laughter arises when seen that it is just thought making a mumbo jumbo out of it, refering to something which isn't there. For example: 'I am an asshole or I am stupid. ' ..... how can a thought be an asshole?
Same thing with this thought: ' I am going to pick a pen and throw it on the ground now'. How can a thought do something. A thought doesn't have hands to throw anything on the ground.

And then at times today tension and shyness arises when the I story is believed in, especially with those seeking thoughts like 'I am gonna open my hand at will' or 'I am gonna grab a botttle of water now'. BUt sometimes that illusion is seen to be fake. But then not. Like a pivoting.

There is a thin line it seems between belief and seeing that a thought cannot do antyhing but pretend and take ownership of feelings, senses and doership. There is a opening. And today also sometimes bodily-actions happen by itself, including senses and intuitions to move a body-part.

Also scary, when nothing can be known during those moments of seeing that I is Donald Duck. All grasping, opinions comes from the I. But thinking it is scary is another thought believed in. Also a sense that there was no JAvier in the past, but this opening has been going on for 1 day. A thought says now ' I have been Javier back then too'. It is thought that says it has been there too. So thought (not Javier) has been showing up in the past too.

And now a thought says 'I am gonna go to bed '. This time there is a stopping, a checking out if this is true. What a ride! A thought that can actually walk and put itself under blankets. And again a thopught that says 'I am an I'......a thought saying it is a thought.

As you probably notice.....there is a fight goin on between belief and no belief, and this time I know that the belief in being that thought or the thinker of that thought is causing alll the drama of my world and that a I thought cannot eat, swim, hear or type words with imaginary thought-fingers.

Exhausted now. rebelious thoughts.

take care

javier

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Re: I would like to have a conversation with LIFE/Machiel

Postby Life » Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:26 pm

There is a thin line it seems between belief and seeing that a thought cannot do antyhing but pretend and take ownership of feelings, senses and doership. There is a opening. And today also sometimes bodily-actions happen by itself, including senses and intuitions to move a body-part.
Yes belief is not seeing at all.

Ok but could it not be so that these actions already always happen without a separate you doing it?

A thought cannot do anything let alone be you, so what can?
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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The Toe
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Re: I would like to have a conversation with LIFE/Machiel

Postby The Toe » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:17 am

Ok but could it not be so that these actions already always happen without a separate you doing it?
yes. so many moments today that stuff just happen. too many to mention now. there was a shivering or shaking of the body for 20 minutes, when the attention or intention went on , directed by no one. And same with tilting the head to the right, a movement of hand and opening and closing the eyes and standing up and going to the window and feeling stuff in the body. so many beliefs dropped these 2 days. NOt all.
A thought cannot do anything let alone be you, so what can?
there has been checking out this I and what it really is. Even the question 'what is I' is popping up by itself. There has been a contraction of shyness felt in the body for a couple of times this day when a thought is believed in.
After that then again the question is asked 'what is this I?'. Then thought says 'I am an I , damned'. lol.
I is thought. am is thought and an I is also thought.

Lots of thought have been popping up from :

I am a body
I am a soul
I am not and I , but something else.

still all thought. A soul cannot be a thought, a body is a body and something else is still thought, no reference point.

and a difficult one sometimes ' I am not an I but something pointing to a seperate indiviudal energy that can do something outside thought and it not thought'. It is thought claiming there to be soemthing out there. The difficulty is that there is a feeling that something sits behind the eyes, between ears. Then thought says 'I am the awareness sitting there'. Then there is also a noticing going on of little details, like attention going left, and also a superimposition or a feeling of energy going to the back of the eyes and saying 'me here and tree there'. Even that is noticiced. There is a felt sense that noticing is not an object.

another assumption is that thought itself has some kind of energy or uhmmm...the I is not pointing to a Javier but it ha qualities. Like thought says ' I am ugly' or ' I have a big nose ' . Sometimes almost feels as if thought and the assumed seperate self has swapped places. So when thought says 'I am javier, you there'. Or a thought that says 'it is understood that I is thought so go to hell then seperate self' . It feels a thought is made of some quality that can do something.
Do you understand what I am trying to convey?

That sums it up. crying, laughing, shivering, intense thoughts and out of the sudden 'old beliefs popping up in a continues race'. In moments of clarity, It is. In moments of confusion, It is not.

So there you go. the emphasis is on experience more and not on thought. Effortlessness is extremely on, but not 100% grokked.

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Re: I would like to have a conversation with LIFE/Machiel

Postby Life » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:00 pm

Actions and movements and emotions happen and thoughts come claiming this was intentional and that wasn't, does thought decide this? Can it if thought itself is happening totally unintentional?
That sums it up. crying, laughing, shivering, intense thoughts and out of the sudden 'old beliefs popping up in a continues race'. In moments of clarity, It is. In moments of confusion, It is not.

So there you go. the emphasis is on experience more and not on thought. Effortlessness is extremely on, but not 100% grokked.
Yes thought can seem very real certainly when things happen you dont like, but do you choose those thoughts?

Good to hear cause it is not about the ever changing thoughts. What is goingt to make effortlessness 100%? Isnt that effort?
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Re: I would like to have a conversation with LIFE/Machiel

Postby The Toe » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:56 pm

hi Life,

how is life?

I have rested for a couple of months now, seeing it all pass by me so to speak. I also been holding on the idea of that ''all is happening by itself' lately, checking it out in all senses by just looking at whatever is so.

But is damned difficult to realize that all is happening by itself. Pivoting from 1 realization into another and back again to contraction of being a me.

Thoughts push me right back into belief.

Sometimes the thought says that I am the 'automatic I that sees, hears, thinks and does stuff'. I am on automatic so to speak. Can't shut off the wind of the keyboard in front of me. It is terrible to be living in a world that according to others is BRahman/God itself and not being able to see it. COlours are sometimes painful to watch and I just wanna close my eyes for a moment to feel it out with feelings.

Anything that I am doing wrong?


javier

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Re: I would like to have a conversation with LIFE/Machiel

Postby Life » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:17 pm

hi Life,

how is life?

I have rested for a couple of months now, seeing it all pass by me so to speak. I also been holding on the idea of that ''all is happening by itself' lately, checking it out in all senses by just looking at whatever is so.

But is damned difficult to realize that all is happening by itself. Pivoting from 1 realization into another and back again to contraction of being a me.

Thoughts push me right back into belief.

Sometimes the thought says that I am the 'automatic I that sees, hears, thinks and does stuff'. I am on automatic so to speak. Can't shut off the wind of the keyboard in front of me. It is terrible to be living in a world that according to others is BRahman/God itself and not being able to see it. COlours are sometimes painful to watch and I just wanna close my eyes for a moment to feel it out with feelings.

Anything that I am doing wrong?


javier
Hi Javier, good to hear from you, lets put an end to this topic...

Well this is not about doing or not doing something in the first place, not about changing anything at all, everything already changes constantly.

What thoughts come is totally inrelevant, they are gone again immediately, can you still find them now? Can you look behind the thoughts? Where do they come from? What is aware of them?

Forget about others, about books, gurus, me, what you think you are, about god or brahman, if everything goes automatic or not, doer no doer, which are all intellectual concepts, just look can you find anything at all that is you always, that never changes or comes and goes? Does the contracted feeling that there is a me really mean there is a me? If this feeling comes and goes?
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Re: I would like to have a conversation with LIFE/Machiel

Postby The Toe » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:59 pm

just look can you find anything at all that is you always, that never changes or comes and goes? Does the contracted feeling that there is a me really mean there is a me? If this feeling comes and goes?
ok.

I will let grace put an end to this belief. I will remain in stillness and see what it is that never comes and goes.


greetings

javier

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Life
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Re: I would like to have a conversation with LIFE/Machiel

Postby Life » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:43 pm

Hi Javier, what is going on? Are you going on?

Although I'm a slow cook I think it's time to get back to the agreement of 1 post a day... That is if you would still want to be guided to see in your own experience if a self there right now.

No grace needed, if it were that would imply a self is needed to receive it, right? Silence is nice but firstly where is the one that creates it? If its created where is the one sustaining it? Secondly where is the one sitting in it? Silence or a lot of noise in the head has got nothing to do with if there is a self or not, look behind the thoughts, is anything there where the self should be?

One more thing about this Brahman/What Is and not seeing it, forget about it, it means there is only What Is no room for a you to see it, let's stick to what can be verified in direct experience right here, right now, without any effort to achieve anything... It does not take time, there being a self or not is not in the past nor in future, it can only be seen right now! No conditions to be made first...
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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Re: I would like to have a conversation with LIFE/Machiel

Postby The Toe » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:38 am

hi hoi life,

what is up man? long time no see. I am kinda seeing that it is about effortlessness. I also see that the seeker is based on a an assumption many times. fake.


there are many realisations that the I is just THOUGHT that happens by itself, assuming it is me. So thought cannot do anything,

But colors and sounds are not seen as truth. I can´t seem to recognize that seeing and hearing are happening by themselves.

It is easy to see that when I am standing in the supermarket, choosing a ingredient willl happen by itself and then the intention to get apples also and then the thought to get my wallet and say goodbye to the vender.

Bbut seeing and hearing.........difficult. Feeling is easy. I cant say when a feeling is gonna rise. any tips about seeing that seeing and hearing are ha`ppening by themselves?

javier

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Life
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Re: I would like to have a conversation with LIFE/Machiel

Postby Life » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:19 am

You have seen that your not who you think you are, now you think you have to make seeing this permanent, let me assure you this no self thing is just another experience, great to see but seeing or not seeing it does not depend on you, and cannot be made permanent by any means, stop trying (to get it).

You are done, you have my seal of approval!
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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The Toe
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Re: I would like to have a conversation with LIFE/Machiel

Postby The Toe » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:20 pm

there is still pivoting from belief to no belief like a madman. and I also see that when clarity arises, then thoughts are not followed, so you are right.......stop trying to get , cause thoughts assumes me that I have to get something, while it is happening by itself that thought.

ty

we shall see how it goes

have a nice day!

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Re: I would like to have a conversation with LIFE/Machiel

Postby Life » Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:33 pm

Belief, no belief who has it? Look for this.

Clarity comes and goes, thoughts come and go, do you come and go?

Is this you which is going to stop trying to get really there?

Living as if there is a you will continue, is this you really there?
Life...... Are you separate from it?

http://machielovic-justbeing.blogspot.com/

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The Toe
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Re: I would like to have a conversation with LIFE/Machiel

Postby The Toe » Thu May 03, 2018 11:57 pm

Hi Machiel,

I would like to continue this questioning as I feel I deeply need you to help me out with certain things.

So to answer your question. Who do you think you are?

Here is my answer.

I am a body that seeks for brahman, for god, for non dual truth.

I am a body. The body is me. I am a kinda of a doer, a seeker.

thanks

the toe

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Re: I would like to have a conversation with LIFE/Machiel

Postby forgetmenot » Fri May 11, 2018 12:07 am

Hello Toe,

Machiel/Life is no longer a guide at LU. I have had a quick look at your thread and I am willing to be your guide, however, it will be starting from scratch. I guide differently to Machiel, and I guide to a structure to assist in seeing how the illusory "I" is seemingly constructed and it is this that keeps the illusion 'alive', so to speak. Once seeing how it is constructed, then it is simpler to see through the stories about an I.

This exploration is not about finding what you are. It is about seeing through the ideas and beliefs of what you think you are ie a separate independent entity.

So, if you are willing to have me as a guide, and I can be very strict, then I would ask you to put aside everything you think you know and just be willing to look at what is being pointed at with an open and curious mind.

Are you in?

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/


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