help me see it

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Maryam
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help me see it

Postby Maryam » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:08 pm

hi
i have just joined the forum today and wish for you to guide me to actually see that there is no self

looking forward to hearing you

thanks

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vinceschubert
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Re: help me see it

Postby vinceschubert » Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:34 pm

Ok, give me a rant on what you expect.
Shall i call you Mary ?
Can you post every day ? Give 100% honesty ?
Remember, we are not teachers here. No knowledge is being passed to you. We are positioning you to discover, to recognise something that has been in your face all of your life.

love
vince

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Maryam
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Re: help me see it

Postby Maryam » Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:57 pm

Thanks for your quick response.
i expect nothing.
Mary is ok, yes.

Yes i can post everyday and always give honesty.

Thanks again

Maryam

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vinceschubert
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Re: help me see it

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:34 am

i expect nothing.
Well, this can't be true or you wouldn't be here. Investigate and tell of any ideas that have occurred about what might transpire here.
Tell also about what you believe about awakening, liberation or enlightenment (or whatever label you choose)

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Maryam
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Re: help me see it

Postby Maryam » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:28 am

i wish to rid myself of emotions. I have always had a very assertive personality which i can see now is affecting my relationship with my partner. But my self, my independence does not want to give this up. I sense this attachment to my self, an attachment to these attributes of my self which i am finding difficult to rid off.

All those terms that you stated immediately says one thing to me, and that is to have no more of these voices in my head that have been created from past emotions and occurrences in life.

i dont know what else to say

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vinceschubert
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Re: help me see it

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:46 pm

All those terms that you stated immediately says one thing to me, and that is to have no more of these voices in my head that have been created from past emotions and occurrences in life.
"These voices in your head.." Presumably you hear thoughts ? or thoughts seem to address you ? will you describe this process.
They have been created by previous experiences (emotions and happenings), so they are conditioned in you ? is that right ?
i wish to rid myself of emotions.
You surely don't want to become like a robot, do you ? i imagine that what you really mean is that you want to not experience certain emotions ? is this right ?
I have always had a very assertive personality
By this you mean that you have behaved assertively. Presumably because of past experiences ? is this right ?
But my self, my independence does not want to give this up.
Who is this self, this independence, that does not want to give it up ? Where is it ? What is it made of ? Can you locate it ?
I sense this attachment to my self,
Please describe this attachment. How do you experience it ? How do you know it exists ?

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Maryam
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Re: help me see it

Postby Maryam » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:13 pm

1. thoughts appear without my control. emotions are the past, so yes they have erupted from past experiences. And a conditioning of these has occurred.
2.no, i wish to be rid of emotions. this is not to say that i will not be able to love or care for people.
3.i believe my assertiveness is my self picking up behaviour from particular characters around me and environments which i am in that expect some assertiveness. yet i sense this is effecting my lover, which all i wish to show is love and not allow my self to disrupt our love. does that make sense?
4.i cant locate this self. i cant see it when i close my eyes. i just see nothing. so does this mean that this independence is an illusion my mind has created for me on this body?
5.i sense this attachment when i am confronted with love. this attachment to a want in me to be free, to indulge in its habits such as smoking etc.
how do i know it exists? i don't, but its so misleading that it makes me it exists. i know this is an illusion. i dont exist, i just havent seen it.

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vinceschubert
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Re: help me see it

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:54 pm

i know this is an illusion. i dont exist, i just havent seen it.
Yes you have Maryam, you just don't recognise it as reality. When you say that you "know it is an illusion" you give 'lip service' to it, but something in you (thoughts) discounts it.
i believe my assertiveness is my self picking up behaviour from particular characters around me and environments which i am in that expect some assertiveness.
You start with "i believe", so you know that this is a story in your head, don't you? The expectations that you put upon yourself are from your ideas about others and the environment. They may or may not be true, but you behave 'as if' they are.
Can you see how mind creates stories about other people ?, about how you need to be ?
i cant locate this self. i cant see it when i close my eyes. i just see nothing. so does this mean that this independence is an illusion my mind has created for me on this body?
Absolutely! Tell me how this feels ?
i sense this attachment when i am confronted with love.
How do you sense it ? Are there physical sensations, emotions, thoughts ?

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Maryam
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Re: help me see it

Postby Maryam » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:59 pm

1.can you please elaborate on you first point in the last reply?
("Yes you have Maryam, you just don't recognise it as reality. When you say that you "know it is an illusion" you give 'lip service' to it, but something in you (thoughts) discounts it.")
2.yes you are right, i can clearly see how mind can create stories, thus creates expectations for my self which funnily does not exist so i don't have to act in any particular manner because there is no me.
3.admitting that i cant locate this self makes me feel empty. it makes me feel vast, vast like nothingness. endless nothingness.
4.this sense i feel in my body, like this frustration erupts which my self gets disturbed. its a mix of physical sensation especially heaviness in my chest and stomach and thoughts occur latching on to ideas of independence.

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vinceschubert
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Re: help me see it

Postby vinceschubert » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:49 pm

Maryam, if you select the text in my post and click the quote button, this happens.
1.can you please elaborate on you first point in the last reply?
What i mean is that the flavour of your words tell me that you have glimpsed THIS, but the content of your words deny it. Probably some mental process saying "Oh, this can't be it" happens and it is dismissed. It all happens so quickly that is almost seems to not happen. Investigate this.
so i don't have to act in any particular manner because there is no me.
This is a little vague for me. Can you elaborate please.
admitting that i cant locate this self makes me feel empty. it makes me feel vast, vast like nothingness. endless nothingness.
What is your emotional response to this feeling ?
...and thoughts occur latching on to ideas of independence.
Does this present as rebellion ?

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Maryam
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Re: help me see it

Postby Maryam » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:58 pm

1. You are right on this point. My mind seems to constantly question when I know what the truth is. Yet it brings ups questions when i sense i have reached some answers.
2.My second quote does not make sense now that i read it again. I think im making my self confused Vince. Now i also feel that I have lost the purpose of being here due to our posts, its made me more confused and i am running out of words to describe things to you.
3.well my emotional self will always see the bad in that, because its an emotion. My immediate emotional reaction to that was sad, sad to think that i am here living every day when i am actually nothing, i have no substance. Yet i carry on everyday because i have to?!
4.yes exactly. its rebellion. Its selfish, it wants its way. This has always been a matter i face when i am in a relationship. Because a relationship expects a different lifestyle and it is stubborn to change.

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Maryam
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Re: help me see it

Postby Maryam » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:18 pm

these are some words i wished to share with you in regards to this process:
i surrender to this discussion, to these thoughts, to my self
i know nothing
i am still

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vinceschubert
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Re: help me see it

Postby vinceschubert » Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:29 am

My mind seems to constantly question when I know what the truth is. Yet it brings ups questions when i sense i have reached some answers.
And that's Ok. Mind does this (and will probably continue to do this in a diminishing way post gate) It's the identification with this that will break. (is breaking)
i am running out of words to describe things to you.
Does that mean that you are also running out of thoughts ?
my emotional self will always see the bad in that, because its an emotion.
The emotional self is as much a story as any other self. The emotion, on the other hand is the bodily response to thought, the physical aspect of thought. They are mostly conditioned responses, just as most thoughts are.
when i am actually nothing
Not true. What you are is beyond words and thought, part of the great mystery. Even the I is not nothing. It is a story.
Yet i carry on everyday because i have to?!
Carrying on happens because it does. It can't not, because it IS. There is great freedom in this. Can you see this ?
This has always been a matter i face when i am in a relationship. Because a relationship expects a different lifestyle and it is stubborn to change.
Be(a)ware! This process can have great ramifications (or not) for relationships. The old way (pre-gate) to put it would be to say "Be true to yourself", the new way (post gate) would be to recognise that there is no interest in manipulating behaviour or attitude to please a partner.
i surrender to this discussion, to these thoughts, to my self
i know nothing
i am still
ahh, beautiful.
i take it, that by surrender you mean the welcome acceptance...

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Maryam
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Re: help me see it

Postby Maryam » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:52 pm

2. yes i am also running out of thoughts.
4. what do you mean that 'even the I is not nothing. it is a story?
are you saying that every I has had experience and so its what makes an I?
5. yes Vince, i can see the freedom in this yet not right now. These heaps of random emotions have been appearing quite a lot recently. bringing me on a serious low whenever it arrives and makes it hard to face and drop.

yes exactly i welcome the acceptance. i have no more words

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vinceschubert
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Re: help me see it

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:34 pm

yes i am also running out of thoughts.
How do you feel about this ?
what do you mean that 'even the I is not nothing. it is a story?
are you saying that every I has had experience and so its what makes an I?
The organism 'does' the experiencing. Mind then claims ownership and uses it to embellish the story. It is an incredibly complex and detailed story that has been built up over a lifetime of opinions and judgements and interpretations from every experiencing.
These heaps of random emotions have been appearing quite a lot recently. bringing me on a serious low whenever it arrives and makes it hard to face and drop.
As unpleasant as they are, welcome them. They are an attempt to protect you from imagined danger. Welcome them and ask each one what it is trying to protect you from. (then listen to the first thought that arises)
Hang in there Maryam, you are on the slide to freedom.

love


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