Invitation for You to see through you.

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Cubic77
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Re: Invitation for You to see through you.

Postby Cubic77 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:51 pm

Do I exist...? Hmm as I go trough the day I still identify with that collection of thoughts and feeling of the body. Especially when things get busy and I dont take the time to breathe and close my eyes to look. Like right now I find it really hard to just observe my thoughts without judgement the way i did the other day. I need to get back to that feeling. I mean I know that I do not exist. I know now that the self that I thought i was is just my mind playing games. I know because I have seen it but at the moment I just dont feel it. the mind is a fantastisk tool and it is so quick to throw up new tricks to keep you wrapped up in the illusion. I think I just need to take a little time and look a little deeper again. I know now that the differnece between searching for the ansver and actually seeing and the difference is so subtle yet so difficult to recreate (or that is at least what my mind wants me to think)

Right after I had the first real glimpse the other day I tried to stay with it and really focus in on that peacefull feeling where all thoughts stopped. I had this amazing experinece of feeling like my body expanded to 100 times its size and inside was wast emness like the outer space. It was like I was floating in space or that I was space yet I was somehow still inside my body. I could sort of feel the my body as a thin thin skin way out in the perimiter sorrounding this vast space like I had been pumped up like an air balloon. It was a wonderful feeling.

Is it supposed to be snap of the fingers kind of awakening or is it somehting you grow into through continously testing the truth. Through persistant practice?

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longgone1
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Re: Invitation for You to see through you.

Postby longgone1 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:31 pm

Hi Cubic .. nice to see you back .. let's tread nice and easy here .. you're very close .. I want you to look at what is permanent and what is not ..
Maybe there is a table in front of you ? .. You see it .. touch it .. it's solid .. real .. Now close your eyes imagine a lovely meal on the table .. see all it's details .. really get ready to eat .. Now open your eyes .. Oops! It's gone ! Where is it ? .. The table's still there .. no meal .. Why ?
It's composed of thought of course ..
Behind both the solid table and the imaginary meal .. is something real .. constant .. there with you when you go to sleep .. there when you wake up ..
The Observer .. the real you ..
Now .. remembering that the illusory you is made up of thought .. look again .. at thought and watch how it arises and disappears ..
Looking from that place of the Observer .. are you real ?

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longgone1
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Re: Invitation for You to see through you.

Postby longgone1 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:18 pm

Just to help you on this process .. notice how experience comes first and thought after ..
Thought labels experience .. but it is very quick .. automatic .. (like your firewall .. popping up alarms to stop reality being seen ) ..
Getting into the Observer (sometimes called the Witness) really helps to see the illusory nature of all that thought labelling ..
Keep trying this till it becomes obvious and familiar ..
Then you can ask yourself ..
Do I exist ?

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longgone1
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Re: Invitation for You to see through you.

Postby longgone1 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:39 pm

I see from your previous comments that you have made great progress and that you have seen the reality of no self .. I am trying to give you practices and pointers back to that place because yes .. in answer to your question it is about persistance .. 'till you get there ..
Passing through the gate once it has happened isn't reversable but sometimes people don't even notice it til guided to look back from the other side .. we will recognise when it has happened to you .. and you will know it too ..
I think you're doing great and like your reports of your experiences .. thank you ..
If you try following the guidelines you can keep doing this even in situations where you might not have thought it possible before .. (at work .. with the kids etc ) .. You start off in quiet times .. then self-observation or witnessing can be a great tool for Self knowledge or liberation from the false self ..
Go for it ! : ) ..

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longgone1
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Re: Invitation for You to see through you.

Postby longgone1 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:18 pm

In relation to timing .. I don't even know what time zone you are in .. but it has occurred to me that rather than write in here when you are all revved up to engage & then not get a response .. you could msg me on FB http://www.facebook.com/#!/Sufibridge
or drop me an e.mail at longgone1@hotmail.co.uk
to get my attention ..

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Cubic77
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Re: Invitation for You to see through you.

Postby Cubic77 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:33 pm

im still here. I think my ego is fighting me on this. Fighting to stay in control. Ive been in a really shitty mood today and with a short fuse. In that state of mind I find it hard to get back to awareness. It feels difficult again and like I dont know how to look:-( I do try to stop my self in these thoughts and try to trace them but im back to intellectualise them. I can identify all the ourside influences, memories, habitual things etc. that is causing the thoughts to occour but I still feel like it is apart of me. I can keep that distance to it i could the other day. Its like im being sucked in again.

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longgone1
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Re: Invitation for You to see through you.

Postby longgone1 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:46 pm

O.K. I see where you're at .. but we both know it's only for the moment .. these things pass and sometimes it's best not to fight them ..
I guess from earlier remarks that you may have a bit of pressure from work and 10 month old so .. do you get any free or relaxation time this weekend .. ? If so use some of that .. When emotions come up it's not always the best time to practice at the start .. later it becomes easier ..
The main tool is observation .. The biggest advantage you have is knowing that you have a false self .. this means that you have already observed it .. The main aim for now is to get into that observing position don't fight anything .. just watch .. Watch all this shit come up and it loosens it's hold .. It gives you the advantage and you learn quite quickly that You have much more to do with the observer and less to do with the observed .. You will learn how to trust this position .. It's a fresh angle and the greatest ally .. You are like those wise old oriental guys that just watch the opponent and when he moves they use his own force and energy to trip him up .. you'll soon be watching that crap rushing towards you to envelop you and just by recognising its hollow illusion you'll find it flew right past and vanished into thin air .. Pouf! Smoke! ..
But it won't stop .. it'll just keep coming .. so .. back again to observe .. watch it well up and then try to convince you and .. see how it dissolves under your gaze ..
Confidence grows with practice and you'll soon be back in that beautiful place you described before ..
Don't try to trace thoughts or anything else .. don't analyse or try to be clever .. just calmly watch ..
Over and over .. then when it starts to come naturally you'll realise you are sitting where you want to be already & ...
From there you can again ask .. about the reality of that troublesome one .. does he exist ?
Take your time no rush .. just use that wisdom you are learning ..
Trust and look .. Trust and look ..
Speak to you soon .. :)

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Cubic77
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Invitation for You to see through you.

Postby Cubic77 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:35 pm

I have been trying to trust and look over the past days and I'm not really sure if I find it easy or very difficult. One one hand I feel not at all different from before and I still feel like there is a me behind all of this. On the other hand it is like my mind has been much more quiet. The constant chatter seems to have diminished. The thoughts or ego or what ever label you want to put on it still shows up from time to time but i able to make it go away again for the most time. So I have been walking around not really thinking which has been a new experience for me:-) but it sort of just leaves me feeling empty. I don't know but I was expecting more? Not sure what but some sort connection to the world or heightened awareness of the moment or smaller things in life. I just feel like my self bit with less thoughts going on in my mind.

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longgone1
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Re: Invitation for You to see through you.

Postby longgone1 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:22 am

I have been trying to trust and look over the past days and I'm not really sure if I find it easy or very difficult. One one hand I feel not at all different from before and I still feel like there is a me behind all of this. On the other hand it is like my mind has been much more quiet. The constant chatter seems to have diminished. The thoughts or ego or what ever label you want to put on it still shows up from time to time but i able to make it go away again for the most time. So I have been walking around not really thinking which has been a new experience for me:-) but it sort of just leaves me feeling empty. I don't know but I was expecting more? Not sure what but some sort connection to the world or heightened awareness of the moment or smaller things in life. I just feel like my self bit with less thoughts going on in my mind.

That’s so cool Cubic77 .. exactly how it should be .. The chatter that has diminished is all the stuff about “working it out” .. just the ego mind fooling you that non-dual awareness can be found through dualistic thinking .. it is part of it’s trick to fool you that you are in control .. As you sit in your real self in trust you are becoming one with that which really controls everything .. that which in fact is everything .. (including you) naturally arising .. The sign of this is the heightened awareness that you speak of and naturally coming into the present moment.
I am so pleased for you. All that happens here is a way to make that permanent .. don’t worry about the feeling of emptiness .. that is just the space created where the false self and all its nonsense used to be .. (it will soon be filled with all sorts of goodies and so much pleasure when you become one with that-which-is) ..
The way that is used here to make this happen is simply asking yourself if what you mistakenly took to be you really exists.
Speaking from that place of Trust .. does that ego-mind-you really exist ?

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Cubic77
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Re: Invitation for You to see through you.

Postby Cubic77 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:56 am

I feel like I am this body, mind and feelings. A mix of history, habits, emotions and dreams. On the other hand i see that many of the things I consider to be me happen without a me involved. The body for example seems to run many of its complex systems without "me" involved. Actually i think it is better off without "me" involved. What I normally identify most with is my mind i guess or the thoughts going on in my mind but when I look at those thoughts closely i also find that most of the time they happen without a "me" behind them. Thoughts arise often due to memories or outside influences and they can disappear just as fast. thought seems to happen without a me instigating them. There is a vision - there is a thought. There is a touch - there is a thought. There is a feeling - there is a thought. There is a memory - there is a thought. So it it is like the mind reacts to everything that happens with a thought like it is labeling every little experience. Some of it happens consciously and most of it unconscionably. So I cannot truly say that I am those thoughts. But there is also thoughts about thoughts. The thinking of self is also a thought process. The self that I think I am am is conjured up by the mind so it is in other words just thoughts. So I can not be what I think myself to be if the thoughts happen without any influence by me. Even the thought about my self that in the moment feel like conscious creative thinking are just the mind analysing and reacting to old memory and habitual patterns. There is actually nothing truly creative happening and it is all just an illusion made up by the mind. The mind is so clever that it has convinced itself that it is more than just a machine or a computer. It has convinced it self that it is more than just a tool to keep the body functioning and it has created such a vail or net of conspiracies and illusions that it is difficult to she through that to who I really am.

Thought and thinking is still happening and the mind is a great tool that can be used in marvelous ways (like to write this) but there is no need to be controlled by thought or to identify with thought. Thought come and go and only the ones that get attention will linger on. The thoughts that i resist are the ones that are the hardest to let go off but all thought will eventually disappear and the better I get at just letting them be without resistance, the faster they will disappear and leave just peace. Peace of mind.

So if I am not thought then who am I. Am I feelings and emotions. Well some feelings and emotions are definitely just reactions to outer circumstances or to thought conjured up by the mind. A vision can trigger a feeling or an emotion for example and so can any other experience by any of the senses. But there is no me that need involvement in any of that. It happens perfectly fine without anyone controlling it. So feeling can be a way of communication from my subconscious mind and it uses feeling to run my body. But I also seem to have feelings sometimes that resonate with something deeper within me. Something I cant really define or place. I cannot point to it and define where it is at. It is like there is a core of me that is not about the psychical body or the thoughts of the mind. I feel connected to it at times and more and more these days when it get the chance to quiet my mind but it still seems elusive. Like a child trying to grab smoke. I can see it is there. I can sense it but i cannot get a hold of it and the harder I try the more it disappears.
I think I need to get in touch with my feelings and emotions better and I need to have more quiet time without the mind constantly interrupting. It seems a contradiction that what i right now still consider to be my self, is actually my minds illusion of self and that illusion of self is trying to see that it is not actually real. I think I can say for sure that I can not think my way to an answer. I understand now that i can not rationalise it though logic. It has to come through experiencing it and the experience will most like come through awareness and feeling. But the funny thing is that what I am trying to find (if it is right) is already me. It is just cloaked behind a web of thoughts. So actually there is nothing to find as I already am that and always have been. So in theory the "i" that I really am should come charging through the moment that I can break the illusion that my mind has made up. The moment that I lift the fog then my real self will be there where it has always been. The path to that must be to practice "no mind". To practice letting the thoughts go and experience the now. To experience what is true in this moment and not be so focused on the minds thought of past and future. Past is no longer reality and future is just imagination so why be so caught up in it. The only thing real, is what is happening right now so i might as well bring the focus here and accept what is. I have to once again get familiar with the feeling and the language of the soul instead of being caught up in the language of the mind. Right now I understand this to be true, and I have seen this to be true in glimpses but it also feels like it is a journey that takes some practice. It is like learning a new language but not an entirely new language. More like a language I knew as a small child but have forgotten over the years. It is all already there. It just needs to be remembered...

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longgone1
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Re: Invitation for You to see through you.

Postby longgone1 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:55 am

Re: Invitation for You to see through you.
by Cubic77 » November 4th, 2011, 3:56 am

I feel like I am this body, mind and feelings. A mix of history, habits, emotions and dreams. On the other hand i see that many of the things I consider to be me happen without a me involved. The body for example seems to run many of its complex systems without "me" involved. Actually i think it is better off without "me" involved. What I normally identify most with is my mind i guess or the thoughts going on in my mind but when I look at those thoughts closely i also find that most of the time they happen without a "me" behind them. Thoughts arise often due to memories or outside influences and they can disappear just as fast. thought seems to happen without a me instigating them. There is a vision - there is a thought. There is a touch - there is a thought. There is a feeling - there is a thought. There is a memory - there is a thought. So it it is like the mind reacts to everything that happens with a thought like it is labeling every little experience. Some of it happens consciously and most of it unconscionably. So I cannot truly say that I am those thoughts. But there is also thoughts about thoughts. The thinking of self is also a thought process. The self that I think I am am is conjured up by the mind so it is in other words just thoughts. So I can not be what I think myself to be if the thoughts happen without any influence by me. Even the thought about my self that in the moment feel like conscious creative thinking are just the mind analysing and reacting to old memory and habitual patterns. There is actually nothing truly creative happening and it is all just an illusion made up by the mind. The mind is so clever that it has convinced itself that it is more than just a machine or a computer. It has convinced it self that it is more than just a tool to keep the body functioning and it has created such a vail or net of conspiracies and illusions that it is difficult to she through that to who I really am.

Thought and thinking is still happening and the mind is a great tool that can be used in marvelous ways (like to write this) but there is no need to be controlled by thought or to identify with thought. Thought come and go and only the ones that get attention will linger on. The thoughts that i resist are the ones that are the hardest to let go off but all thought will eventually disappear and the better I get at just letting them be without resistance, the faster they will disappear and leave just peace. Peace of mind.

So if I am not thought then who am I. Am I feelings and emotions. Well some feelings and emotions are definitely just reactions to outer circumstances or to thought conjured up by the mind. A vision can trigger a feeling or an emotion for example and so can any other experience by any of the senses. But there is no me that need involvement in any of that. It happens perfectly fine without anyone controlling it. So feeling can be a way of communication from my subconscious mind and it uses feeling to run my body. But I also seem to have feelings sometimes that resonate with something deeper within me. Something I cant really define or place. I cannot point to it and define where it is at. It is like there is a core of me that is not about the psychical body or the thoughts of the mind. I feel connected to it at times and more and more these days when it get the chance to quiet my mind but it still seems elusive. Like a child trying to grab smoke. I can see it is there. I can sense it but i cannot get a hold of it and the harder I try the more it disappears.
I think I need to get in touch with my feelings and emotions better and I need to have more quiet time without the mind constantly interrupting. It seems a contradiction that what i right now still consider to be my self, is actually my minds illusion of self and that illusion of self is trying to see that it is not actually real. I think I can say for sure that I can not think my way to an answer. I understand now that i can not rationalise it though logic. It has to come through experiencing it and the experience will most like come through awareness and feeling. But the funny thing is that what I am trying to find (if it is right) is already me. It is just cloaked behind a web of thoughts. So actually there is nothing to find as I already am that and always have been. So in theory the "i" that I really am should come charging through the moment that I can break the illusion that my mind has made up. The moment that I lift the fog then my real self will be there where it has always been. The path to that must be to practice "no mind". To practice letting the thoughts go and experience the now. To experience what is true in this moment and not be so focused on the minds thought of past and future. Past is no longer reality and future is just imagination so why be so caught up in it. The only thing real, is what is happening right now so i might as well bring the focus here and accept what is. I have to once again get familiar with the feeling and the language of the soul instead of being caught up in the language of the mind. Right now I understand this to be true, and I have seen this to be true in glimpses but it also feels like it is a journey that takes some practice. It is like learning a new language but not an entirely new language. More like a language I knew as a small child but have forgotten over the years. It is all already there. It just needs to be remembered...
Hey ! Cubic77 .. you are right there at the gate ! I see you have really done your homework. Fantastic. It's just one step now & you're through.
All you have to do now is really see that you will never find the one who is looking because it is You ... You cannot observe You because then it would be an object and You would be observing it .. That observing is the living reality .. it is consciousness and what You are .. ultimately what we all are and even everything is but that isn't seen until you take this last step ..drop the last veil ..
This is the last remnant of the false I hanging on but you nearly have it beat ..
Can you tell me .. now .. pretty much a one word answer .. That you that you thought you were .. does it exist ?
Is there an autonomous individual you ?
Does that you exist ?
No need to get in touch with feelings or practice anything .. no need to expect anything .. great changes or unusual experiences .. just take this one step in total Trust ..
As a separate individual .. do you exist ?

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Cubic77
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Re: Invitation for You to see through you.

Postby Cubic77 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:56 am

it still feels like I exist. on the other hand i do see that what i believe to be my self is an illusion of sorts and that helps to not get caught up in my minds chatter but am lacking that feeling of connection to something bigger than "me".

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longgone1
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Re: Invitation for You to see through you.

Postby longgone1 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:22 pm

Hi Cubic77. Sorry for the slight delay .. I was away and busy at the weekend .. I see what is going on and it is familiar ground ..
it still feels like I exist. on the other hand i do see that what i believe to be my self is an illusion of sorts and that helps to not get caught up in my minds chatter but am lacking that feeling of connection to something bigger than "me".
At this point it may be helpful to talk about two things .. First of all to try to alleviate the feeling of not being connected to "something bigger than me" .. One has to realise that the thing which is bigger than you is You .. the connection is that experience of sitting in awareness. You as the small self cannot be connected to anything because precisely the trying to connect to something is what prevents the connection because what is desired has been turned into an object with you as the subject .. this is what keeps you stuck in duality and the confines of that reality .. Actually the only way to connect to something bigger is to realise that that something bigger is the real You .. in the realisation that, the awareness where you are looking from is what you are, and what you desire, the small self disappears and you become that which you desire .. (total connection).
I pick up that you may be a believer in God .. or that you may have a lot of the tradition of God and the soul in your background .. wether this is true or not there is no real problem here .. except that it can sound very grandiose to say that "I am God." .. it helps to realise that I am nothing .. He is everything .. or that there is nothing but God .. some people may call God Consciousness or Being .. Another way of saying this may be that one is accessing God through finding one's own soul which turns out to be none other than Him. Precisely the connection that you long for (and we all long for) is achived by the dropping of the false or egoic self .. and the way to do this is becoming aware that one is aware ..
In this context I have written out the beginning of a chapter of a book from talks of Francis Lucille .. where this whole subject is laid out clearly and with no compunction about using the word God.
I think it is helpful at this stage to realise what we are doing here and to understand that the connection comes in this process and that one is moving from stage one which may be called ignorance .. to stage two which may be called liberation from the false self or ego .. That is what normally is achieved in this process .. it is where most of the guides in this group are. After this process and finding stability in stage two there may come stage three .. but for now we are involved in the first step.
Please read the following carefully and you may find it helpful to re-read it several times to really understand what is being laid out .. It may also help you to orientate yourself to where you are in the process .. and then we can return to try to finish off this stage and give you access to a support group composed of other people in a similar position in which one can compare notes and exchange experiences and ideas.

Love in Search of Itself.

What are the ways of resting in awareness ?

To be knowingly invited by silence. To think about silence, which means to be invited by the thought or question about silence, awareness, or God. To see everything as God. To feel God’s presence inside, to think of God, or to percieve everything outside as being God. These are the ways of resting in awareness.

By God, do you mean awareness, consciousness ?

Yes. Everything you feel is God. Everything you think is God. Everything you percieve is God.

Do you mean just being aware of what is ?

It depends what you mean by being aware. We are aware of objects, that is, thoughts, feelings, and perceptions, but not all of us are aware of being aware. We have to be aware of being aware, of being awareness. Normally when we are aware of objects, we are completely identified with the object. In India they call this Savikalpa samadhi, absorption in the object.
In such a moment, it seems that our entire experience comprises whatever object is present, be it a thought, feeling,or perception. At some point, we understand that in order to have this experience, something must be present to experience it, to register it, something that is conscious, aware, knowing. We formulate this by saying that our experience comprises that which is conscious and an object. Initially, the object part of the experience seems to be by far the largest part of the experience, and that which is conscious or aware of it, whatever that is, seems small, almost insignificant, but nevertheless we know that it is there. However as we become more interested in what this conscious presence is, the more significant and tangible it becomes and, by comparison, the more th object diminishes in importance and solidity.
At some point, we realize that it is in fact this conscious presence that is the most stable and lasting element of our experience and that the object itself is, by comparison, fleeting and insubstantial. This process culminates temporarily when we become completely absorbed in this presence. Awareness is aware of itself without an object. This is called Nirvikalpa Samadhi, samahadi without objects, absorption in the Self without objects.
When objects reappear, we have the choice of identifying with them again or remaining aware of awareness in the presence of objects. In this case, the objects themselves are experienced as none other than awareness or God itself, and this is called Sahaja Samadhi, the natural state.
These are the three modalities of being aware. The first is ignorance, the second is knowledge of Self in the absence of objects, and the third is knowledge of Self in the presence or absence of objects. The second stage is already a stage of Self- realization, but it doesn’t bring about complete happiness because in the presence of objects there might still be some nostalgia for the objectless state. There might still be desire to go back to pure awareness without an object. At this stage there can be a hidden refusal of the present moment, the current situation, so happiness is not established. It is only when we see everything as God that there is stability.


Looking forward to hearing from you after this .. I hope it make sense and we can move forward again and go deeper ... : )

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longgone1
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Re: Invitation for You to see through you.

Postby longgone1 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:54 pm

Hello Cubic .. still here if you wish to continue ..

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Cubic77
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Invitation for You to see through you.

Postby Cubic77 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:06 pm

I'm still here and I've opened the page a few times but not knowing what to write. I'm feeling stuck and back in my old self. Don't know where to go from here. There is most definitely still a strong sense of self. Somebody moved the gate:-)


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