if there is no me?????????

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Ilona
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby Ilona » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:01 pm

there is a thought 'me'. have a look closer. it's just a thought. and there is no being behind it.
'me' is a bundle of thoughts about 'me', but the word is not pointing to anything real.

it's a fiction.
that is why there is no evidence.

if i tell you to look for a unicorn in your room, do you need to search for it for years before you can say, nope, there is no unicorn, it is not real.. same with 'me'. it can not be found for exactly the same reason. it does not exist.

what comes up at this point? look at thougt- feeling connection. is there an entity 'me' behind this process?

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whatsit
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby whatsit » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:05 am

there is a thought 'me'. have a look closer. it's just a thought. and there is no being behind it.
'me' is a bundle of thoughts about 'me', but the word is not pointing to anything real.

it's a fiction.
that is why there is no evidence.

if i tell you to look for a unicorn in your room, do you need to search for it for years before you can say, nope, there is no unicorn, it is not real.. same with 'me'. it can not be found for exactly the same reason. it does not exist.

what comes up at this point? look at thougt- feeling connection. is there an entity 'me' behind this process?
what you say about the unicorn is understood and seen to be true. what you say about the me is just understood. I have
been checking, while working, driving and walking, to see if me is required. I really have no sensible reason to believe in this I/ME but Im not seeing this. Its frustrating. It seems so obvious Im thinking I must be thick. I am sure the penny will drop.

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James Anderson
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby James Anderson » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:11 am

Hi whatsit.
You've already seen that thoughts don't control movement, although thoughts of movement sometimes arise at the same time as movement right?
You've also seen that there's no conscious thinker of thoughts. Just thoughts arising from the subconscious.
Now try this. Look for the thing that's aware of thoughts arising. Is there a separate awareness which is aware of thoughts arising, or are there just thoughts, and thoughts about thoughts?

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James Anderson
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby James Anderson » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:18 am

After looking to see if there's anything separate from thoughts that's aware of thoughts, try the same with the five senses.
Can you find anything that's aware of sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, and thought, or is there just the seen, heard, smelled, tasted, touch sensation and thought?
Can anything other than those six experiences be found?

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Ilona
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby Ilona » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:30 pm

whatsit, yes the penny will drop, in fact it is dropping already. you are here. with every question answered you are coming closer to seeing that there is no you to see, just seeing happening. all by itself.

does seeing need a seer for seeing to happen?
does breathing need a breather for breathing to happen?

what comes up here?

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whatsit
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby whatsit » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:57 pm

After looking to see if there's anything separate from thoughts that's aware of thoughts, try the same with the five senses.
Can you find anything that's aware of sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, and thought, or is there just the seen, heard, smelled, tasted, touch sensation and thought?
Can anything other than those six experiences be found?
Hi James, today in work I was thinking about this post. I was thinking about seeing and hearing, maybe cos I find these easier to relate too. I was scanning hundreds of documents, sort of in a daze just going with the rhythm of the paper being grabbed into the machine and being thrown out. Thinking stopped, dunno how long. Then it all seemed clear for a
short period of time. It wasn't the usual is there a me/I or not. It was just " hearing and seeing is processed by the brain" nothing else. For that period of time I didn't feel any need to question that thats all there is. I got distracted from this without giving it too much importance. I realised later what had happened, I think I could have even missed this easy enough because it was something very simple. does this seeing happen gradually or, all of a sudden
you just know?

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whatsit
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby whatsit » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:08 pm

whatsit, yes the penny will drop, in fact it is dropping already. you are here. with every question answered you are coming closer to seeing that there is no you to see, just seeing happening. all by itself.

does seeing need a seer for seeing to happen?
does breathing need a breather for breathing to happen?

what comes up here?
seeing requires eyes and a brain to interpret it.
It is easy to think a me is breathing because I feel it takes effort. Its like I know there is no me but theres some block to knowing it.

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James Anderson
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby James Anderson » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:17 pm

Hi Whatsit.
You'll start off by getting little glimpses, as you've already had it seems, where you are just experience.
Yes there may be a body etc, but that isn't you. When you die the body still exists doesn't it?
You are literally the experience part. When that goes there's nothing.
The more you look for a separate thinker and experiencer, the more you'll establish that there isn't one, and the more often and longer you'll abide as pure experience.
The ultimate goal is for that to be permanent.

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whatsit
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby whatsit » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:48 am

Hi Whatsit.
You'll start off by getting little glimpses, as you've already had it seems, where you are just experience.
Yes there may be a body etc, but that isn't you. When you die the body still exists doesn't it?
You are literally the experience part. When that goes there's nothing.
The more you look for a separate thinker and experiencer, the more you'll establish that there isn't one, and the more often and longer you'll abide as pure experience.
The ultimate goal is for that to be permanent.
James, I think the block to me and maybe others seeing this, is just words. to be specific these words "there is no me". I now understand this block. My brain stores my memories and stories. My thoughts. My body could not function without this brain. Since a young age we have a sense of me. It is our conditioning. It is assumed without any sensible reasoning. This brain(or maybe just thoughts) does not accept that there is no me.Really I am only defending a belief that my brain with its memories, stories and thoughts is ME. When I am defending me/I, I am not defending a seperate me/I. I may have thought I was. I am defending a belief that me exists because I never questioned what me/I actually is. So what am I left with. There is a brain. There is memories and stories and thoughts. There is no me besides this. Hopefully now that I have made sense out of this I will actually see this like others have. It may be taking me longer than most and I know I have to keep looking to reality but I do feel the struggle and resistance is over. I hope this is as understandable to you as it is in my head.

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James Anderson
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby James Anderson » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:55 pm

To be honest, i'm not a massive fan of the no self approach, simply because self is just a label, and points at different things for different people, so you spend half the time establishing what is ment by self.
What we can say though is that there's no permanent self, no separate self, no conscious controlling self, and no experiencer separate from experience.
This one guy took ages to crack and made every arguement possible. Reading it may help. http://ruthlesstruth.com/arena/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1029

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James Anderson
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby James Anderson » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:18 pm

How's it going? Are you still looking? Any progress? Any questions?

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whatsit
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby whatsit » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:30 am

How's it going? Are you still looking? Any progress? Any questions?
Hi James, to be honest I have just moved house so was busy and had no internet access for a couple of weeks. I cannot say I have seen this yet but my life has changed. My life is less stressful and lighter. I still have the same problems and life situation but I dont react to these situations the way I used to. I feel this reality that I am Just a body with a brain will click and be seen soon and I dont worry about when. Lately I just seem to solve my problems easier and life just seems easier. I also noticed I have become more honest lately when dealing with other people at home and in work. I think the reason for this is this process of looking at what I am. I am sure I will be back with questions if this seeing does not happen. Thanks.

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James Anderson
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby James Anderson » Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:48 am

I'm happy that your life has become better. I'll be here if you need help with anything. All the best.


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