if there is no me?????????

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whatsit
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if there is no me?????????

Postby whatsit » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:44 pm

Iv read loads of posts here about "no me". Couldn't dissagree with most of them. I only took "me" for granted because I never questioned it untill recently reading Eckhart Tolle. I would like to ask, if there is "no me" does this mean I dont really like the music I am listening to? Do I not love my children? I have tried out some of the questions posed here, where is this "I" and do we need it to carry out bodily functions. I cant find me but does this prove that there is no me or a perceiver inside me??????? I would Definitely like to know the truth.

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Ilona
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby Ilona » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:33 pm

I can't tell you answers to your questions, if you are here, have a look for yourself. nobody can tell you what truth is. it's the direct experiance of it that counts. so what do you think, is there a you as a separate being?

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whatsit
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby whatsit » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:48 pm

well if there is a me controlling everything I cant find it. I know this is not about believing its about seeing. There is no proof of a me, I believe there is no me. My thoughts are random or a response to stimulus, from other thoughts or external like TV, chatting to mates. The smell of fresh cut grass makes me think thoughts of when I was a child. Deep down I feel there is no controller but I am not seeing it. The illusion is still here.

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if there is no me?????????

Postby Ilona » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:56 pm

If you close your eyes and imagine, there is a huge tiger sitting on a table in you room. Just imagine it as vivid as you can. Now look at a table, and look at a tiger in your room. Can you see that there is a table, but there is no tiger? So if I say look at self, you can be looking till you drop dead, but you are not gonna see it, because just as the tiger it's only imaginary.

What comes up here, feelings, thoughts, just write it all here.

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whatsit
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby whatsit » Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:49 pm

If you close your eyes and imagine, there is a huge tiger sitting on a table in you room. Just imagine it as vivid as you can. Now look at a table, and look at a tiger in your room. Can you see that there is a table, but there is no tiger? So if I say look at self, you can be looking till you drop dead, but you are not gonna see it, because just as the tiger it's only imaginary.

What comes up here, feelings, thoughts, just write it all here.
well for some reason I just couldn't picture a tiger so I changed to a big lion. I still knew there was going to be no lion on the table when I looked. Yes sure enough the table with a glass, pen and paper are here. To be honest I dont think I could be more relaxed unless I took drugs. I have no major emotion with the thought although when I change this "no me" thoughts to my children I do feel a bit sad. If there is really no me then I want to drop the illusion. I have no religous hang ups, just dont believ any of that stuff.

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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby Ilona » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:35 am

thank you for answer. great to see that you have no fear about it.

i invite you to do a little exercise- imagine, it is true, that there are no separate beings. write here how it would work, what human life would be like. just let your imagination paint a vivid picture.

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whatsit
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby whatsit » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:46 pm

thank you for answer. great to see that you have no fear about it.

i invite you to do a little exercise- imagine, it is true, that there are no separate beings. write here how it would work, what human life would be like. just let your imagination paint a vivid picture.
I think this would be huge. If there were no separate beings on a personal level there would be no me to identify with anger, jealousy, hatred. If this were always the case I would have grown up way differently. I would have seen things more clearly, seeing reality for what it really is without my minds interpretation. It would completely change the way we humans interact with each other. Many wars if not most would have been avoided. I think most humans live in a pretence i.e. being Irish, catholic, Tottenham hotspur supporter and willing to die for these same associations. not saying you cant be Irish and/or catholic or whatever. I was born Irish catholic just because where I was born. when I was 23 I decided that I have no proof of this god an this catholic slant on it all. Now I am not saying there is nor god just that I have no reasons for believing there is such a thing. I think the vast amount of people that are suffering depression would not be if we didn't have this me person inside. Little things like gossiping and looking down on others would not be as prevalent. herd mentality would probably not exist. Basically I think there would be a more honest and realistic mankind on this planet which would be way more advanced. Apollagies if this looks like a rant. I am just answering your post from the top of my head. I think we would live on a planet totally un-recogniasable from what it is today. I havn't really explored if there would be downsides to this but with more clarity and honesty in mankind I doubt that would be the case.

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if there is no me?????????

Postby Ilona » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:21 am

Thank you for answer.
This is the case already- there are no beings on personal level. But what happened to human is that programming got corrupted. The mind believes that there is a controller behind the I that is called 'me'. That is a misunderstanding, impractical conditioning, a lie.

So let's have a look and find our what is true and what is illusion.

What is 'me' from where you look at it? What does the word 'me' point to?

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whatsit
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby whatsit » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:10 pm

Thank you for answer.
This is the case already- there are no beings on personal level. But what happened to human is that programming got corrupted. The mind believes that there is a controller behind the I that is called 'me'. That is a misunderstanding, impractical conditioning, a lie.

So let's have a look and find our what is true and what is illusion.

What is 'me' from where you look at it? What does the word 'me' point to?
The word me points to this un-seeable controller that was always assumed to be controlling this body. Now that the question is asked I cant say where exactly it is, because I cant find it. If I were insist for arguement sake that there is a me in here pulling all the strings, a little ghost like puppet master, I would have to say its in my head. Now I think this is totally crazy when I see it written down. but I think there is something inside me that wants to defend this me untill it is tottally proved wrong. Maybe deep down I want this me as it is who I believed I was all my life.

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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby Ilona » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:51 pm

yes, there is no controler to be found. you can be looking for it all your life and still won't be able to prove it's existance. so turn your focus to the opposite side and face it.
tell me what comes up when you let this thought in:

there is no separate self at all, as in zero. there is no entity behind word 'me'.

notice the feelings, thoughts and write everything here.

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whatsit
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby whatsit » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:36 pm

yes, there is no controler to be found. you can be looking for it all your life and still won't be able to prove it's existance. so turn your focus to the opposite side and face it.
tell me what comes up when you let this thought in:

there is no separate self at all, as in zero. there is no entity behind word 'me'.

notice the feelings, thoughts and write everything here.
I'm wondering will life be emptier without me. Will I bother going to work, shaving or even tidying the house. I'v tried for the last couple of hours as if it was already the truth, "no me". Just this body living life. My two grown up children who live with me are also just human bodies. I don't feel any apprehension this, maybe I am not going deep enough. should I feel fear. Like I said earlier I feel a sort of sadness that there is no me in my children.
A lot of useless thoughts and worry could be ignored if there was no me. This would lead to freedom and more relaxation imo. I know I have wasted loads of time throughout my life worrying about stuff that never happened. Also over analyzing things after the event. I have put myself through so much preventable stress, so that would be a biggee without "me".

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if there is no me?????????

Postby Ilona » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:05 pm

Ok, let's get you to see this.

Tell me, where do thoughts come from and if there is a thinker? Is there a manager of thoughts? Is it you? How does it work?

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whatsit
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby whatsit » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:28 am

Ok, let's get you to see this.

Tell me, where do thoughts come from and if there is a thinker? Is there a manager of thoughts? Is it you? How does it work?
Thoughts can arise to your surroundings, if a song is playing thoughts can flood in of a past relationship. Today I got up to make tea and I saw some clothes pegs on the counter and went out to the line to bring the clothes. Before I would have assumed the controller planned this. thoughts are response to stimulus or even random. There was an assumed manager of thoughts but i really cant find him. The tinker is the brain, not a mysterious me somewhere inside this body. The brain produces these thoughts and then stores them as memories.

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if there is no me?????????

Postby Ilona » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:00 am

Very good.
So is there a function at all for 'me'? What is 'me' useful for?
Where can it be found?

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whatsit
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Re: if there is no me?????????

Postby whatsit » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:44 pm

Very good.
So is there a function at all for 'me'? What is 'me' useful for?
Where can it be found?
Ye me is the trouble maker. The one who identifies with the anger, sadness etc. the one who wants stuff or wont be happy. Cant really think how me is useful.

me is found when something goes wrong, commenting on how stupid I am. The illusion of me. There is no evidence of me really


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