Looking for a guide

[xmasdoo]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
My understanding is that the concept of "self" is solely comprised of a series of thoughts rather than direct experience of the 5 senses. When I just see, feel, smell, hear, and taste, I cannot truly determine what is actually me without some involvement of thought.

What are you looking for at LU?
I think I still have trouble directly seeing reality unfiltered by thought. Although the idea of "no self" clearly resonates with me, I don't believe I've yet experienced a true feeling of "no self" that would remove any further doubt from the equation. With LU, I hope to receive the guidance and direction that would allow me to truly witness "no self" experientially rather than conceptually.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I hope that through a guided conversation, I will be directed and pointed in ways that can potentially lead me to more direct experiences with seeing "no self". I expect that the guide will have more experience with this than me and will be able to adjust their pointing based on a clear understanding of where I am in my "journey" and what I need to have an awakening.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
My spiritual journey began 5-6 years ago when a combination of life challenges, loss of purpose, and general feeling of stuckness led me to start introspective work at a deeper level. At that time, I started doing talk therapy for the first time, meditating more regularly, and also immersing myself in spirituality. Sam Harris's Waking Up app was my first introduction to the concept of awakening and non-dualism. Over the past 5 years, I've continued to explore this albeit not always consistently. In 2024, I completed a Goenka vipassana silent meditation retreat for 10 days. More recently, I completed Joe Hudson's Connections Course, which I find quite aligned with Eastern spiritual practices even though it's not directly marketed as such. I also follow Angelo DiLullo's Youtube channel, which I find helpful in my daily practice. I've also read his book. I have not yet had any direct contact with a non-dual guide or teacher, which is why I'm particularly interested in LU.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Anastacia42]

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

Jed McKenna, Sam Harris, all good. I'm not familiar with Joe Hudson. That's okay. Well take it from here

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[xmasdoo]

Hi Stacy,

Thanks so much for offering your guidance. Below I'll answer your questions one by one.

How will life change?

Life seems to be always changing already, so I'm not sure if I have a particular expectation of how life will change with this exploration. Experiences are constantly happening, and they never really repeat in the same ways. Maybe I'm hoping that there will be a greater sense of ease?

How will you change?

It's a bit hard to answer this particular question. If "you" is referring to my thoughts, then I think I'll have a different relationship to my thoughts. My thoughts themselves might change as well.

What will be different?

I'm not sure if anything will actually be different, but perhaps I'll feel a greater sense of connection with myself and others? This might have a direct influence on my experience.

What is missing?

I'm not sure actually, but I somehow don't feel whole. I feel something is missing, but I also can't point my finger to exactly what it is. It's just a feeling of things not being exactly right.

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

You can call me Jim. I am in Central European Time.

To be honest, it was quite difficult to answer your questions because I don't know if I really have an expectation about how things will change. There is maybe a small part of me that hopes things will be "better", but I recognize that as just a thought. When I just sit with the question, what comes up is this feeling that "nothing will change and everything will change", as it always has.

Regards,
Jim

[Anastacia42]

Hi Jim,

Your welcome.

Your expectations sound reasonable.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.



Loving,

[xmasdoo]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

What comes up are some thoughts that try to make sense of this. But if I sit with it then there's just the sensations, visuals, hearing, feelings, etc.

[Anastacia42]

Okay, good. That was checking for fears.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[xmasdoo]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I would like some clarification on the experience of thoughts arising but not the content itself. What does that mean exactly? Everything else is crystal clear.

[Anastacia42]

Thoughts happen, but they don't mean anything. Their content is untrue.

This will begin to help you begin to sort it out and the one after this even more.

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[xmasdoo]

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Ambulance alarm in the distance, simply = sound
Website on computer screen, simply = image/color
Walking down the street, simply = sensation, image/color, sound
Eating pad thai at a restaurant, simply = taste, sensation, smell
Feeling of me looking out into the world, simply = thought
Feeling of clothes on my skin, simply = sensation
Seeing my hands typing on the keyboard, simply = image/color
Seeing text message on my phone, simply = image/color
Thoughts about the text message on my phone, simply = thought
Feeling of my tongue in my mouth, simply = sensation
Thinking that this is my tongue in my mouth, simply = thought

[Anastacia42]

Very good.

Now the next step.


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?Look closely. They're there.


Loving,

[xmasdoo]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The experiences without “I” is truer because it is an unnecessary addition that’s added. The experiences without “I” is already true. I somehow know this, but yet the “I” thought still comes up.

2. What is here without labels?

Without labels, there is:
- Seeing colors, light, and shadow
- Hearing
- Feeling sensations
- Thoughts

I’m also realizing that the words for senses are also labels. If I don’t use any labels, it’s actually hard to describe what’s here. I just can say that something is definitely here.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

The labels have nothing to do with the experience itself. They are just interpretations of what’s happening. Even the second exercise without “I” is describing the experience and not the mere experience itself.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body? Look closely. They're there.

I didn’t feel a significant difference, but I think the second exercise felt lighter in my body. I think I need to investigate this more because it’s still very subtle to me.

[Anastacia42]

Perfect

also realizing that the words for senses are also labels

Yes, we've pared it down, but all words are labels.

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.

We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[xmasdoo]

What is found?

This is a difficult exercise for me because every time I try to detect the sensation in a specific area of my body, I can’t really tell what’s there in my heart and solar plex area. And even as I write that I feel this sense of frustration, tension, and heaviness which is I think what you’re referring to. But it doesn’t seem to come from anywhere. It’s just „there“.

Your insight of peaceful not being an actual sensation has been especially interesting to me because I’m now trying to understand what actually makes me feel peaceful. The heaviness is definitely not there when I feel peaceful. But I also haven’t been able to isolate it to a particular area of my body.

[Anastacia42]

You've got it.

Tension & heaviness are Sensations. Frustration is a label, a thought like peaceful.

It's not so important "where it comes from." z

Now a little more about labels.

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body? There are. Look.

Loving

[xmasdoo]

I did the mind labeling exercise already. Should I repeat it?