Getting untangled

[Tanglier]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That the self is a delusion, a belief. Specifically that there is a separate entity that we call ‘me’ which is apart from yet relating to the rest of the world. If there is no real self and we can truly believe this, then we can live according to our true unseparated nature. If we can live in this way then we reduce our suffering.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for another tool to move me on the path to awakening. I am hoping that an extended period of one to one work with a guide will help me really address all the assumptions that I have about the self - I say ‘really address’ because I have been addressing them for some time, and in many ways I am intellectually convinced that there is no self, yet I cannot really ‘feel’ it. So I suppose there must be still some delusions holding me back.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I think there will be regular day to day contact via email between me and a guide, who will ask a series of questions about my experience of the self and adjust their questions according to the answers that I give. I will be thinking hard about each question and trying to answer it honestly from my own experience. That is what I expect about the process of the guided conversation. If you mean what do I expect as an outcome, well I would hope to be able to strengthen my existing beliefs about no-self and embed them to such a degree that I can actually feel the difference that it makes in my life - a lighter, less thought-tangled existence of greater flow and spontaneity and connection with all that is.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
After ten years practising mindfulness meditation I wanted to explore more deeply so I joined a local Buddhist sangha, in the Triratna order, in 2018 and became a Mitra in 2020. I have found it very helpful and supportive in moving me along the spiritual path and providing a likeminded community. I have never found meditation an easy activity, but I do treat meditation seriously as a way into discovering the true nature of reality and the self, especially when I follow more insight-based meditations such as those taught by Tejananda. I go on retreat two or three times a year. Recently I have been exploring nondualism and getting a lot out of that. I also read a lot of books of mainly Buddhist spirituality. However, even though I throw a lot of resources in terms of time and effort into my seeking, my progress towards the goal that I outlined above often seems frustratingly slow. I have had two powerful spiritual experiences in this period which have given me a taste of what life could be like if I can truly let go of the self and trust in what is right here rather than want things to be different.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Noro]

Hello, My name is Rowena and I can be your guide, if you would like.

Truth is the most important thing here

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Please try to post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written. Normally all questions will be in blue font, but occasionally the blue font might not be used so please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, Please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered as this makes it easier for both of us.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Warmly,

Rowena

[Tanglier]

Hello Rowena, first of all thank you so much for offering to be my guide. I am very excited and quite nervous.
I live in the UK so I am on British GMT. My name is Kim and you can call me that if you like.
I have read the disclaimer and the FAQs which are all good.
I want to reply to your questions today to show my willingness, but I am aware that I am about to go away on a walking break in the mountains tomorrow when it will be difficult to attend in the same way. Shall I try, or just resume on Friday when I am back?

How will life change?

I imagine that life will be more sense-based and less thought-based. That is what I would like anyway, For the tyranny of the thinking mind to give me a rest and allow more spontaneous responses and actions in the world to flow through. I think that life will still have joys and sorrows but I will not attach so much to them, there will be more equanimity. In other ways I think that life will remain very similar in its outer trappings, ie I will continue to work, have friends, do relationships, sing in a choir, meditate, go on holiday etc.

How will you change?

I don't think that I will change substantially, as hopefully there is not a substantial self to change! I will look the same. I guess I will feel different things, and feel things differently, but apart from what I said in answer to your first question it is hard for me to guess. I imagine that I will feel much more ease around just being (at the moment I find I am attached to 'doing' and that gets me down. There is a fear of 'emptiness'. I notice that when I fill the emptiness with activity, usually I get a kick but I know that underneath I am filling a gap that doesn't need to be filled and that I would like just to sit with a be more spacious and calm.)

What will be different?

I suppose it's similar to the above - on one level nothing will be different - it's the same life, the same body etc. - but the underlying feeling and response to life will feel very different in the ways I tried to outline. A lot of this is a big mystery to me so it is hard to know exactly what will or might be the same and what different. All I am working on is that liberating from the self will have a big impact on the reduction of suffering, which I suppose is my main motivation.

What is missing?

What is missing in my life now, do you mean? A sense of deep contentment. An acceptance of life as it is, rather than as I would like it to be (even though it's mostly very good!). A real lived out feeling of how it would be to have my attachment to the self thoroughly loosened, as opposed to an intellectual understanding of the 'no self' doctrine, which I think I already have.

Looking forward to hearing from you!
Kim

[Noro]

Hello Kim,

Nice to meet you and I am one hour ahead as I am on CET.

I am so glad that you responded before going off on the walking break in the mountains, and of course we can resume when you get back on Friday.

I imagine that life will be more sense-based and less thought-based.

We will be spending a lot of time looking at direct experience, what is actually being experienced through the five senses, rather than the thoughts that constantly throw up "interpretations" of experience. Therefore I think that you will find that life will therefore become more sense-based.

There is a fear of 'emptiness'. I notice that when I fill the emptiness with activity, usually I get a kick but I know that underneath I am filling a gap that doesn't need to be filled and that I would like just to sit with a be more spacious and calm.)

It is very helpful that you are already seeing this pattern of avoidance of "emptiness." The "fear" of emptiness is very natural and I would like to point out that a gap is already being created through the desire "...just to sit and be more spacious and calm." We will address this upon your return.

All I am working on is that liberating from the self will have a big impact on the reduction of suffering, which I suppose is my main motivation.

Great!

An acceptance of life as it is, rather than as I would like it to be (even though it's mostly very good!).

That is already a great discernment!

If you have time to glance through the following before you leave, great. If not, it will be here for your return:

HOW TO LOOK FOR THE NO SELF IN THE EXERCISES
There is a BIG difference between knowing that there is nothing, and seeing that there is nothing.
If you can’t look and see for yourself directly, you cannot describe what you are actually seeing, it would be a best guess based on memory..
Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

COLOURED SOCKS
If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to answer:
1. You can think about it, trying to remember, or guessing what colour they are.
2. You can have a look at your socks and see what colour they ACTUALLY are!
You will agree that only by looking you could be 100% certain, right?

For the purpose of this inquiry, it is crucial that you are clear about this difference in the two ways of answering and stick only to the second way. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on. We are only interested in Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE)- the experience right now and right here.

DIRECT OR ACTUAL EXPERIENCE IS
Seeing (without the naming/cognizing of what is seen)
Hearing (without the naming/cognizing of what is heard
Feeling or Sensing (without naming emotion as this is sensation plus thoughts/labels)
Tasting (without the naming/cognizing of what is tasted)
Smelling (without the naming/cognizing of what is tasted)
Cognizing or Thinking (but not the content of thinking. Thinking about content is just more thinking and diverts you from the direct experience)

Direct Experience is not conceptual, or made of thought.
Experiencing happens before thought arrives to describe or explain it.
The moment we attempt to communicate experience we introduce concepts. We then respond or identify with those concepts. Then that experience of responding gives birth to more stories (concepts) to which we respond and so on…

Here is an exercise that can be done as you are walking:


DIRECT EXPERIENCE OF DAILY ACTIVITIES

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try off and on throughout the day as you can.
Label daily activities as simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of the experiencing of a cup of coffee

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thinking about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Please break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above. The point is to learn the difference between Actual / Direct Experience and the content of thought, which we made up.

When you get back you can send me a few lists of your experiencing. It is also wonderful opportunity to be out and fully experience nature without adding labels to what you are seeing, hearing, and feeling as sensations in your body.

Have a great few days and look forward to hearing from you when you get back. :) Rowena

[Tanglier]

Hi Rowena

When I got back I realised that I had done something a bit different from the lists:

I spent some time trying to mindfully focus on sensations without labelling them. It was hard!

The first time, I was in a beautiful quiet valley. I could BE with the sounds of nature for a few seconds, then the labels came in always. Another layer of thinking was descriptions of or judgements on what I was doing in hearing sounds, e.g. "I am just hearing sounds" or "It doesn't last very long". A third layer of thinking was scripting how I would communicate this experience, presumably to you. A fourth layer was a judgement about getting involved in all of the above! So all very frustrating but familiar patterns.

The second time I was just walking along an ordinary road. It was damp and cold and I was a bit uncomfortable, but there was definite relief in dwelling in the senses for as long as I could. Even the sound of my coat moving as I walked. Just ordinary sensations but a very temporary relief from the constant thinking commentary and evaluations.

I was spending these days with my partner, so there was less opportunity than I wanted to really lose myself in this exercise.

I am happy to revert to the simple lists for tomorrow’s post if that is helpful, let me know.

Also, I am finding it very difficult to access this thread each time I go to the website. I am not very techie and it confuses me. What is the quickest way of doing this please?

Best wishes

Kim

[Noro]

Hello Kim,

Thanks for the update about your practices. It seems as if you are very aware of how easy it is for thoughts to take over and that is really important to see. Im glad that the second time you looked was fruitful as you had a temporary relief from the constant thinking commentary and evaluations. When attention becomes immersed in the sense fields of sound, vision etc. the "sixth" sense of mental activity or thinking does quieten down. But the object of the exercises is not to try to alter thinking in any way, but to see it as another field of activity in a similar way to the other senses.

Regarding finding your post. At the top left of your page next to the "Post Reply" tab, there is a tab that looks like a spanner. If you click on that there is an option to subscribe to the topic. Please click on that to subscribe and that should facilitate access to our thread. If you have already done that, then it could be that there are some technical glitches with the forum website which does happen from time to time.

Now that you are back from your holiday please do go back to the exercise that I sent you. For clarity sake for this thread I will resend below.

HOW TO LOOK FOR THE NO SELF IN THE EXERCISES
There is a BIG difference between knowing that there is nothing, and seeing that there is nothing.
If you can’t look and see for yourself directly, you cannot describe what you are actually seeing, it would be a best guess based on memory..
Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

COLOURED SOCKS
If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to answer:
1. You can think about it, trying to remember, or guessing what colour they are.
2. You can have a look at your socks and see what colour they ACTUALLY are!
You will agree that only by looking you could be 100% certain, right?

For the purpose of this inquiry, it is crucial that you are clear about this difference in the two ways of answering and stick only to the second way. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on. We are only interested in Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE)- the experience right now and right here.

DIRECT OR ACTUAL EXPERIENCE IS
Seeing (without the naming/cognizing of what is seen)
Hearing (without the naming/cognizing of what is heard
Feeling or Sensing (without naming emotion as this is sensation plus thoughts/labels)
Tasting (without the naming/cognizing of what is tasted)
Smelling (without the naming/cognizing of what is tasted)
Cognizing or Thinking (but not the content of thinking. Thinking about content is just more thinking and diverts you from the direct experience)

Direct Experience is not conceptual, or made of thought.
Experiencing happens before thought arrives to describe or explain it.
The moment we attempt to communicate experience we introduce concepts. We then respond or identify with those concepts. Then that experience of responding gives birth to more stories (concepts) to which we respond and so on…

DIRECT EXPERIENCE OF DAILY ACTIVITIES

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try off and on throughout the day as you can.
Label daily activities as simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of the experiencing of a cup of coffee

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thinking about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Please break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above. The point is to learn the difference between Actual / Direct Experience and the content of thought, which is an interpretation of what is being directly experienced.

Warmly,

Rowena

[Tanglier]

Hi Rowena

DIRECT EXPERIENCE OF DAILY ACTIVITIES

Walking home from the station
Feeling feet on pavement, wind in face, tightness in gut = simply sensations
Hearing traffic, wind, footsteps = simply sounds
Seeing shapes on the pavement and cars passing me = simply seeing
Smelling rain on tarmac, traffic fumes = simply smelling
Thinking in the background, simply = thinking

Cleaning my teeth
Seeing the blue toothpaste, and the toothbrush moving, simply = seeing
Hearing the motor of the toothbrush and the water running, simply = hearing
Smelling the toothpaste and the water, simply = smelling
Feeling the brushes on the teeth and the vibrations in the gums, simply = sensation
Tasting the toothpaste and the water, simply = taste
Thinking in the background, simply = thinking

Taking my socks off
Seeing the colours and patterns, simply v seeing
Feeling the wool under my fingers, simply = sensation
Smelling the faint woollen smell, simply = smelling
Thinking in the background, simply = thinking

Doing online yoga class
Seeing the teacher on screen, and my body moving, simply = seeing
Hearing the teacher, my breathing and birds outside, simply = hearing
Feeling the body moving and stretching, simply = sensation
Thinking in the background, simply = thinking

Sitting on the train
Feeling backside on seat and feet on floor = simply sensations
Hearing the engine and voices = simply sounds
Seeing colours and shapes of carpet, seats and people = simply seeing
Thinking in the background, simply = thinking

The thinking was more foreground than background though!

It helped when I just labelled the activity in a verbal way, e.g. Hearing, as otherwise the mind specifies exactly what I think I’m hearing. It was almost impossible to just sense without any kind of labelling.

Best wishes

Kim

[Noro]

It helped when I just labelled the activity in a verbal way, e.g. Hearing, as otherwise the mind specifies exactly what I think I’m hearing. It was almost impossible to just sense without any kind of labelling.

Yes, it is difficult to sense without any kind of labelling. We learned to do that from a very young age didn't we! And actually it is not about trying to get rid of labels with this exercise, it is about seeing clearly how everything is constructed by thought through labelling, interpreting, describing etc. So when you go about your day, sitting on the train for example, you can pare the labelling down to a bare minimum i.e. just noticing: sensing (sensations), seeing, hearing etc. and seeing how easily more thoughts arise after each 'noticing', almost instantaneously!


MIND LABEL EXPERIENCE
Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots.
For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry,
I am having a drink of water.......

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
hearing clock ticking
looking at computer screen
feeling hungry

Finally, verbally, try the two together, first say/think "I am......." and next without: I am walking / walking

Pay attention to body sensations, watch what is happening in the body.
What is the body sensation when you say "I am ….."
What is the body sensation without the add-on of "I am…."?

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Does one way feel "truer" than the other? And If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the actual experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Warmly,
Rowena

[Tanglier]

Hi Rowena

1. Does one way feel "truer" than the other? And If so, which one?

They both felt equally true but in different ways. The ‘I am’ statements felt true because that is how we are conditioned to think and express things. And there was a sense of one person, me, doing the activity, rather than anyone else doing it. The non ‘I am’ statements felt true because that is what was happening, and they accorded with my intellectual understanding of the absence of self.

2. What is here without labels?

I’m not sure I understand the question. There were other things that fleetingly occurred that I didn’t write down but all would have had labels, I.e. descriptions of what I was experiencing. All other things that I would assume were here were not in my consciousness. Does that mean they were not here? In one sense, Yes.

3. Do labels affect the actual experience or just describe it?

They kind of make it real, reify the experience, fix it in some way. Without a label perhaps there is no experience at all? Or a different kind of experience. I don’t know, this is difficult to answer.

4.

Did you notice any differences in the body?

No I didn’t.

Best wishes

Kim

[Noro]

Hi Kim,

Good going. That exercise is a bit tricky and so I will give you some pointers as to what is being looked for, and we can look at it again in a little while. There are no right or wrong answers. What all the exercises are pointing to is finding clarity through direct experience rather than rational, or conditioned ways of interpreting using thought.

They both felt equally true but in different ways. The ‘I am’ statements felt true because that is how we are conditioned to think and express things. And there was a sense of one person, me, doing the activity, rather than anyone else doing it.

When you say the "I am" statements felt true.
How does "felt true" actually FEEL in your direct experience?
Please go back to the first exercise on direct experience as a refresher. We have learned to use language quite sloppily, using phrases such as "it feels like", "it seems like", "it sounds like" to stand in instead of saying "I think..."
Can you see this? Yes/No

When you say:"because that is how were are conditioned to think and express things."
YES! and we are now going to question such assumptions and/or conclusions! :)

The non ‘I am’ statements felt true because that is what was happening, and they accorded with my intellectual understanding of the absence of self.

You said that the statements "felt true" because that is what was happening....
Was there an actual feeling, like a gentle sensation somewhere in the body connecting with some intuitive or instinctive feeling?



APPLE EXERCISE

Here's an exercise for you to get super clear on what direct experience is. You can go online and find a photo of an apple or use a real apple.

When looking at an apple in the usual way, we are looking at something particular in the visual field, and we will see that there is a colour and a shape. Then, see how quickly thinking comes in and overlays the direct experience of that particular "unnamed" something with a thought saying "apple" and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

In actual or direct experience we are simply seeing, and the simple act of seeing does not include any interpretations or descriptions. Those are overlayed through thought onto the visual experience which is totally non-conceptual.

However, as a concession, for the sake of communicating we can allow a minimum of thought content, in order to do this exercise; so we can say that colors and shapes are seen, and thinking is also seen but without any thought content, i.e "that's an apple".

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts (including labels, interpretations and descriptions) about something.

Actual experience refers to the raw data of sound, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thinking arising, but not its content.

So, as you do this apple exercise, is there really an 'apple' here or only color and shape and a thought about 'apple'?

Can an actual 'apple' be found in direct experience?

While thoughts or descriptions are known, what they talk about can't be found in direct experience.

I hope that this is clear for you.
Please let me know how it goes, and you can also pick up another object and look at it in the same way.

[Tanglier]

Hi Rowena

How does "felt true" actually FEEL in your direct experience?

If you are referring to 'feel' in the sense of physical sensations in the body, then each felt just the same as the other because I couldn't notice any difference in my body.

Can you see this? Yes/No

Sort of, but the use of 'feel' to mean 'have a belief about' is quite acceptable and not sloppy. E.g. 'I feel that it's a good plan.'

Was there an actual feeling, like a gentle sensation somewhere in the body connecting with some intuitive or instinctive feeling?

No

So, as you do this apple exercise, is there really an 'apple' here or only color and shape and a thought about 'apple'?

There is colour, shape, smell and the feeling of it as I hold it in my hand. This is my direct experience. The 'apple' bit is a thought based convention.

Can an actual 'apple' be found in direct experience?

No.

I am struggling a bit here because my body does not pick up the kind of sensations that perhaps yours does. For context, I am a very left brain person who has used words and concepts for a living, so I start at a disadvantage!

Best wishes

Kim

[Noro]

Hello Kim,

I am struggling a bit here because my body does not pick up the kind of sensations that perhaps yours does. For context, I am a very left brain person who has used words and concepts for a living, so I start at a disadvantage!

Rest assured, mostly we are all very disconnected from our body sensation, I definitely was, and you do not start at a disadvantage, you are starting... simply that!! We learned to go to thought for everything and the fast-paced online life that we now live means that there is not enough time to "go to the body". Thoughts are often "abstracted" from body sensations, as well as the other senses and lead us off into past/future narratives and so checking in with the body is a useful practice.

Here is a body centered exercise.

LOOKING FOR A BOUNDARY
1. Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.

Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?

It is simple direct & nonverbal. Just stay with the sensations.

Sink into that noticing of the sensations.

Is there a boundary to be found between your butt and the chair? Yes/No

NOW

2. Please do the same exercise with your feet.

Feel your feet touching the floor; and it doesn't matter if you are wearing shoes or not.

Is there any clear dividing line between where your feet end and the floor even if there are socks and shoes between? Yes/No

Again, simple, direct and nonverbal. Just stay with the sensations.

NOW

3. Place your right hand, palm down, on your right thigh. (You can use the left side if you prefer.)

Feel your hand and your thigh together at the same time.

Is there any clear dividing line between your hand and your thigh? Yes/No.

Again, simple, direct and nonverbal.

What do you find?

[Tanglier]

Hi Rowena, thanks for the encouragement !

Is there a boundary to be found between your butt and the chair? Yes/No

There is no boundary. Just a set of slightly more intense sensations.

Is there any clear dividing line between where your feet end and the floor even if there are socks and shoes between? Yes/No

Again no.

Is there any clear dividing line between your hand and your thigh? Yes/No.

Again, no. I am very familiar with this exercise as the meditation teacher I work with, Tejananda, uses it a lot when he gets us to embody ourselves as a way of noticing what is really there in our direct experience. It is very clear to me that the body is just a set of vibrating energies, coming and going. You would think that this would lead to a very different way of me experiencing my 'self' off the cushion, but it doesn't really. It does, however, at least feed into my conceptual understanding of no-self, which is a start ...

Best wishes

Kim

[Noro]

Hi Kim,

You would think that this would lead to a very different way of me experiencing my 'self' off the cushion, but it doesn't really. It does, however, at least feed into my conceptual understanding of no-self, which is a start ...

Again, this is perfectly normal. A very gradual restructuring will take place eventually, but our attention goes where it goes; and a lot of the time the focus is needed in everyday consciousness / activities.


THERE IS NO SEPARATE SELF

"There is no separate "self," never has been and never will be. It is all a made-up story?"

Please share your immediate experience when you say or read those words, allow any thoughts that are emotionally charged, even if you think they might be irrational and any sensations that are noticed in the body. Look for any contractions in head, heart or gut. Please keep to your direct experience and stay away from discussing thoughts or ideas about a separate self.

Repeat the sentence several times:

"There is no separate "self," never has been and never will be. It is all a made-up story?"

After each time you read or say it, notice what happens, feelings, sensations, thoughts, movements, look with a fine attention to shifting movements of sensations, thought content etc...

And now write down briefly what is noticed in your direct experience. You can write it down in the format of thoughts and sensations. If nothing is immediately felt don't be concerned.... just try again.

Don't try to get anything right, (you can't get it wrong!) just share what is seen, unfiltered, uncensored.
Generally this process will be driven by seeing what is already happening, what is already the case. What is effortlessly seen while engaging questions and exercises is what is most important, so trust the process and let all flow free and be seen.

What is evaluating?
What is thinking the thoughts?
What is creating seeking and contraction?

Look many times. Remember, any referencing to past or future ideas, of concepts from others, is useless. Only to ask the question and see what is there, what unfolds. "Your job" is to look at this until clarity dawns.

[Tanglier]

Hi Rowena

These are my first thoughts or sensations that came to me each time I sat with the statement

'There Is No Separate Self etc.

':

'Wouldn't that be nice'

Slightly increased heart rate?

'An outrageous statement'

'Brainwashing'

'But maybe there's a self that isn't separate'

'We all act as if there is a separate self'

Heart beating

Just aware of body vibrations

'I know that'

'These are just words, what matters is actions'

'Irrelevant'

A memory of an incident in a meditation a few years ago when loosening the self felt like I was being led to the edge of a cliff and looking down was a bit heady and scary but also inviting. I pulled back from the brink.

What is evaluating?
What is thinking the thoughts?
What is creating seeking and contraction?

It feels like 'I' am generating the responses from 'my mind'. But I know that this is not the case - 'I' am being thought etc. The thinking and feeling are all arising in consciousness. However, knowing this is an intellectual position that doesn't usually touch my being (or non-being!).

Best wishes

kim