nothing reveals itself

[nothingatall]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
that the early life learned construct of an identified separate self cannot be assumed and is open to questioning

What are you looking for at LU?
Someone who will hold me to the questioning with deep maturity and who is adept at seeing the ways of the mind to avoid, subvert or numb the revealing of what actually IS. Someone who will take me to the 'end.'

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Honesty, care, clarity, absolute guidance, an ability to see through any trickery of the mind or fear responses. Someone with a resolute way of seeing through avoidance and how can keep me facing toward the 'fire' of the real.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
A lifelong seeing that the expected and accepted ways of being are limited, restricted and fear based often. At 69 years of age there have been many paths including Buddhism, meditation, silent retreat, endless teachers and endless books and practices, workshops, zoom sessions ad infinitum. It is only NOW that there feels like an inevitable drawing towards what has been an intellectual understanding for too long without lived experience. Beyond tired of seeking which has seemed to fall away largely but the nagging suspicion that I am at the gate but not through it.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Anastacia42]

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

Interesting how many clients are coming to this so late in life. I'm 65 but I woke up when I was oh what would that be? April 2007.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please? I'm near Boulder, Colorado.


Loving,

[nothingatall]

Hello Stacy!
Thank you so much for offering to act as guide... huge appreciation. The quote from Ram Dass from ages ago always struck a chord... 'we are all just here to walk each other home'.
Have read the disclaimer and also what this is NOT and agree.

Here goes...

How will life change?

There is really no particular expectation here about how things may change. There would have been grand ideas once about total ease and no suffering but most expectations (perhaps almost all?) have fallen away. Just pure openness (with a little trepidation maybe?)

How will you change?

No idea until it is experienced.

What will be different?

As above, without an idea, there is just openness here... readiness is perhaps another descriptor.

What is missing?

Cannot find anything that feels like it is missing except perhaps a 'knowing' that a shift has taken place, but then on further investigation, what needs to 'know' this actually? Perplexing on some level but again this feels like a vacant and barely present curiosity somehow.

You can call me whatever you like!!! I go by Simon or Si with some people. I am in Melbourne, Australia so our apparent time differences are vast. Lived in the U.S for 24 years but born here.

Thank you again and until next... love

[Anastacia42]

Hi Simon,

Beautiful. Your expectations are fairly reasonable. Yes I'm in Colorado so that is a very big time difference. I grapple with it occasionally to attend teleconferences with one of the other guides.

Now what comes up when reading there is no "self," never has been & never will be. It is all a made up story


Loving,

[nothingatall]

Hi Stacy,

Good to connect, thank you.

Now what comes up when reading there is no "self," never has been & never will be. It is all a made up story

Strong statement! This is not a new suggestion but there is a sense of something (mind perhaps?) that almost glosses over this as if this is purely an intellectual statement requiring 'belief'. If there is a deeper digging into where this reading of the statement sits here it feels like it sits deep in the core of a vast sense of a body universe ... that this 'no self at all' has no real location but seems to want to dive through space/this body which feels like no form and yet sensation. Then again these are just words and in truth it feels like there is nothing to look for or nothing to look from... again words dammit :)
No sense of loss with this statement of no self.
love

[Anastacia42]

That strong statement is the truth. The question is meant to check for any fears.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

[nothingatall]

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Totally clear, thank you Stacy.
Love

[Anastacia42]

Okay good. So, try this:


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[nothingatall]

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Thank you Tracy, will begin the above experiencing labelling immediately and be back to you tomorrow.

Much gratitude. Love

[nothingatall]

Hi Stacy (I called you Tracy yesterday, apologies)

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

As suggested here are lists of the above suggestion for direct, simple experience.

(sitting on terrace)
feeling seat underneath- sensation
feeling breezes on skin- sensation
sound of laughter- hearing
tree moving- seeing
scent of something- smell
warmth on skin- sensation

(in a cafe)
warmth of the mug- sensation
warmth on skin-through window- sensation
bright sunlight- seeing
wet, warmth on lips- sensation
bitter sweet in mouth- taste
loud laughter- hearing
voices- hearing
out breath- sensation

simple, simple

I went to a dance performance last night and had a familiar sense of observation, participation without a 'me' separate from the happening. love

[Anastacia42]

Good. Your answers are right. Stories & labels on the left. Direct Experience on the right. Still labels, but less content of thought.

Next...

u]Mind Labeling Experience[/u]

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[nothingatall]

Hello Stacy,

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The use of the 'I' seems an extra and unnecessary step somehow. Rather than adding anything it seems to ask for more than is essential to include an 'I'. The experience or happening simply 'is'. The writing without the 'I' feels 'what it actually is'.

2. What is here without labels?

Simply what is happening.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Definitely only a descriptor.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

The implied body evaporates and in it's place is 'no place'.

This is what this questioning shows and every moment if offering this.

Gratitude. Love.

[Anastacia42]

Okay..

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?
The implied body evaporates and in it's place is 'no place

It's true there is no body, but we're looking for Sensations. Anything?

Loving,

[nothingatall]

It's true there is no body, but we're looking for Sensations. Anything?

Last few days and definitely during the recent inquiry very strong energetic sensations in the 'areas' of head, heart, belly and pelvis. Like an ocean without shores if there were a description. Strong and swirling...

love

[Anastacia42]

strong energetic sensations in the 'areas' of head, heart, belly and pelvis. Like an ocean without shores if there were a description. Strong and swirling...

That sounds like the kind of shift in perception we are looking for.

If the ocean has no shores can you find any separate self?

Loving