I'd like to speak to the manager

[jefe2060]

:>)

Gooooooooooood stuff.

And you are very welcome. Lots of gratitude here too. Its the same gratitude as far as I can tell :>)

Me:

If I told you I believed in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, or that Superman was real, REALLY believed, like, I didn't even just believe it, I LIVED AS IF IT WAS ABSOLUTELY TRUE AND OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE ELSE THAT IT WAS, and you saw that that was my truth, what would you know about me for certain?

You:

Nothing

Yes I guess that's true! But you were more clear about it below:


Me:

(please look at my pointer and your use of the word "believed" in your quoted response above and comment on it's relevance to reality):

You:

It's obvious now of course that beliefs have no relevance to reality. Can't put it any more simply than that!

Just to be clear we are on the same page, the point about me telling you all those things I believed in in the way I was pointing at it was just that: "beliefs have no relevance to reality."

You ought to be very proud of yourself! Or of The Grace, anyway. Or whatever ya wanna call it. I'm nearly 66 and I got all this about 3 years ago. I have only just really started living my life. Yep, gratitude is appropriate, I'd say. But there's nobody over here to thank other than what we all are. Not who we thought and "felt" we were, that's for sure.

Tomorrow I will throw some "final" questions at you and see if there's anyone to salute them ;>)

❤️

[jefe2060]

Hi, didn't sleep well last night and my brain is a bit smushy. Also I ought to have asked you this before “threatening” you 🤣 with forthcoming “graduation” 🤣:

How do you see the status of this project?

What is your evaluation of where you stand in regards to what you came here to see?

J

[Enzymatic]

Hi Jeff. There's no rush for any of this at all! I'm thankful for any and all responses, whenever they come ;)

Also I ought to have asked you this before “threatening” you 🤣 with forthcoming “graduation” 🤣:

How do you see the status of this project?

There's some relief that you asked you this question, because there's a thought that I'm not ready to graduate quite yet, and I'd like to explore that with you if you don't mind.

What is your evaluation of where you stand in regards to what you came here to see?

My evaluation is that there has not been a shift / a passing through the gate / a SEEING what I am. With your help there has been direct seeing what this appears to be, and yet my evaluation is that it is primarily an intellectual, rather than experiential, understanding rather than a KNOWING. I would say that "something has not been let go of", which was an expectation I had when I came here.

Perhaps we can continue to look? Perhaps you have questions about this response / suggestions?

[jefe2060]

Hey there!

Perhaps we can continue to look? Perhaps you have questions about this response / suggestions?

Absolutely. No worry, no hurry. We will look until we are done.


J: “How do you see the status of this project?”

There's some relief that you asked this question, because there's a thought that I'm not ready to graduate quite yet, and I'd like to explore that with you if you don't mind.

Sure.

Have any other thoughts today?

🤭

If there's something in particular, bring it! Otherwise, I have plenty to keep you busy. Up to you.

Please don't answer these next questions from memory. Directly LOOK after each, in terms of what the case is NOW.

Are you having any thoughts that are relatively proximal in terms of time to reading this question, either before, during, or after?

What's your understanding of the significance of thought relative to reality?

Where do all those thoughts come from, anyway? LOOK!

Do you cause them? LOOK!

Can you predict the next one you will have, or its content? LOOK!

There's some relief that you asked this question

Tell me about the relief. What is it made of?

Remember the Green/Red exercise?

How could you construct/deconstruct/play with “relief” to see what it is/isn't? Go ahead and do so.

…

There are a BUNCH of LU thought exercises. I'm going to give you a lot of them, the ones I find more interesting first. You don't have to do them in the order I give them to you in, nor is it necessary for you to do them all - although it's totally fine if you do. But that's no rush either.

Main thing is to do them until you get the point, or until something else happens.

Simple individual thought exercises

1. Can you find an inherent self anywhere, outside of thought?
2. Can thought experience thought? Can thought experience anything? (Thought is so very overrated - by thought).
3. Does thought make any contact with other kinds of sense experience, such as sounds or sensations – or are they totally separate from each other?
4. For a moment take note of exactly what is being experienced in this moment: 
Notice all sound, all sensation, all smell, all taste, all colour.
Notice how you're making absolutely no effort to be aware of them.
And notice that you're not making them happen.
You're not conducting the orchestra of experience that you're aware of.
And notice that thought is exactly the same as the rest of experience.
You're effortlessly aware of it, but you're not orchestrating it. You're not even orchestrating the thoughts which say that you're able to orchestrate thoughts.
5. The story of "me’ can seem to have continuity. Is it really continuous? Or are there simply isolated thoughts that never can truly touch each other, some of them claiming that there's one continuous story?
6. Observe thought closely. Try to determine what your next thought is going to be before it appears. Can you do this? Isn’t a thought only known as it appears? In that case, can you possibly claim to be in control of the thinking process, the thoughts, choices or impulses that arise, unless you can somehow instigate them beforehand?
7. Sit quietly and pay close attention to your thoughts for 20 minutes. Notice that thoughts seem to pop out of nowhere and have no obvious cause. They are a total surprise and you can find no cause or reason for their appearance. It should be obvious you were not involved in any way in the creation of these thoughts.
8. Do you have unpleasant thoughts? Do you want to have them? If you had any control over thoughts, don’t you think you would choose not to think such thoughts at all? Wouldn’t you be able to choose never to have thoughts that seem to make you unhappy?
9. When we look very closely and precisely we come to see that “me” thoughts only refer to other “me” thoughts, not to an actual abiding “me.” Observe thoughts with precision; can you ever find a ‘me’ within the “me” thoughts and feelings, or just a sense of me? 10. Pay attention to mental activity – to thoughts and images in the mind. Where are they arising? Are they inside something? Are they central to you, or are they peripheral? Do they leave any trace when they have gone?


Please be sure to list the specific question you are answering with each of your answers. Also, please separate all questions and answers even though I stuck them all in a big solid text clock.
Sorry, working on my phone, not very accurate with coloring only the actual questions as well!
Again, take your time, and ask whatever questions / make whatever comments you wish to.
♥️J

[Enzymatic]

Thank you so much for this, and for everything, Jeff. I will respond tomorrow to your first batch of questions. :)
D

[Enzymatic]

If there's something in particular, bring it! Otherwise, I have plenty to keep you busy. Up to you.

Please don't answer these next questions from memory. Directly LOOK after each, in terms of what the case is NOW.

Are you having any thoughts that are relatively proximal in terms of time to reading this question, either before, during, or after?

Many thoughts popping up just prior, and just after reading the question. No thoughts during the reading of the question. I see that thoughts arise one at a time and can't / don't overlap, and since the reading of the question requires thoughts, there aren't other thoughts popping up while reading.

What's your understanding of the significance of thought relative to reality?

My initial thought is that thought is just word salad in the mind which doesn't reflect reality whatsoever. But then I see that THAT THOUGHT is also a thought (a thought about thought), and if thought is a word salad which doesn't reflect reality, then a thought about thought is ALSO just word salad which doesn't reflect reality.

So then I put the brakes on and just LOOK and see that thoughts ARE REAL (something is aware of them) but the stories / pictures they present ARE NOT REAL.

Where do all those thoughts come from, anyway? LOOK!

They don't come from anywhere. They're created out of or arise out of nothing. They arise from ME. All those statements are true.

Do you cause them? LOOK!

I don't know what causes them to appear, but it's not me. I notice them appearing, as if I'm a spectator.

Can you predict the next one you will have, or its content? LOOK!

No, I absolutely cannot predict the next thought I'll have. It's impossible.

There's some relief that you asked this question

Tell me about the relief. What is it made of?

This and the next couple of questions really stopped me. The relief was made of thoughts + sensation. There were thoughts of "I'm still not getting this and Jeff seems to be moving forward as if I am and what is going to happen in the future when I have to say that I'm not?". Then, reading your kind response, there were thoughts of "Oh good, he's not outwardly disappointed or angry or impatient" and with those thoughts I experienced an emotion/sensation which I labeled "relief". See the next question.

Remember the Green/Red exercise?

I remember that exercise very well. In this context, the RED (the EXPERIENCE) was the emotion/sensation and the GREEN (the label) was "relief". The emotion/sensation was unmistakable, unmissable, direct. The label "relief" was a thought, a shorthand for the ACTUAL experience of that emotion/sensation.

How could you construct/deconstruct/play with “relief” to see what it is/isn't? Go ahead and do so.

I played back the events in my head, but instead of naming the experience of the sensation "relief", I name it "anger". But naming it anger doesn't cause my heart to race nor my face to turn hot nor my fists clench. So the label has no effect on the reality.

I can also play with "relief" by playing back the events in my head, removing the thought label and simply experiencing the emotion/sensation. It becomes just that experience.

Simple individual thought exercises

Can thought experience thought? Can thought experience anything? (Thought is so very overrated - by thought).

No. Thought is just... nothing. Rather, it's something which can't DO or BE anything. And here we are circling the drain of "I" and "Me" again... because of course "I" is just a label in the mind... a thought which can't DO or KNOW anything. So, OK, what AM I then?

I'll work through more questions in the coming days. Thank you Jeff :)

D

[jefe2060]

DDDDDD
DDDDD
DDDD
DDD
DD
D

😅

I will specifically address your last post later, but since I started thinking about this stuff (coming right up) that I had been considering sharing with you before I read your latest response anyway, I’ll start here. You can pretend it’s a week ago, or when you first showed up here, or whatever.

The message is one of those that I looked for all my life, so there's no good reason to make you wait for it.

You’re welcome.

This is part one. I’m a rather hasty (among other things) fellow 😅 (one smart fellow, he felt smart – say that 10x fast!) 😅 , so I’m having to force myself to hold part 2 until after you get with this in a completely unhurried manner and report.

Take a break from your thinking about thinking project and do this instead. There’s enough thinking about thinking to last a lifetime, we can revisit it if necessary.

—

Since you want to know who you are, and knowing that is another approach to seeing who you are not, there's a shortcut.

It's called “the pathless path”.

I mean, if you're gonna break on thru to the other side through a “Gateless Gate” you may as well take a road like that, eh?

😅

The “Direct Pointing” method is excellent, but all nodes knead to gnome.

😅

Q:
Are you aware?



(Obviously, or you wouldn't be aware of these words or anything else you are aware of. It's not a trick question, but if it feels like one, just look at all the things you are aware of.)


You're aware of stuff, right?


If you have to, you could look and list all the things you are aware of, and then, to be completely sure, recognize and note that you are, in fact, aware of them all, or....

...you wouldn't be aware of them. DUHHHHH. Right?


If you have some interest in launching into some cockamamie discussion about all this being a simulation, or that maybe we are all being dreamed by some great dreamer (well, there are cases to be made for both those things, but let's take the Occam's Razor “keep it simple, stupid!” approach here for the moment; we can discuss the implications of what you are looking for now later), put that aside for now and just pretend (if you have to) that it's a yes or no question and answer it.

Then…


Describe the experience you refer to that allows you to say that you are, in fact, aware.


Do this slowly, carefully, and quietly. Take your time, and tell me precisely what you find. This is NOT a philosophical exercise. If you find yourself doing much explaining and think/talking, you’re getting cold. Take it from the top and give it another go.


🙏🏻

[Enzymatic]

Thank you Jeff! This is really great. I want to spend time on this, per your suggestion, so I most likely won't respond again until the day after tomorrow... so I have today and tomorrow to marinate on this.

D

[jefe2060]

Thank you Jeff! This is really great. I want to spend time on this, per your suggestion, so I most likely won't respond again until the day after tomorrow... so I have today and tomorrow to marinate on this.

D

I woudn't wait. It's a quick look. I just meant to be mindful, present.

Are you aware?

Describe the "aware" that you are.

[jefe2060]

I was just talking to a friend and put it another way:

Describe the "data" you are referring to that substantiates your declaration, "I am aware".

What is the experience you are referring to?

J

[Enzymatic]

Sounds good! I will get on this when i get back from work tonight :)

D

[Enzymatic]

Hi Jeff,

I appreciate you not making me wait for the message you waited all your life for ;)

These questions really hit home :)

Are you aware?

Yes, absolutely

Describe the "data" you are referring to that substantiates your declaration, "I am aware".

The data is just THIS. Sitting in this chair, hearing the sound of the heater, seeing the white screen, feeling the tongue against the teeth. THIS is all here, and "me" with it (as it), all together. There's no data to refer to because it's just the FACT of this... there's no separate data to point to. The declaration that "I am aware" needs no substantiation because it's the most obvious fact of this moment: I am aware. If someone tried to tell me I'm not aware I would just laugh at them.

What is the experience you are referring to?

The experience is THIS. It's hard to even call it an experience. It's just BEING in the easiest, simplest way imaginable. Pure resting. No distance.

So grateful for this,
D

[jefe2060]

Well now.

I could try and come up with any manner of profound things to say, but it immediately occurred to me to say, “from this perspective, isn’t it hilarious to think of your having to work at anything, especially this?

Profound, eh?


Just to be crystal clear, although it’s pretty obvious, that when you say

The data is just THIS. Sitting in this chair, hearing the sound of the heater, seeing the white screen, feeling the tongue against the teeth…There's no data to refer to because it's just the FACT of this... there's no separate data to point to.

What you are referring to is the fact that

THIS is all here, and "me" with it (as it), all together.

...ie, there is no separation between this “me” (great to see the quotation marks!!) you are referring to, and the “THIS” that “...is all here”, correct? There is no separation, anywhere, period. Right? I don’t like putting words in your mouth, but tell me if you are saying anything substantively different than that.



Another way to phrase the previous question(s) is, do you find any separation between this “you/awareness” you are seeing is the (obvious) case of everything and anything else?


If not, please LOOK and tell me about this “you/ awareness”. Describe it.



If so, where is it (the “separatation”)?

The declaration that "I am aware" needs no substantiation because it's the most obvious fact of this moment: I am aware. If someone tried to tell me I'm not aware I would just laugh at them.

If memory serves, this, by the way, is what is meant by the part where God in the form of the burning bush (?) answers Moses’ question, “What is your name? Who are you?” by saying, “I Am That I Am.”




Please let me know how things are going in your day to day after seeing what you have seen.





:>) J

[Enzymatic]

Hi J!

It makes me wonder what Part 2 of the message you waited your whole life to hear is! It must be a doozy ;)

I will respond tonight when I get home from work :)

D

[Enzymatic]

Hello Jeff,

Thanks for your encouragement :)

Just to be crystal clear, although it’s pretty obvious, that when you say

The data is just THIS. Sitting in this chair, hearing the sound of the heater, seeing the white screen, feeling the tongue against the teeth…There's no data to refer to because it's just the FACT of this... there's no separate data to point to.

What you are referring to is the fact that

THIS is all here, and "me" with it (as it), all together.

...ie, there is no separation between this "me" (great to see the quotation marks!!) you are referring to, and the "THIS" that "...is all here", correct? There is no separation, anywhere, period. Right? I don’t like putting words in your mouth, but tell me if you are saying anything substantively different than that.

Yes, that's correct. It doesn't appear to have "stuck"... though something here is clearly different.

Another way to phrase the previous question(s) is, do you find any separation between this "you/awareness" you are seeing is the (obvious) case of everything and anything else?

If not, please LOOK and tell me about this "you/ awareness". Describe it.

If so, where is it (the "separation")?

If you're okay with this, I'd prefer to put off responding to those for a bit. In trying to answer them right now, there are just THOUGHTS tonight and not a KNOWING. There has been so much thinking, thinking, thinking for so long about this process of looking and seeing. Last night you said, essentially, "Hey, stop thinking, we're just going in"... and that seemed to flip a switch. It seems that the "pathless path" is the path. Though I don't know what it is and though it looks like "I" might already be on it ;)

Please let me know how things are going in your day to day after seeing what you have seen.

All was crystal clear yesterday, and today it is not clear in the same way. A seeing occurred which can't be unseen, though today it's not being seen with the vividness of yesterday. It was like a peek behind the curtain (to use a pretty inadequate metaphor). But also this: today I would be sitting in a meeting or talking with people and there would be a thought or a feeling and it would be noticed and with it was the knowledge that it wasn't mine or about ME.

Back to being confused ;)

D