Glimpses of non-separation

[ditti]

Hi Elad,

Just a note that I am going to start my silent retreat tomorrow - so won't be back on the forum before mid-April. I am still aiming to do the above exercises on the train on my way there and get back to you tomorrow though before I go offline :)

[ditti]

Hi Elad,

1) In your own time go through the all the senses, see if they contain/point to a self, i.e. is there a see'er in the seeing?

I have not found a seer in the seeing, a hearer in the hearing, a smeller in the smelling, a taster in the tasting, a feeler in the feeling. No controller or separate actor behind any of those activities of sensing. They just happen, unfold on their own account, in response to the flow of life around them.

2) Continue to look is there anything at all that could be a real self? If yes, what?

I can't pinpoint a separate doer, a separate overarching entity anywhere in my experience. Just a fluctuating - sometimes sharper, sometimes dimmer - sense of self, which really is only appearing in thoughts.

3) About the sense of self, where or "as what" does the deepest sense of self hide? What is being most deeply identified with as if it is the self?

I see my sense of self hiding in my thoughts. It comes up as a content of thought. For instance, I can see it clearly at times when my mind starts simulating an action I will do next. As though my mind was using the sense of self as a planning unit for the action that it simulates. It could be a small burst of imagination of a visual image of "self", i.e. the body-mind entity carrying out an action in imagination.
And what's most deeply identified with as if it was the self is awareness. The continuous stream of experience unfolding in awareness. The perception of experience as a flow. Which is quite funny because when I looked at each sense separately, none of them contained a sense of self. Yet combined together, my mind attaches the idea of "this is me", "this is the self" in top of it.

I have really appreciated your guidance so far Elad, and I feel happy that we got started before my retreat ended. Much-much gratitude! I have felt such wonderful deep openings with some of the exercises. I will go offline today for my retreat and won't be back until 13th April. Shall I message you when I'm back so that we can continue this inquiry together? :)

[Elad]

Hi Ditti, beautiful.

So a few things for the retreat.

1) Awareness - look at it when it fits in your flow. Can it in any way be found as something separate from experience? Can a "subject" (awareness) experiencing "objects" (experiences) be found? Or actually it is all one?

2) Is that "all one experience" in any way "Ditti"? Does it have Dittis hair color? Her tendency to be confident or anxious, easy going or intense? Does it wear the t-shirt Ditti is wearing? Or is it just what it is, impersonally, including the activity of thought-sensation that is conventionally called Ditti?

3) On your retreat, depending on the style/tradition, you might get instructions focused on taking some kind of control or responsiblity or becoming something/someone. This is all fine - on the conventional level we all keep developing skills, taking on roles, etc etc.

4) AND: If the sense of clarity that there is no real self, no real doer, gets lost in this practicing/role-taking and reactions to practicing/role-taking, whatever it is, just look: What controls the practicing? What controls the reactions to the practicing? What decides the reaction to whatever role/construct with whatever type of feeling and degree of identification? What controls what is actually experienced here-now? What experiences whatever responses comes to these kind of inquiries? Is there a self anywhere to be found doing any of it? These questions will all lead back to clarity of "just aware experience as one" - and the separate self as a story added after the fact, and a story that itself is unfolding without a self in control of it".

It's a pleasure doing this with you.

Enjoy the retreat have fun, may it be beneficial, and write me when you are back!

[ditti]

Lovely! Thanks for all this advice Elad, I'll keep them in mind. And lovely doing this with you. See you in 11 days :)

[ditti]

Hi Elad,

I'm back from my retreat and feel ready and excited to continue our direct pointing inquiry together :) I hope you've had a nice two weeks while I was away!

I have practiced with the exercises (1-2 & 4) from your last message both in sitting and walking mediation, and there were moments when the lack of an independent self felt so evident and tangible. A sense that none of my experience actually belongs to me, but belongs to life. I'm just witnessing life living/playonf itself out in and through me. Felt very magical and so easeful and liberating.

Looking forward to continuing this powerful way of inquiring further :)

[Elad]

Hi Ditti!

Good to hear from you and hear how things have moved in the retreat. So lets start/continue here: Answer all the questions I asked you 1/2/4 freshly and write me what is seen!

From Saturday I will be in retreat for 8 days... So we a couple of days before another break from our exchange here. Let's make the most of it :)

[ditti]

Hi Elad,

Good to hear from you too! :) And glad to hear that you yourself will have some time for practice and contemplation on a retreat shortly :)

Here are my experiences with respect to the latest inquiries:

1) Awareness - look at it when it fits in your flow. Can it in any way be found as something separate from experience? Can a "subject" (awareness) experiencing "objects" (experiences) be found? Or actually it is all one?

I can't see an awareness separate from my experience. I cannot split experience and the subject experiencing it into two separate things. I cannot find a subject anywhere.

2) Is that "all one experience" in any way "Ditti"? Does it have Dittis hair color? Her tendency to be confident or anxious, easy going or intense? Does it wear the t-shirt Ditti is wearing? Or is it just what it is, impersonally, including the activity of thought-sensation that is conventionally called Ditti?

The totality of the experience that arises in any moment doesn't look like, or feel like, Ditti. It has no apparent Ditti-ness. There is no Ditti in the experience right now. Nothing in the experience has the "qualities" or "sense" of Ditti right now.

4) AND: If the sense of clarity that there is no real self, no real doer, gets lost in this practicing/role-taking and reactions to practicing/role-taking, whatever it is, just look: What controls the practicing? What controls the reactions to the practicing? What decides the reaction to whatever role/construct with whatever type of feeling and degree of identification? What controls what is actually experienced here-now? What experiences whatever responses comes to these kind of inquiries? Is there a self anywhere to be found doing any of it? These questions will all lead back to clarity of "just aware experience as one" - and the separate self as a story added after the fact, and a story that itself is unfolding without a self in control of it".

Experience just comes in without active creation or invitation. Just keeps flowing into awareness on its own account. I can see no control, nor any controlling entity over what arises and is experienced. When I am trying to find the place of control and can't find it, I feel an ease and relaxation in my body. A sense of letting go and being okay with whatever arises. A sense of a burden falling off my shoulders.

[Elad]

Hello Ditti,

I'm back :) This sounds very clear. Whould you say it is experientially clear that there is no separate self in control? Are you ready to get the "final LU questions" that check the clarity of the insight? Or do you feel something is missing, if yes, what?

[ditti]

Hi Elad,

Welcome back! :)

Whould you say it is experientially clear that there is no separate self in control? Are you ready to get the "final LU questions" that check the clarity of the insight? Or do you feel something is missing, if yes, what?

At times it does feel experientally clear, yes. But I feel ready for the final questions yet. Something does feel missing. I can see that there is no-self in certain moments of inquiry, but it has not become an integral part of my everyday perception. It hasn’t consolidated or rippled into my everday experience if that makes sense. I have the idea that I need to see it again and again and again before it becomes an integral way of looking for me.

[Elad]

So, looking at it in terms of "is it continuous" inherently implies what? What is it that could stay in touch with something all the time? Does such a thing/self exist?

Is the insight that Santa Claus is fiction alive for you all the time during the day? And assuming it is not, does it mean the insight that Santa Claus is a fiction needs to be deepend?

Are you willing to let go of the expectation of some continuous new state to live in? If this is dissapointing, are you willing to face dissapointment for the truth?

What is assumed to be this self that is not awake in a continuous way and could become awake in a continuous way?

Not asking you to answer from thinking and logic. Really look, many times, until it is completely clear to you. And answer.

[ditti]

Hi Elad,

Today's inquiry is coming your way :)

So, looking at it in terms of "is it continuous" inherently implies what? What is it that could stay in touch with something all the time? Does such a thing/self exist?

I was observing the experience of awareness when trying to answer these questions. And whether awareness can continuously hold something. I saw that the experience of awareness is constantly moving, it’s shrinking and expanding, it’s shifting from object to object. I can see how no-self can also not be a continuous experience present in awareness at all times.

I also saw that I couldn’t find a thing called awareness that exists independently from the object that it holds at any moment. And therefore there is nothing “real” that can hold the realization at all times either.

Is the insight that Santa Claus is fiction alive for you all the time during the day? And assuming it is not, does it mean the insight that Santa Claus is a fiction needs to be deepend?

Great example haha. With the Santa Claus example it’s easy for me to see that the belief of his non-existence needs no deepening for it to be true or more of an insight.

Are you willing to let go of the expectation of some continuous new state to live in? If this is dissapointing, are you willing to face dissapointment for the truth?

I’m looking at my experience to see what the thought of letting go of such an expectation gives rise to. It appears easy to let go of that expectation. No strong response to it arises, in fact, there’s a sense of opening and relief that arises. I thought I’d be disappointed at this idea, but there’s no real sense of disappointment present right now.

What is assumed to be this self that is not awake in a continuous way and could become awake in a continuous way?

The assumption is in thoughts and it is an expected change in the quality of experience or in the lense through which experience is experienced. I can see that there is no self separate from experience and thus no self to become awake in a continuous way. But the constant flux of experience continues and is looked at through different colored lenses depending on the mind state at any time. But I can also see that that is not me. It is just a flux of experience. It’s not mine. So it doesn’t matter whether it is an experience looked at from an awakened perspective or a non-awakened perspective, because it non-substantial and will continue to be in flux and will continue to be not me.

[Elad]

That's right, that's clear seeing.


Please answer all of the following questions in one message and make sure that you copy each question before the answer so it is easy to connect Q's & A's. Look freshly at each one and answer as simple and clear as possible from direct experience. Be 100% true to what is directly experienced. Once you have answered them we will talk about how to continue. Discovery and integration in the conventional life continues forever, and we will talk about how to move in the most supprortive way with that. Take as much time as you want.




1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?



2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.



3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue?



4) What was the moment(s) where clarity clicked; describe what happened.



5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control (separately).



6) What makes things happen? How does it work?



7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.



8) Anything to add?

[Elad]

The site has been down a lot lately. If you need to get to me and the site is down write to

eladexplore1111@gmail.com