Sage

[Sage]

Good evening dear Elad, I hope you are well!

just can't say that there is no self"

Right now - what is that which cannot say it?

Is it a sensation?
A contraction?
A location in the body?

It's a thought

Stay with that.

No arguing, this is not about intellectual conviction.

Only stay, look.

Yes, i'll try

Also, how du you know you cant say it?
Isn't that just a belief?

Yes, it's a thought I believe in.

If you stop buying into habitual beliefs, then what?

That I see things for what they really are

No hurry to say yes or no, this or that.

See beliefs for no more then they are.

Then what remains?

I'm tempted to say that only what is in the sensory experience remains but I'm not sure if that's what you meant.

Thanks for your time!

[Elad]

Hi Sage :)

No hurry to say yes or no, this or that.

See beliefs for no more then they are.

Then what remains?

I'm tempted to say that only what is in the sensory experience remains but I'm not sure if that's what you meant.
Thanks for your time!

Is that direct experience or belief?

Does thinking stop to exist if thoughts are not believed?

Something else:

What materials exist in your language, in Audio, about awakening?

[Sage]

Is that direct experience or belief?

Direct experience

Does thinking stop to exist if thoughts are not believed?

No, no, thoughts too, of course!

Any material on awakening in my language? I have no idea, never heard it. I think there are so many, serious and otherwise, I wouldn't know how to choose..

[Elad]

Is that direct experience or belief?

Direct experience

Does thinking stop to exist if thoughts are not believed?

No, no, thoughts too, of course!

Any material on awakening in my language? I have no idea, never heard it. I think there are so many, serious and otherwise, I wouldn't know how to choose..

For your next pointer I need you to have an audio to listen to, ideally one where the non existence of a separate self is being pointed to. Choose one, or send me a list of some serious ones, and we will choose one together.

[Sage]

Good evening Elad, I found a video by Elisa Martinelli, I hope it's ok!!
Do you need me to put the link here?

[Elad]

Good evening Elad, I found a video by Elisa Martinelli, I hope it's ok!!
Do you need me to put the link here?

Ok, I don't know her but it will do...

Here is the pointer: As you listen, don't focus on if you agree or don't, if you understand or don't, if "you have realized what she speaks about" or have not. Instead focus on just experiencing in real time what happens in the field of experience as you listen. Thoughts, sensations, movements, impulses... Just watch that.

Thoughts about understanding or not, agreeing or not, etc etc, will probably come and that is fine. Just don't focus on if they are true or not, focus on the movement of experience as a whole, just seeing what happens in terms of emergence and reactions...

Do this for a while and write me what has been seen.

As always, I don't ask you to write me what you *think about* or how you *evaluate* what has been seen. Just what has been seen.

[Sage]

Hi Elad,

As I listened to the video, I mainly noticed the attempt to understand the content.
At times, there was even a bit of emotion as I identified with what was being said.
The experience was fairly ordinary: listening to the words, trying to understand, and experiencing some emotional reactions.

[Elad]

Hi Elad,

As I listened to the video, I mainly noticed the attempt to understand the content.
At times, there was even a bit of emotion as I identified with what was being said.
The experience was fairly ordinary: listening to the words, trying to understand, and experiencing some emotional reactions.

Good. Do it some more. Can be same video, can be others. Re-read the instructions from last message. Write again. Try and be as precise as possible describing what happens, not thinking about it or evaluating it, just describing.

[Sage]

Good. Do it some more. Can be same video, can be others. Re-read the instructions from last message. Write again. Try and be as precise as possible describing what happens, not thinking about it or evaluating it, just describing.

While listening to the audio, thoughts automatically come to mind (such as "I understand this," "I don't understand that," attempts to reason to grasp what he's talking about, thoughts of discouragement, etc.).
I see that I have no control over the flow of thoughts, neither over what takes me away nor what brings my attention back to listening.
My attention shifts constantly, sometimes following the audio, sometimes going into my thoughts.
Meanwhile, there are sounds in the environment and physical sensations.
All this seems to happen by itself.
And almost immediately, the feeling of "I'm listening," "I'm thinking," emerges, as if there were an "I" doing it.

[Elad]

While listening to the audio, thoughts automatically come to mind (such as "I understand this," "I don't understand that," attempts to reason to grasp what he's talking about, thoughts of discouragement, etc.).
I see that I have no control over the flow of thoughts, neither over what takes me away nor what brings my attention back to listening.
My attention shifts constantly, sometimes following the audio, sometimes going into my thoughts.
Meanwhile, there are sounds in the environment and physical sensations.
All this seems to happen by itself.

Yes!

And almost immediately, the feeling of "I'm listening," "I'm thinking," emerges, as if there were an "I" doing it.

You call it a feeling. What does this feeling consist of in direct experience? Where is it located?

Do not accept a vague answer. Look for the description that hits exactly where and what it is.

[Sage]

You call it a feeling. What does this feeling consist of in direct experience? Where is it located?

It is a thought, it is not localized, it is nothing traceable by the senses but it is not a verbal thought of the type "I am this, I am that", it is more of a knowledge but still a thought.

[Elad]

it is more of a knowledge but still a thought.

What is the evidence it is "knowledge" rather then just "belief" ?

[Elad]

Everytime you think you know something, or something is deeply your experience try asking:


Could this be just a belief with no evidence, happening habitually by itself?

What happens if you stay true to this not knowing and don't try to make it go away?

Could this not knowing be more true, more sincere, then the claims that seem to know what you are and how things are for you?

[Sage]

Hi Elad, sorry for the long delay in responding. I had a situation that needed my attention, and my research took a back seat for a while.

What is the evidence it is "knowledge" rather then just "belief" ?

There is no evidence that this is knowledge.. it's a belief.

Everytime you think you know something, or something is deeply your experience try asking:


Could this be just a belief with no evidence, happening habitually by itself?

Absolutely yes. I have the feeling that knowledge doesn't actually exist at all.

What happens if you stay true to this not knowing and don't try to make it go away?

Relaxation. Opening. Fear.

Could this not knowing be more true, more sincere, then the claims that seem to know what you are and how things are for you?

Yes, definitely.

Thanks🙏

[Elad]

Beautiful!

Lets look a little more at thought...

What happens if you just ignore what thoughts say?

I am not saying to repress thoughts or try to make them go away.

I am only saying to ignore them, not treat them as significant.

Which, because it is not the habit, can be helpful to do actively. Ignore ignore ignore.

Even sit still for periods of time and just do this, silently saying to every thought that comes: ignore, ignore, ignore.

What happens?