Seeking and listening

[poppyseed]

Hey Lucas
Are you feeling better? How is life treating you?
Love
Rali

[Nativo1979]

Hi Raly,

Thank you very much for checking on.
I'm feeling better now and will check the exercises provided tomorrow and send my reply.
I hope everything is going well on your side.
Love
Lucas

[poppyseed]

Hey Lucas...

[poppyseed]

Hi Lucas

I enjoy working with people who are highly motivated for this and want to do exercises/look at questions and stay in the correspondence more or less every day until we finish. This is not about making it rigidly so, exceptions (vacations, sickness, times where something else is called for, etc) are fine and in the end we will be guided by a flow beyond our decisions and imagination. So what I am checking in with here, is if this type of engagement feels right and is possible for you? Are you still burning to find answers??
Love
Rali

[Nativo1979]

Hi Raly,

Please apologize for not being able to reply to your messages, I'm still burning for answer and for finally been able to see.

I really appreciate the time and effort you put on to guide me and I don't take it lightly.
After all our conversations I feel I can share with you how crazy the last couple of months have been and why I have not been able to respond in a timely manner (please don't take these as excuses).

At the end of April I was made redundant of the job I have been doing for the last 14 years. It was a shock (the company decided to close the NZ office), and generated a very stressful situation, but our conversations and starting to see that there isn't and "I" that can control any of these situation was very liberating.

A couple of week after this I got really sick (I never get sick, I can't even remember last time is was sick), and after a few days when I felt I was getting better, I got very sick again and have to take more time to rest and recover. Just now, while I'm writing this, I'm thinking that maybe the being sick is just another way from the "I"/mind to try to distract from the fact that there is no "I". Could it be possible?

Finally yesterday I was feeling fully recovered and ready to focus on the exercises you provided and send you my findings, I cleaned my afternoon schedule, but in the morning while driving my wife to work and my kids to school, under a pretty heavy storm, the car skid in the wet road and we end up in the other side of the road crashing against a fence.
Very luckily non of use suffered any injuries, but the car is very damaged and probably will be write off by the insurance.
Just after the crash. I saw that in those few seconds while the car was spinning out of control and until it hit the fence. My hand were moving the steering wheel, but there wasn't anyone telling them what to do, "I" wasn't commanding them to steer to one side or the other to try to control the car.

I will not be able to reply tomorrow as I will be away taking my son to a football game in a near city, BU I can reply on Sunday NZ time.

I hope you are still keen to be my guide, but I completely understand if not.
Thanks
Lucas

[poppyseed]

Hi Lucas,
No need to apologize. Nothing is out of place. In the lack of information (and not only) we project our story over experience. As long as there is a burning desire, there is no deadline.
The unravelling of this illusion doesn’t follow any timeline, plan, or sequence. It happens exactly as it happens, or it doesn’t—yet. What matters is not how long it takes, but that even now, the lie of control is cracking under the weight of lived experience.
The redundancy, the illness, the crash – these are three sharp cuts in the illusion of control.
Each one was a doorway—did you see? “Difficult” moments provide a perfect opportunity for things to be seen clearly.

My hands were moving the steering wheel, but there wasn’t anyone telling them what to do.

This is gold. Pure, direct seeing.
Did a “you” steer the car? Did even your hands do the steering?
Or was “steering” just happening?
You didn’t plan it. You didn’t command it. And yet it happened—flawlessly, precisely, with no one behind it. That’s not a fluke. That’s every movement. Every word. Every thought. All of it—just this spontaneous unfolding.
Even the sickness—was it a distraction? Or was it just what appeared?
Is there even anything that needs to be distracted from?
There is no self hiding behind illness. No self revealed by insight. No self to lose a job, and no one to awaken.
Just this. Just this. Just this.
You haven’t lost anything, Lucas.
There was never anything to hold onto.
Sunday is perfect. I’m here. And I’m not going anywhere. This is about an effortless effort. Let’s keep going, as if we never stopped.
Love
Rali

[Nativo1979]

Hi Raly
Thank you very much for your kindness and dedication

The redundancy, the illness, the crash – these are three sharp cuts in the illusion of control.
Each one was a doorway—did you see? “Difficult” moments provide a perfect opportunity for things to be seen clearly.

"Yes, I can see on those difficult moments where "I/Lucas" didn't do anything wrong and anyway bad/difficult things happened. I would have thought that I could have plan on how to avoid these bad moments to happen, but in reality there is no one there to control what's happening or how to avoid something to happen"

My hands were moving the steering wheel, but there wasn’t anyone telling them what to do.
Did a “you” steer the car? Did even your hands do the steering?[/code]o"
Or was “steering” just happening?

"No, "I" didn't ordered my hands to steer, not even my hands do in it, it just happened, and during that slow motion moment felt like if everything was flowing with no one there planning or ordering what to d

Even the sickness—was it a distraction? Or was it just what appeared?
Is there even anything that needs to be distracted from?

" I can see that there is no one that needs to be distracted, and nothing to be distracted from, just this moment happening now"

There is no self hiding behind illness. No self revealed by insight. No self to lose a job, and no one to awaken.
Just this. Just this. Just this.
You haven’t lost anything, Lucas.
There was never anything to hold onto.

It feels so liberating, like removing a huge weight, realizing that there is nothing to be lost or to hold on, and no one having to control

Thanks Raly

[poppyseed]

Hi Lucas,
That… is everything.
You didn’t understand it—you saw it. You didn’t figure it out—you couldn’t deny it. The hands turned. The sickness passed. The crash happened. And where was the self?
Nowhere.
The idea of “me” is always late to the party—showing up after everything’s already happened, pretending it planned it all. But it didn’t steer. It didn’t get sick. It didn’t lose a job. And it didn’t survive the crash.
It never existed.
The reason, I wanted an example of a decision that you would normally consider that you’ve made, was to look entirely in thought content where cause and effect “live” and see that even there there’s no “you” making a decision. It was just one event leading to another, leading to another, with “actions” based on previous conditioning. The thought “decision is made” is layered on top of other thoughts/beliefs/descriptions of what has happened before.
Why does the wind blow? It just blows. Yes we can say it happens as a result of previous events but there’s no entity “wind” that does the blowing. There is no wind that decides to blow. It’s just language.
What is “moving of the hands” in DE? We’ve seen that it’s just a sensation, labelled “hands moving” + colour/shape labelled “hands moving”. So, what makes the sensations to appear? What makes seeing to appear? LOOK! Is there anything that causes anything to appear? Do cause and effect exist outside of thought content? Thought comes to describe that things are happening and why they are happening, but in DE things are just happening. Is the description/explanation/label needed for things to happen?

And now the weight lifts—not because something has been solved, but because it’s seen: there never was a weight. Just thoughts. Just sensations. Just stories. Just this.
Can you see how relentless the attempt to narrate it is?
How it still tries to sneak in as the one recognizing there’s no self?
So now, stay with that:
No one to lose. No one to find. Nothing to hold. Nothing to let go.
Tell me, in this moment—right now—
what’s missing?
What’s not already complete?
Stay raw. Stay honest. Let’s keep cutting through even the thinnest layers that remain.
We can have a look at time and memories if you want...
Love
Rali

[Nativo1979]

Hi Raly,

Thanks so much for your explanations and insights.

I noticed today while I was playing football with my team, there was a moment while being in that state that they call being "on the zone, (similar to the situation on the crash) where everything looks like in slow motion where a really good control and pass happened without any previous thought or planification, it just happened.

What is “moving of the hands” in DE? We’ve seen that it’s just a sensation, labelled “hands moving” + colour/shape labelled “hands moving”. So, what makes the sensations to appear? What makes seeing to appear?

"Nothing makes the "sensation" to appear or "seeing" to appear it just happens

LOOK! Is there anything that causes anything to appear?

No, there is nothing that causes anything to appear, it just appear.

Do cause and effect exist outside of thought content? Thought comes to describe that things are happening and why they are happening, but in DE things are just happening. Is the description/explanation/label needed for things to happen?

No, the description/explanation/label are not needed for things to happen, they just happen.

And now the weight lifts—not because something has been solved, but because it’s seen: there never was a weight. Just thoughts. Just sensations. Just stories. Just this.
Can you see how relentless the attempt to narrate it is?
How it still tries to sneak in as the one recognizing there’s no self?

So now, stay with that:
No one to lose. No one to find. Nothing to hold. Nothing to let go.
Tell me, in this moment—right now—
what’s missing?
What’s not already complete?

Nothing is missing or is not already complete, there is nothing to find or complete, just this moment now exists.
Stay raw. Stay honest. Let’s keep cutting through even the thinnest layers that remain.

We can have a look at time and memories if you want

... Yes, please.
Love
Lucas

[poppyseed]

Hi Lucas

…everything looked in slow motion where a really good control and pass happened without any previous thought or planification, it just happened.

Yes. Because there never was a thinker/planner. The mind was temporarily bypassed—and still, life flowed perfectly.
Not just “fine”—but flawlessly.
This wasn’t “flow state.” It was reality unfiltered.
What if that’s always the case… and only thought makes it seem otherwise?
Is there a self—anywhere—in anything you just described?
Or has it always been a thought + senses + a story?
Look right now.

OK, let’s have a look at time as the continuity of self is rooted in time.
There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?
How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?
How long does the ‘now’ last?
Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Past and memory go hand-in-hand as a memory is believed to be referring to something that has happened in the past. Memory thoughts are also thoughts about a future that may or may not happen based on past experiences. A future thought is a thought that projects an idea about a future based on past memory. The majority of us ‘live’ in past or future, but when are those seeming memory thoughts actually taking place?

Sit quietly somewhere for 10 or so minutes and watch the arising thoughts. Notice the thoughts that contain content that refer to a past or future. Please don’t go to thought explanation, but just look at what the direct actual experience is.

What is memory exactly? What is the memory ‘made of’? Is there any difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
WHEN does the memory actually appear?
How is it known that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?
WHEN does the future thought appear?
Is there a difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about the past and a thought about the future.
What is the difference between the thoughts about past and future in actual experience? If there is a difference, how is that difference known exactly?
Can a past or future be known? Or all that is known are the AE of thoughts labelled as ‘memory’ that are appearing now?


In actual experience:-
Where is last week? Where is yesterday? Where is five minutes ago?
Where is tomorrow morning? Where is next week?
Can you find any of these? Or only ‘memory’ thoughts about these appearing now?

Look! Does memory carry time? Can anything be found outside of this moment?
Be exact. Let’s finish this.
Love
Rali

[Nativo1979]

Hey Raly
I hope everything is going well
I just wanted to let you know that I will reply tomorrow.
love
lucas

[poppyseed]

:)

[Nativo1979]

Hi Raly,

Sorry for the delay on responding, I leave in a farm outside the city and sometimes we have internet connection issues, I was not able to access the site for the last 4 days.

Yes. Because there never was a thinker/planner. The mind was temporarily bypassed—and still, life flowed perfectly.
Not just “fine”—but flawlessly.
This wasn’t “flow state.” It was reality unfiltered.
What if that’s always the case… and only thought makes it seem otherwise?
Is there a self—anywhere—in anything you just described?

No, no self at all in anything described.

Or has it always been a thought + senses + a story?

Yes, there is always a thought, a story and a sensation.

B

ut is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

No, I can't find any experience

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

no, the only "moment" that can be experienced is the present "moment" .

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

No, can only experience a present event while the sensation is happens, there is only now

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

There is no way to experience any movement of the present.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

No, I can't, as the present moment is all there is, there is no start or finish for the this moment.

How long does the ‘now’ last?

The present moment "now" has no start or finish, so it's not possible to determine how long it last.

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end

? As before the present moment doesn't have a start or end.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

There is not an exactly moment when now become past, just a thought based on past experience.

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

It's just a thought creating a memory based on a past experience

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Only thoughts about time, the only moment that exists is now

Past and memory go hand-in-hand as a memory is believed to be referring to something that has happened in the past. Memory thoughts are also thoughts about a future that may or may not happen based on past experiences. A future thought is a thought that projects an idea about a future based on past memory. The majority of us ‘live’ in past or future, but when are those seeming memory thoughts actually taking place?

Those memory thoughts are based in past experiences but happening now, in the present moment.

What is memory exactly? What is the memory ‘made of’? Is there any difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

The memory is a thought based on a mix of past experiences, other thoughts and stories. Looks like there is no difference between a memory and a general thought

WHEN does the memory actually appear?

In the present moment

How is it known that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

We don't know if it refers to something that has really happened as is a mix of past experiences, other thoughts and a stories. Memory thoughts are a construction and no one know if they really happened.

Then, look at a thought about the future.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?

These are made of thoughts and stories of what could or could not happen in the future

WHEN does the future thought appear?

In the present moment.
Is there a difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought? No difference

How is it known that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

as with memory it cannot be know if it will happen.

Then let’s compare a thought about the past and a thought about the future.
What is the difference between the thoughts about past and future in actual experience? If there is a difference, how is that difference known exactly?

There is no difference between them they are just thoughts

Can a past or future be known?

Or all that is known are the AE of thoughts labelled as ‘memory’ that are appearing now? No, past or future cannot be known, all that is know are the actual experiences of thoughts labelled as memory that appear now.


I

n actual experience:-
Where is last week? Where is yesterday? Where is five minutes ago?

They don't exist, we can only experience the now.

Where is tomorrow morning? Where is next week?

same they don't exist in actual experience

Can you find any of these? Or only ‘memory’ thoughts about these appearing now?

I can only find memory thoughts about them, can't find any of those in AE

Look! Does memory carry time? Can anything be found outside of this moment?

No, memory doesn't carry time, only this moment exist. "Memory" is time, and time is just a construct/thought to organize experiences into a story. Past and future are just thoughts happening on the present moment. Every experience, every thought are happening "now". There is no "I in the moment", only this moment now.

Love

Lucas

[poppyseed]

Hi Lucas

Those memory thoughts are based in past experiences but happening now, in the present moment.

Where is last week? Where is yesterday? Where is five minutes ago?

They don't exist, we can only experience the now.

So how is it known that the thoughts are based on past experiences? In DE there is only this, layered with general thoughts/a story about "past experiences", happening right NOW. All that is ever experienced is a never ending, never changing this. It's like looking at a lava lamp. The wax may seem to change shape, and the shapes it seems to take may seem to be present one moment, and absent the next. But all that is known is the wax. Nothing actually changed and nothing was ever born or lost, although it may have seemed to. All that is known is this - nothing can be added to it, nor taken away. Change can exist only as a story about the shapes that are followed through time/the storyline. If you look at an abstract painting, you start to see shapes etc within the painting itself. Those shapes aren’t really there…but they SEEM (appear) to be. So from that perspective...do the shapes really exist? It is thought that divides this into different abstractions and gives them objectivity via labels (colour, sound, thought, smell, taste, sensation), dimensions, meaning and purpose and then further overlays these with stories about them.

There is no ‘I in the moment’, only this moment now

Yes! No self. No time. No past. No future. No narrative needed. Just this—unfolding effortlessly.
And now look closer:
Who just wrote that?
Where did the response come from?
What decided to answer?
Did anything—at all—pause to create it?
No planning. No timeline. No witness.
Yet this shows up.

Here’s the edge now, and I want you to press it:
You see clearly that time is story, memory is thought, and there is no self to be found in experience.
But what continues to believe it has to “live” this clarity? What sees no self?
What keeps subtly claiming, “I have to integrate this”?
There’s no time to integrate. No self to do it. Nothing missing.
So what still pretends to do this inquiry and what could possibly pass through the gate?
Right now—before the next word forms:
Who is here? What is left to search for?
On a “practical” level - is there anything else that you want to explore – painful emotions, space, likes and dislikes, others, habits…?

Love
Rali

[poppyseed]

:))