I have a pain in my face with Spirituality, I’m going home.

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Truthfull
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Re: I have a pain in my face with Spirituality, I’m going home.

Postby Truthfull » Fri Jan 17, 2025 8:29 pm

....Under this feeling is also shame and anger.

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Elad
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Re: I have a pain in my face with Spirituality, I’m going home.

Postby Elad » Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:20 pm

OKAY to 1-3? Moving forward are you willing to commit to such dedication, respect and precision for the questions?

Answer
Yes, I will commit to points 1,2,3.
Question
Weather you have connected to such a spirit here so far or not, are you up for doing it from here?

Answer
Yes, I am up for it.

Ok great, I am aiming for both of us giving it our very best then.

Question
1) Rephrase: Do you believe you are/have a self? Where are you at in terms of seeing through the belief in self?

Answer
Yes, I believe I have a self. I am answering the question not you. I have bills to pay, I have work to go to. I have children to rase. I am. Now when I look for the I, I can't find a solid thing out their. But the belief has not dropped. I notice that thoughts make up a big part of the I sense.


Okay, and yes, conventionally designated Dennis and his conventionally designated responsibilities are certainly not in question here. So what is even worth questioning?

1) In what sense is the self/I even worth questioning? What kind of belief in self feels worth questioning to you?

It will help this exploration if you really clarify that. As long as we question something that doesn't really feel meaningful to question for you, this might make the inquiry less intuitive and natural.


I also comes out strong when I'm triggered. This is why I am working on fetter 4/5 Reactivity. Feeling the squirmy feelings and staying in the gap. I think this is helping but its early days. Your earlier messages triggered me and the belief is: Its unfair to be held to account. I'm now just sitting with the feelings and the statement with outgoing into future.

Sounds like valuable to work on reactivity this way.

For those of us who grew up with complex and difficult and unhappy relationships with our fathers, where it was hard to trust and hard to bond and hard to work with and through the dynamics of healthy masculinity, from competition to cooperation, this stuff very easily come up with people we go to for guidence. Especially if they directly or indirectly challenge or call out on or defiance, negativity, entitlement, relationship (-self-)sabotage, underlying fear and insecurity, etc. It takes one to know one, Dennis. At the same time people as aware as you and me can intuit, that this is the kind of stuff we need to be able to be part of and recieve, and then be able to not repel and then feel all there is to be felt in truth (including anger and shame and vulnerability and love and longing and grief and much more..), in order to ease in to the dignity, connectednes and grace that we have potential for.

When you in a sense allow me to have the guide role for now, it is only natural stuff related to this will come up, especially when I challenge or direct you. We aim to see with clarity and care what happens in this, without buying into projections and acting out on them, maintaining the respectful and constructive relating with eyes on the goal.

Last thing for now, I say "the ROLE of guide" on purpose, accentuating that this just an agreement for what roles we are agreeing to take for now (and that can be broken in any moment where one of us don't want it anymore), not about that I am ultimately one way and you are ultimately another, but about that if we can each do our role our very best here, of guide and guidee, the result might be liberating and awakening.
With love,
Elad

Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.

- Kahlil Gibran

One gets there by being there.

- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)

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Elad
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Re: I have a pain in my face with Spirituality, I’m going home.

Postby Elad » Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:29 pm

Also, practice some more "noticing the gap between thoughts". Do that during the day several times, when it fits the flow. And an easygoing little curiosity alongside it, from time to time, how it plays into the sense of self.
With love,
Elad

Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.

- Kahlil Gibran

One gets there by being there.

- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)

Truthfull
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2024 3:49 am

Re: I have a pain in my face with Spirituality, I’m going home.

Postby Truthfull » Sun Jan 19, 2025 6:31 pm

Question
In what sense is the self/I even worth questioning? What kind of belief in self feels worth questioning to you?
Answer

I don't feel like questioning the I sense. That's my feeling. I'm sick of it. If I think about what makes it work questioning, its suffering, negative thoughts, blocked emotions. It feel like a false sense of self keeps these stuck or reactive. I want to question the I so I can be free of my conditioning. My limits, my worries, my anxiety, etc. As a simple example, I forget peoples names and it makes work awkward. I meet people and I cant say "Hi John". It's Ehh, what's his name, shit. My mind is blank. So I just say Hi and think it would be much better to say Hi John or morning John. People like to hear their name. It helps with bounding and connecting, etc, etc. I am broken and it's bee since I was a kid. This makes me want to look at the I to see if its holding this in place as a belief and a comment on my limits. When you piss in the clean water, no amount of adding sugar removes the piss.
I will keep doing the "Reaction, Clear I statement, Gap, Feelings/Thoughts/Emotions Practice.

Best
Denis

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Elad
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Re: I have a pain in my face with Spirituality, I’m going home.

Postby Elad » Mon Jan 20, 2025 12:43 pm

Dennis, reading your last message, my strong sense is that a focused inquiry into the nature and existence of self is not for you for now. You don’t want it. And equally important maybe more importenty, both what you say and how you say it gives me a sense that a holistic approach, that includes psychological work, is what will benefit you now.


So here are the options I am op for:


- We can schedule live sessions and work together. I am a psychologist and this is my livelihood and for pay. If you want to look more into that, write me at eladexplore1111@gmail.com

- weather you chose to do that or not I recommend you to read the book "What I Couldn't Tell My Therapist" by Michelle May. It includes descriptions of certain dynamics I think will be helpful to you, and that are not described by most nondual teachers nor by the majority of therapists.

- I think it is probably very good you are at Vinces meetings. Lots of what he does and how he is supports psychological healing.

- You and I can work on LU again if/when (a) your whole perspective genuinely transforms and is less dominated by devaluing/black painful attitudes, first and foremost to yourself, which I think calls for understanding the dynamics that unconsciously drive that, and (b) you have a genuine curiosity and availability to explore the fundamental nature and existence of self, not in order to eliviate psychological pain and problems, but because it interests you in itself.

- If you disagree with my attitude to LU work, I can ask for another guide for you at the guide central.
With love,
Elad

Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.

- Kahlil Gibran

One gets there by being there.

- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)

Truthfull
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2024 3:49 am

Re: I have a pain in my face with Spirituality, I’m going home.

Postby Truthfull » Mon Jan 20, 2025 9:11 pm

Hi Elad,

I’m disappointed to hear you’re not up for guiding me anymore. Particularly after we just spend the last few posts agreeing the approach going forward.

Saying “I just don’t want it” is not true and a projection.

I think there is a communications issue and yes maybe we are not suited. These things happen. Would you be open to the possibility that I have no Interest in questioning the I because it’s not needed now. I found it useful to re read our first few posts on page 1.

I think a connection and good communication is important for this process, especially in this limited communication format.

Thanks for your time to date. 👍🏼.

Denis

Truthfull
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2024 3:49 am

Re: I have a pain in my face with Spirituality, I’m going home.

Postby Truthfull » Mon Jan 20, 2025 10:37 pm

Hi Elad,

I have asked Marius to take over guiding me. He has agreed. I assume there is a handover procedure that will now happen.

Thanks again for your time.
Denis

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Elad
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Re: I have a pain in my face with Spirituality, I’m going home.

Postby Elad » Tue Jan 21, 2025 9:48 am

Hi Elad,

I have asked Marius to take over guiding me. He has agreed. I assume there is a handover procedure that will now happen.

Thanks again for your time.
Denis


All right. Best of luck to you.
With love,
Elad

Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.

- Kahlil Gibran

One gets there by being there.

- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)

User avatar
Elad
Posts: 2385
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:25 am

Re: I have a pain in my face with Spirituality, I’m going home.

Postby Elad » Tue Jan 21, 2025 11:48 am

Adding: I don't disagree with what you write about yourself in the last messages. For me to continue working with you with these dynamics, at this time, it would have felt appropriate to do in live holistic sessions, working also with all the emotional and relational dynamics, and naturally allow the process to return to direct inquiry into nature of self (what LU is aimed at) when/if it became natural. And maybe that work would be what would do the "last push" also in terms of seeing through self, "indirectly". Sounds like you and Marius have developed a connection through live meetings, that is more fluid like that, and that the way you both feel up for interacting, is a better fit for you now. Again, best of luck.
With love,
Elad

Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.

- Kahlil Gibran

One gets there by being there.

- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)


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