RaamS

[indianguy]

Dear Lubo,

I guess the might is still fighting. I'll try to invite this set of questions to also just calm down and try again:)

"Is there a me running the show"? - producing visual field?
producing knowing of the visual field?
Everything is here effortlessly.

Now the same with the eyes closed, notice the experience of sensations, energies - is there "me" doing tha?
The knowing of the experiences, without me?

I'm trying to set aside ideas of "how it should be", and to just see what is here.

Experiences are just effortlessly present. Even "knowing" feels like too much of a word - the experiences are here. It is like there is no differences between there being experiences, and the knowing that there is an experience of a sensation.

They are just present.

"Where am I in all this?"

I just know that these experiences are here - unable to say anything else. I'm not doing experience.

Love,
Raam

[Lubo]

Hi dear Raam,

you are there.
Just wrong quesstion keeps you to not see.
Look hare:

xperiences are just effortlessly present. Even "knowing" feels like too much of a word - the experiences are here. It is like there is no differences between there being experiences, and the knowing that there is an experience of a sensation.

They are just present.

"Where am I in all this?"

Change this question with - Is there a "me" at all in all this?

[indianguy]

Dear Lubo,

Change this question with - Is there a "me" at all in all this?

I guess I can conceptually explain the difference between me and I - where me is a limited, small, separate "object" that can be hurt, and I us the vast presence.

But when looking experientially, it feels a little confusing - could you please tell me as to how I can differentiate between them when looking? Sorry to bring this up, I wanted to be sure.

Until then I will ask the version of the question you have given, based on my understanding.

Thank you so much for guiding me with this.

Sending you much love,
Raam

[indianguy]

I guess I can conceptually explain the difference between me and I - where me is a limited, small, separate "object" that can be hurt, and I us the vast presence.

Another way I try to look for a "me" is to look for the subject of object of my sentences. If i say "I felt so bad when that person said that", I try to see who is the one who feels that.

But it is not possible to always do that, I'm only able to look that way when there's a strong feeling that something is happening with me.

Is this okay? Should I look a different way?

If you could please suggest way way to differentiate between the "I" and "me" in an experience level, it will help, Lubo.

Love,
Raam

[Lubo]

Hi dear Raam,
Is there are me in all This?
Or there is only what?
Look?
Forget about " I"and "me'
these are just labels, mind is trying to put them somwhere

I

I felt so bad when that person said that"

Ok. Notice the part that feels bad right now?
And now notice the experience of separation becouse there is this unhappy part and the rest ofbthe divinity?
Now allow the Deity to make love to make sex with this unhappy part?
And notice how this part feels accrpted, pleased and loved?

Love,
Lubo

[indianguy]

Dear Lubo,

Is there are me in all This?
Or there is only what?
Look?

There is a knowing of what's happening, there are feelings and emotions about some of the things that are happening. I don't know what else - maybe there isn't anything else, but why does it feel like I don't know?

I don't know why I am hesitating so much to admit that there isn't a me - why am I not sure enough?

Forget about " I"and "me'
these are just labels, mind is trying to put them somwhere

Yes, Lubo.

Ok. Notice the part that feels bad right now?
And now notice the experience of separation becouse there is this unhappy part and the rest ofbthe divinity?
Now allow the Deity to make love to make sex with this unhappy part?
And notice how this part feels accrpted, pleased and loved?

Since at this moment, I don't have any such emotion, I had to refer to past experiences - there is some memory of feeling bad, etc.
I guess I can say that, by even noticing that the neutral presence/Deity is also present here, there can be a lot of relief. I will definitely try the whole thing the next time any such feeling of separation comes up, Lubo.

Love,
Raam

[Lubo]

Hi dear Raam,

I don't know why I am hesitating so much to admit that there isn't a me - why am I not sure enough?

OK. What thoughts are holding you with?
This investigation is passing through your pain - guilt ,fighting, fears, blood and pus, through the dirty linen.
God is immediately behind them.
No one says this awakening is easy.
It's easy actually, but it's hard to see how pure and divine everything is here.
Let's start with the thoughts.
You are free from absolutely every thought, you are free from all the thoughts of the world, just as a widower is free from his wife.
Now your job is to see at your direct experience,
see what is the experience of being absolutely free from thoughts?

Go, I am with you,
Lubo

[indianguy]

Dear Lubo,

This investigation is passing through your pain - guilt ,fighting, fears, blood and pus, through the dirty linen.
God is immediately behind them.

Thanks, Lubo. I will try to be very transparent and honest about what is being felt here.

No one says this awakening is easy.

I'm not scared of whether it is difficult, Lubo. I'm most afraid of not reaching it in this life.

OK. What thoughts are holding you with?

The main thing that is present is doubt, Lubo. Not just one doubt but many doubts:

1. When I look within, I'm seeing (being/knowing) the "space" that I am. This is a familiar space but I'm not realising anything about it. By seeing what I'm seeing, how do I know like you know, that there is no me?

2. I have always only been in this experience, in this being like this. What is the difference between this and an awakened being? What does it look like, and at what stage can I say that I have seen it? I am asking this because I haven't seen anything new so far in all these years, in my being.

3. Some books/teachings/scriptures I have read say that one needs to be in samadhi or in a state where there is no perception of the world should occur. Does that mean that me looking now is not going to help? Jon once said that just as this is called a Gateless Gate, I should consider it as a Liberationless Liberation, so that I don't expect an event to take place. If that is the case, am I already there? Have I already reached? How will I know? but it doesn't feel like I know anything or realized anything. In that case, how will I know when I get it? In other words, what am I aiming at? How will I know? Am I delaying the process because I don't know what it will look like?

4. It feels like I am here and some not-fully-seen awareness but one that might be somewhere in the body. What is the difference between this and the knowing that there is no me? Will this awareness appear brighter? Will it be more clear, more continuous? Will objects be felt to be not real? How do I get there? How is it possible that things can appear differently than from now? Have I not experienced life exactly in this manner that I'm experiencing it now, since I was born? How is it possible that that can be different. If not, then what should I be realizing here?

I've read about awakening for a long time, and can maybe easily repeat the words that I have studied. But experientially I don't know anything, Lubo. I'm very scared of the possibility that this intellectual knowledge is the only thing I get, and that I might miss awakening, and might die before that. This is my biggest fear. There is some belief that there might be rebirth and that by getting liberation, it is possible to end the cycle of birth and rebirth. Jon has repeatedly told me to remember that this is only an idea - I'm trying to do that, and I don't know how much I believe this idea now, I have not been thinking about it much of late, but I cannot say that I don't believe it at all.

Will reply to the rest of your post tomorrow.

With so much love,
Raam

[indianguy]

Dear Lubo,

Another addition:

If I forget about any concept called liberation, awakening,self realisation and just look at what is felt, till now I have just seen some experiences, my presence, thoughts and some sensations. I don't know what to say about it. It looks like i can't find a "me" as a thing. But still, I'm here. I know that sensations are being felt, I know the thoughts that come. It looks like i can pay attention to things (attention does seem to move around by itself, especially when I forget things) - that memory can remember some things that I paid attention to.

With this, I don't know what is free, who is liberated, I don't know anything. And there's still dear, doubt, etc.

Love,
Raam

[Lubo]

Hi dear Raam,

By seeing what I'm seeing, how do I know like you know, that there is no me?

Let's focus only here, OK?
Like a hunter to the target, nothing else is important at this moment, right?

So, How do I know that there is no "persona me"? - excellent question, thank you for that!
Look is there a "me" running the show or everything wich is found is only what is found?

With eyes closed - notice the experience labeled 1st chakra - is there " a me" producing that? " a me" wich is that or ?
Notice the freedom to not be life happening? and the perfection of every detail in the visual field/ how life shows up?

Love,
Lubo

[indianguy]

Hi dear Lubo,

Let's focus only here, OK?

Yes, sure, Lubo.

Like a hunter to the target, nothing else is important at this moment, right?

Sure, Lubo. Will focus on this.

So, How do I know that there is no "persona me"? - excellent question, thank you for that!
Look is there a "me" running the show or everything wich is found is only what is found?

So far, I have never found a someone who is running the show, Lubo. Things are here, they are noticed. And a 'thing' that is making things happen is not to be found so far.

Some time yesterday, I happened to look at my reflection on a class pane at home, and at that moment, there was no particular thought. Without referencing thoughts, for a fraction of a second, it was not possible to tell which was me and which was not. It did not feel like there is a me in this body. There was this form and there was the reflection-form. At that moment, there was not even the thought "I am looking through these eyes". There was just the looking and all of it in a spacious presence.

The moment I looked away, it went back to feeling like I must be looking out from behind these eyes.

It didn't last for even a second, I think, Lubo.

With eyes closed - notice the experience labeled 1st chakra - is there " a me" producing that? " a me" wich is that or ?

I sat with eyes closed just looking in the region of the pelvis (not sure where exactly the 'chakra' is), the sensations of sitting and other feeling like the clothes on the body in that region.

The sensation is effortlessly present. There is no effort to create/produce that sensation, so there is no likelihood that a 'me' is producing it.

Notice the freedom to not be life happening? and the perfection of every detail in the visual field/ how life shows up?

"the freedom to not be life"? Not sure I understand, Lubo, sorry.
The things being seen around, etc seems so familiar that I don't know what I should call as perfection, Lubo.

Love,
Raam

[Lubo]

OK. You are doing very well!
Stay with me!

Look here:

Without referencing thoughts, for a fraction of a second, it was not possible to tell which was me and which was not

Now notice that the mind trys to find that there is no persona?
Notice that the mind create persona and now is trying to figured out what is going on?
Notice is there something else but not mind?
Is there a "me" doing mind's job? :)

"the freedom to not be life"? Not sure I understand, Lubo, sorry.

OK. Look around - this is how mind "sees reality"
Notice for you/God, mind brings you only experiences?
Now notice the idea that mind is Raam?
and simply look, is it posible exactly this mind, with this experiences in this very miments
to be someone,
to be persona
or personal mind?

Free the mind from personality !

Love,
Lubo

[indianguy]

Dear Lubo,

Stay with me!

Yes.

Now notice that the mind trys to find that there is no persona?
Notice that the mind create persona and now is trying to figured out what is going on?

Yes yes, Lubo. Creating the persona and then trying to understand that there is no persona are both activities of the mind, yes.

Is there a "me" doing mind's job? :)

No, no, Lubo. Right now, it looks like the mind is just doing this - based on some energy, but no doer. Just habit.

But when fear or discomfort comes, it seriously feels like there's a me which is suffering. At this point, it is possible to say that that is also the mind's activity. But at the moment of fear or discomfort, it feels almost impossible to see that.

Notice is there something else but not mind?

Apart from mind and sensations, there's just knowing - simple presence is there. And it feels like the body is a solid thing that is present, but that's also just sensations.

OK. Look around - this is how mind "sees reality"
Notice for you/God, mind brings you only experiences?

Yes, Lubo. The way I seem to experience reality is based on how the mind presents experience to me.

Now notice the idea that mind is Raam?

Yes yes, Lubo.

and simply look, is it posible exactly this mind, with this experiences in this very miments
to be someone,
to be persona
or personal mind?

The same mind just creates one more thought saying I am Raam, of I am Raam's mind. But that is not based on anything real, Lubo.

I am able to see that for just a second, maybe less. It goes back to believing that there's a person. When looking, there is no person to be found, but later, the idea is held onto again, like a habit.

Before I finish typing the sentence of what was seen, the idea is believed in again. But I understand, link.

Much love to you,
Raam

[Lubo]

Hi dear Raam,
Very good!

Is there a "me" doing mind's job? :)

No, no, Lubo. Right now, it looks like the mind is just doing this - based on some energy, but no doer. Just habit.

But when fear or discomfort comes, it seriously feels like there's a me which is suffering. At this point, it is possible to say that that is also the mind's activity. But at the moment of fear or discomfort, it feels almost impossible to see that

Yes, no Raam. Just thoughts that are is worrying that they are Raam's mind.

When fear and discomfort appear - let's thoughts be " We are Universal's thoughts, we are not Raam's thoughts +
nothing we can do here is only God and his consciousness and God is aware of everything and only God is aware of thoughts. There is no one here, in this moment. Only experiences and God"
What is coming?

So much love to you,
Lubo

[indianguy]

Dear Lubo,

Yes, no Raam. Just thoughts that are is worrying that they are Raam's mind.

Right, Lubo.

When fear and discomfort appear - let's thoughts be " We are Universal's thoughts, we are not Raam's thoughts +
nothing we can do here is only God and his consciousness and God is aware of everything and only God is aware of thoughts. There is no one here, in this moment. Only experiences and God"
What is coming?

I generally get a little uncomfortable in enclosed spaces (which is part of the reason I'm uncomfortable on planes). But I've come to visit my brother for a few days and he lives on the 11th floor, so I need to take the elevator. I tried this a few times on the elevator.

There was a worry about focusing on anything other than the fear/discomfort itself, because I've come to believe that maybe if I worry about it or pray, maybe nothing bad will happen, but what if I focus on something else and I get stuck?

A part of me was able to just try to feel that all of this is not me - this is the Universe's/God's fear and there's no me, but another part angrily felt "okay, but if I get stuck, then I'm the one that needs to feel scared, suffocated, right?", and post of me wanted to worry because that is the habit that has been built, and due to the belief that may be if I worry, everything will be okay. But those are obviously thoughts and random ideas.

I'm able to say that now when I'm comfortable and I feel okay, but during the uncomfortable situation there's only a desperate desire to just get out of the discomfort, and maybe a temporary disinterest in reason, etc.
Familiar space.

But it was possible to just try to feel that this is not my fear. I don't know if I succeeded in actually feeling that, there was a sincere wish to just get back to worrying and bring scared because that is a I'll try again, Lubo.

Much love to you,
Raam