Im tired of seeking

[BobbyOlsen]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Depends on the context hehe… But here it would be to clearly see that the sense of being a seperate self in opposition to a world “out there” is false. To see without a doubt that the sense of self is simply a bundle of thoughts and misperceptions. That there is noone who is in control… 1st path in Theravada, kensho, initial awakening etc.

What are you looking for at LU?
To stop being a “seeker”. To clearly see that all these thoughts and perceptions are not about a “me” and that there is noone who needs to be in control. To “attain” stream-entry, kensho… To see the true nature of this moment, of reality, of what “I am”. To be released from the burden of feeling like something Is missing or wrong with “this”, that there is something Ibneed to understand that I dont yet… Simply to end this seeking

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
For a veteran spiritual seeker with actual and deep “insight” to guide me through the circles of doubts and misperceptions. Someone with direct knowledge of “truth”, and not someone repeating words and scripts they have read or heard. Someone who can cut through this mind’s BS, and show “me” the truth, right here and now ;) That would be very much appreciated hehe

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been practicing for thousands of hours over 9-10 years, 6-7 years of serious non-duality/awakening/enlightenment stuff. I have done waaay too many different practices(different types of samatha, types of vipassana, shikantaza types, psychedelics, self-inquiry, other inquiries/questioning, yoga, kriya yoga…) Unfortunately I dont seem to have a lot of natural spiritual talent hehe, which is probs why Im here ;)

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Lubo]

Hi dear Bobby,
Welcome to the forum
Thanks for waiting.

Can I call you like this or you prefer another name?

I like the title of your thread

Im tired of seeking

This resonate with me and shows me that you are ready to see.

To see without a doubt that the sense of self is simply a bundle of thoughts and misperceptions.

Wonderful. I want to ask you again, are you really ready to question all thoughts concepts?

To clearly see that all these thoughts and perceptions are not about a “me”

Ok. Notice perceptions - is there anything but not perceptions?

Love
Lubo

[BobbyOlsen]

Hi Lubo

Thanks for being willing to help. Lets end this seeking as quickly as possible :)

You can call me whatever you want to call me :)

This resonate with me and shows me that you are ready to see.

Yes, "I" am absolutely tired of seeking and I am completely ready to see what needs to be seen.

Wonderful. I want to ask you again, are you really ready to question all thoughts concepts?

There is not a single thought/concept/belief that I am not willing to see through.

Ok. Notice perceptions - is there anything but not perceptions?

If by perceptions you mean "whatever seems to be happening in this moment through the sense gates", then there is only perceptions. All the perceptions that are available right in this "now" feel extremely ordinary. All sensations have the same quality as all the other billion times that they have been investigated. The sounds feel the same, the sights feel the same, the mental world feel the same etc. Everything that is available in direct experience feels normal and ordinary. They have a "feel" of not being "the right experience" for awakening. This is one of the main blocks that keeps the seeking going... Direct experience feels too ordinary and "not-special". There is an unlocatable sense of "me-ness" and "something-missingness", they cannot be found, but they are lurking in the background, seemingly behind the ability of this moment to dissolve them. This me-ness and something-missingness is present at all times whenever this moment is aware of itself. Upon investigation all experiences and perceptions are seen to happen by themselves, there is no control over anything, a "controller" can not be found, but the seeking continues and a sense of not "getting it" is very powerful. I could go on and on... but i will let you cut through this seeking shitshow now... :)

Love
A nobody

[Lubo]

Hi dear Nobody Bobby :)
I like your sense of humor.

Yes, "I" am absolutely tired of seeking and I am completely ready to see what needs to be seen.

Exellent. Let's do it

If by perceptions you mean "whatever seems to be happening in this moment through the sense gates", then there is only perceptions.

You found something very precious - !there is only perceptions!
Yes there are only perceptions.

To understand how deep this is, see what it means:
Say a few time "Thoughts are not real, there is no such thing as a body, there are only perceptions"
and notice what is coming?

Love and freedom,
Lubo

[BobbyOlsen]

Hi Lubo

It doesnt feel very precious at the moment… It feels ordinary and not at all like deep insight into the nature of reality….

Thoughts are not real, there is no such thing as a body, there are only perceptions

Doing this doesnt touch anything. It is only an insignificant movement of sound coming from the mouth or a vague movement of mind-stuff in the mind, and it changes nothing. Just words arising in the unlocatable mind. Different “meta-thoughts” arise saying something like “i dont get it, this shit never works for this mind, ive already tried this 101.247 times and it doesnt do anything, ohhh but this shit is also a thought, ohh another thought…”. A feeling that what is experienced right now cant be what all the masters experience… A belief/doubt that says this body-mind is not able to perceive reality in a sufficiantly accurate way in order to see what is really going on here. A sense of wanting some specific experience/understanding to happen that is different than what is happening right now. Simply a sense that this body-mind doesnt process the right tools/talents to cut through all this BS… Basically what happens is a sense that what is peceived is the wrong perception.

Have a lovely day
Mr. Nothing

[Lubo]

Hi mr Nothing,

A sense of wanting some specific experience/understanding to happen that is different than what is happening right now.

Yes and No :)
This what is here is this what is, but mind says that this here is not what is but world, can you see the diference?

So, there are only colours, sensations, sounds, smell, taste and thoughts
Look around - there is only colours, right?
Mind says that there is a world which has a colour :) What are joke, isn't it?

Notice again "This" here, thoughts are not real - Is there anything which is not only perceptions but world?
L👀K

[BobbyOlsen]

Hi Lubo

This what is here is this what is, but mind says that this here is not what is but world, can you see the diference?

Hmm im not sure exactly what you mean, but I can deff see that there is a slight rejection of “what is” and an underlying sense of wanting to “control” and change “what is”. There is deff a sense of “Im in here somewhere and the World is out there somewhere”..

Look around - there is only colours, right?

Yes, colours, shapes and seeming “depth”

Notice again "This" here, thoughts are not real - Is there anything which is not only perceptions but world?
L👀K

There are only the senses… and then interpretations in thoughts immediately afterwards, with almost no seperation :)

[Lubo]

Hmm im not sure exactly what you mean, but I can deff see that there is a slight rejection of “what is” and an underlying sense of wanting to “control” and change “what is”. There is deff a sense of “Im in here somewhere and the World is out there somewhere”..

Wonderful, your experience is the higher autority.
let's look these two:

but I can deff see that there is a slight rejection of “what is” and an underlying sense of wanting to “control” and change “what is”

Yes, that is to say an inner child - this is an old pattern from our childhood that resists parents and demands different things from them. It's like a teenager who wants to be in control :)

Now invitation is to notice that there is no teen here with his own power and freewill
Notice that the mind is this teen waiting to resist , fight, and control and this teen mind is absolutely blind for the fact that all this what appear is one and the same power.

Please write first 10 thoughts wich will come and notice is there thought which is not for the me-teen boy?
Do it literally

Im in here somewhere and the World is out there somewhere

Yes nothing appears as everything - you share exactly this.
Just notice that you are not the body which is labeled as separate thing from the rest.
Only thoughts says this, that behind the eyes there is a person :)
How eyes are separate from all this here?
And yes behind the eyes is easy to find that there is ...what?

Love
Lubo

[BobbyOlsen]

Hi Lubo

Yup, it is a little bit like a teenager.. Mostly it is a simple judgement of the present moment as the mind/teenager compares this "what is" with spiritual concepts/previous insights/experiences. The mind remembers/looks for how "this" should be(various spiritual concepts) and it cant find what it thinks "should be"...

Notice that the mind is this teen waiting to resist...

I can see that. All that the mind does is grasping and rejecting what is. There is no "teen" to be found. Only patterns of pushing and pulling on what a thought deems to somehow be in "its" control...

Please write first 10 thoughts wich will come and notice is there thought which is not for the me-teen boy?

A thought repeating the sentence, thinking about thinking about the sentence, thought thinking about a silence with no thoughts, thinking about how attention moves around in the body by itself, directing attention to look for a boundary between the sound of a radiator and a tickle on the nose, a number of half-formed thoughts that are automatically stopped and then immediately followed by another half-formed thought, annoyed that "I" dont "get it", thinking a thought about "who" is it that doesnt "get it", thinking about the next thought that is going to be written in this message, thought about the jhanas...

Im not sure about your question:

is there thought which is not for the me-teen boy

The specific thoughts that popped up in this exercise didnt feel so much to be about the "teen-boy". The teen-boy was more like a sort of witness to the whole thing. None of these thoughts felt like they wanted something for the "teen-boy"... except a non-formed thought of wanting to sound like a "good seeker", but that was mostly like a background mood, and it was only noticed in retrospect...

Just notice that you are not the body which is labeled as separate thing from the rest.
Only thoughts says this, that behind the eyes there is a person :)
How eyes are separate from all this here?
And yes behind the eyes is easy to find that there is ...what?

Yes, for me the sense of self/a center is mostly tied to the face/eyes/behind the eyes. Upon investigation it is seen that there is nothing there and that it is only sensations of tension/tingling. This has been seen a billion times... But when it is clear that there is no self in the face/eyes there is still a sense of "not getting it". There is obviously nothing special about the eyes/face that make it more important than anything else in experience. But still somewhere in the background there is a thought/belief that there is some "thing" that needs to "get it" that needs to wake up/get enlightened/too see something special...

Happy life
Some nobody

[Lubo]

Hi dear Bobby,
Thanks for the reply.
I read it but I want to highlight only this one, if you don't mind.

But still somewhere in the background there is a thought/belief that there is some "thing" that needs to "get it" that needs to wake up/get enlightened/too see something special...

Notice the expectation what seeing trough illusion looks like?
Then notice, is there any idea that this will help you escape from something in particular, something that "thoughts" are afraid of?
what is this ?
Notice it and share with me please.

love to you,
Lubo

[BobbyOlsen]

Hi Lubo

Notice the expectation what seeing trough illusion looks like?
Then notice, is there any idea that this will help you escape from something in particular, something that "thoughts" are afraid of?
what is this ?

There are a lot of expectations... And they create a lot of doubt. Most of the expectations are confusing "late stage realisation" with "early stage realisation". Seeking enlightenment has definitely been a form of escape from this worldly life. Its not that I live a terribly difficult life, actually there is barely any suffering, im just simply tired of seeking and doing and efforting. There is an unrealistic expectation that ones im totally awake there will no longer be any "doing", like I can just relax and never use any effort, because everything just happens automatically by itself, no struggle.

There are literally endless expectations... some are quite "realistic", but many of them are obviously just a hinderance and a way for the "mind" hold on to and feel in control.

I would actually like to work on these expectations. I have WAAAAyy to high expectations in regards to the first "shift".

Peace
Bobbybro

[Lubo]

Hi Bobbybro, :)

I have WAAAAyy to high expectations in regards to the first "shift".

Nice, expectations are weak, every imagination is to small ;)

There are a lot of expectations... And they create a lot of doubt.

Notice that every thought about expectations and doubt is known?
And accepted and love instantly?
What if you are this love where everything appears and is more than welcome?

Notice the doubt – isn't it instantly known and accepted?

What if it's exactly what you're looking for?
Notice that you are love, not what is loved and what appears in love?

Love
Lubo

[BobbyOlsen]

Hi Lubo

Notice that every thought about expectations and doubt is known?

Well yes, nothing can be experienced without being known? Knowing is inseparable from experience..

And accepted and love instantly?
What if you are this love where everything appears and is more than welcome? Notice the doubt – isn't it instantly known and accepted? What if it's exactly what you're looking for?
Notice that you are love, not what is loved and what appears in love?

Well if something happens then reality has already accepted it, right hehe. Though there is often a thought that tries to resist the acceptance... Concepts such as "you are this love where everything appears" are what creates a lot of doubt for me. Mostly the "where everything appears". It doesnt matter if the word that everything appears within is "love", "awareness", "emptiness", "Atman", "Brahman" or something similar. I have looked so fucking many times for something within which everything appears, and I just simply cannot find anything other than ordinary reality (5 senses + mind), no special "thing" that contains "this". I can only find ordinary reality happening by itself. No special Love, Awareness, Silence...

Flowers and butterflies
Bobs

[Lubo]

Hi Bobs :)

You fond the main problem of seeking and existane
DOUBT and fear does this which appear is the right one, is it accepted, should be fix something.
Can you see this? Is there shame and guilt that you are something wrong , incapable, unworthy ?

Well if something happens then reality has already accepted it, right hehe. Though there is often a thought that tries to resist the acceptance... Concepts such as "you are this love where everything appears" are what creates a lot of doubt for me. Mostly the "where everything appears". It doesnt matter if the word that everything appears within is "love", "awareness", "emptiness", "Atman", "Brahman" or something similar. I have looked so fucking many times for something within which everything appears, and I just simply cannot find anything other than ordinary reality (5 senses + mind), no special "thing" that contains "this". I can only find ordinary reality happening by itself. No special Love, Awareness, Silence...

"I can only find ordinary reality happening by itself" - notice that we are identify only with the half reality this part wich appears/happens and fear is coming, but notice that there is another part, NOW which doesn't move?
This knowing whats going on, does it moved? or every movement is known/happened in the knowing, in the NOW?
Notice that NOW appear as what appear, but does the NOW appears or or it just is?

This is your home, you can rest here or enjoy the energy with which you appear as human, no shame, no guilt, no doubt. Only now as this what is :)
What is coming when you reflect on this?

Love
LuBob ;)

[BobbyOlsen]

Hi Lubob

Can you see this? Is there shame and guilt that you are something wrong , incapable, unworthy ?

Ohh yes, I have no problems seeing that :) Its not actually a very heavy feeling. Its just a simple feeling of not being where i want to be, not seeing clearly, and subtle fear of being incapable of changing that. A background feeling of being helplessly lost at sea without any real influence on how to get home. And then a doubt about whether or not Im actually going to go home before I die out on the open ocean of samsara.

"I can only find ordinary reality happening by itself" - notice that we are identify only with the half reality this part wich appears/happens and fear is coming, but notice that there is another part, NOW which doesn't move?
This knowing whats going on, does it moved? or every movement is known/happened in the knowing, in the NOW?
Notice that NOW appear as what appear, but does the NOW appears or or it just is?

I just dont get that bro. Yeah, intellectually i “get” the concept, but in direct experience there is nothing there that I can find that lets me “hold” some kind of “knowing” that is seperate from ordinary experience. And ordinary experience happens completely by itself, it needs no help. And yes, I know that you cant hold "knowing" as an object and yaddayaddayadda...But... the bubble just doesnt burst... I dont fcuking get the joke. It feels like I just dont know how to "look" in the right way. There is no fear that Im afraid to feel, there is no feeling that im afraid to look at, there is no experience that im trying to push away, there is nothing that Im trying to escape from except this feeling of not fucking getting it.

Have a peaceful day friend ;)
Boblo