Seeking non-dual guide to assist with pointers to waking up

[nbarenchi]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
My novice understanding of non-duality/no-self is that everything is actually ONE collective energy that has no beginning and no end - is never born and never dies. The same energy/consciousness that amassed to form the human body called "nicole" is no different than anyone else or anything there is or ever was.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for assistance with embodying non-dual concepts in an effort to wake up from the programming that nicole is a separate self. I am not entirely sure what type of support I might receive with LU, AND I am eager to learn as much as I can on this topic. It seems to me that the belief that I am a separate self is the root of suffering (as it is for all humans) and plays a large role in the current state of decline that our society appears to be in.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I was hoping someone could help me see the "truth" with pointers/language specific to my blind spots/resistance/old programming that are getting in the way of waking up to my true nature. I was thinking that a conversation with someone that has been in my shoes, and has since found their way to the truth might be able to field questions and provide feedback/challenge where needed.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have only just begun my spiritual seeking about a year ago, when my psychotherapist suggested a regular meditation practice, breathwork, somatic experiencing via self-inquiry and studying teachers and masters such as: Nisargardatta, Ramana, Adyashanti, Rupert Spira, Tolle, Francis Lucille, Lester Levenson, Laura Lucille, Ken Wilbur, David Hawkins.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[JonathanR]

Hi Nicole

(Is it ok for me to use this name)?

Reading your intro I'm willing to try to point for you and to assist you in your inquiry.

. I am not entirely sure what type of support I might receive with LU, AND I am eager to learn as much as I can on this topic.

That's fair enough. We can have a conversation here and based on what you say I will try to provide pointers to no self. Those pointers will be invitations to take a look at no self. The "looking" bit will be up to you.

If you have any questions do let me know? If there is somewhere you'd like us to start the enquiry also let me know?

Warm regards

Jon

[nbarenchi]

Hi Jon,

Yes it is ok to call me Nicole. I will try to explain where I am in the waking up process. I consume quite a bit of content (books, videos, attend a local circle exploring non-duality teachings) however it is my understanding that to fully embody these concepts I must also look and see for myself that there is no self, during meditation, correct? I could consume all the content available on non-duality but until I look and experience no self through meditation, it will elude?

I am quite new to these concepts (only exposed for the first time about a year ago) and was previously "averse" to organized religion/spirituality as a result of being molested by my stepfather as a young girl who was forcing Catholicism on the family. When praying to god didn't keep me safe as a young girl, I swore off organized religion along with any spirituality. The non-dual concepts resonate...that way I don't have to feel the victim around God not protecting me. I realize this statement in itself is an example of the continued separation. I am going in circles with this.

Thank you for being willing to assist me Jon.

[nbarenchi]

Hi Jon,

Yes it is ok to call me Nicole. I will try to explain where I am in the waking up process. I consume quite a bit of content (books, videos, attend a local circle exploring non-duality teachings) however it is my understanding that to fully embody these concepts I must also look and see for myself that there is no self, during meditation, correct? I could consume all the content available on non-duality but until I look and experience no self through meditation, it will elude?

I am quite new to these concepts (only exposed for the first time about a year ago) and was previously "averse" to organized religion/spirituality as a result of being molested by my stepfather as a young girl who was forcing Catholicism on the family. When praying to god didn't keep me safe as a young girl, I swore off organized religion along with any spirituality. The non-dual concepts resonate...that way I don't have to feel the victim around God not protecting me. I realize this statement in itself is an example of the continued separation. I am going in circles with this.

Thank you for being willing to assist me Jon.

[nbarenchi]

Hi Jon,

Yes it is ok to call me Nicole. I will try to explain where I am in the waking up process. I consume quite a bit of content (books, videos, attend a local circle exploring non-duality teachings) however it is my understanding that to fully embody these concepts I must also look and see for myself that there is no self, during meditation, correct? I could consume all the content available on non-duality but until I look and experience no self through meditation, it will elude?

I am quite new to these concepts (only exposed for the first time about a year ago) and was previously "averse" to organized religion/spirituality as a result of being molested by my stepfather as a young girl who was forcing Catholicism on the family. When praying to god didn't keep me safe as a young girl, I swore off organized religion along with any spirituality. The non-dual concepts resonate...that way I don't have to feel the victim around God not protecting me. I realize this statement in itself is an example of the continued separation. I am going in circles with this.

Thank you for being willing to assist me Jon.

[JonathanR]

Hi Nicole

Thanks for writing more about your journey so far.

. I consume quite a bit of content (books, videos, attend a local circle exploring non-duality teachings) however it is my understanding that to fully embody these concepts I must also look and see for myself that there is no self, during meditation, correct? I could consume all the content available on non-duality but until I look and experience no self through meditation, it will elude?

Yes that is broadly correct. Meditation is good but actually not always strictly necessary for this inquiry. But feel free to do meditation if you wish.

We sometimes recommend not consuming non-dual videos or talks and books by gurus and teachers whilst you are engaged in this inquiry. This is because it can be confusing and not particularly helpful to do that at the same time. Of course feel free to return to those things afterwords if you wish.

If you don't know how these investigations work at LU, it takes the form of a conversation, a chat. All our efforts will focus on you seeing clearly that there is no self. I will tend to keep asking questions and these will be pointers for you to look at.

Sorry to hear about the experience with your stepfather, by the way.

Now, if you're ready to begin investigating, please let me know what is your current understanding of what "you" are? Say as much as you would like in order to answer this question.

Thank you.

I'm very happy to assist you.


Jon

[nbarenchi]

Thank you for being willing to assist me Jon. Here is my current mental understanding (which I often forget): I am everything and I am nothing. Everything (including what I might call "me/Nicole") is simply energy/vibration. This human body called Nicole is merely a conglomeration of neurons, protons, cells/quarks - that gives the illusion/experience of being separate from other (people, animals, buildings, plants, cars, air, water, planets, etc...) but it is really all just one big soup of phenomenon and it is all connected even when it feels separate. I was never born, and I will never die, because the energy that animates this body already existed and will exist after this body expires.

[JonathanR]

Hi Nicole

Thanks for your answer. It's helpful for me to know more about your thinking.

By the way, what did you think of my suggestion about placing non-dual inquiry books and videos groups and and teachers to one side whilst we investigate "self" here? Let me know if you can't do it or don't want to do it please?

Thank you

Jon

[nbarenchi]

I am totally open to putting all the books and other teachings aside whilst working with you here. I do find that when I take in copious amounts of content it can become confusing especially if one teacher contradicts another. I feel relaxed at the idea of focusing on a single source of information and trust that you are a credible source as this site comes highly recommended from someone I respect and trust.

[JonathanR]

. I am totally open to putting all the books and other teachings aside whilst working with you here. I do find that when I take in copious amounts of content it can become confusing especially if one teacher contradicts another. I feel relaxed at the idea of focusing on a single source of information and trust that you are a credible source as this site comes highly recommended from someone I respect and trust.

Thanks Nicole. This is very helpful. I agree, different teachers can seem to contradict each other. This will work to your advantage.

Ok... Onward!

. Everything (including what I might call "me/Nicole") is simply energy/vibration. This human body called Nicole is merely a conglomeration of neurons, protons, cells/quarks - that gives the illusion/experience of being separate from other (people, animals, buildings, plants, cars, air, water, planets, etc...) but it is really all just one big soup of phenomenon and it is all connected even when it feels separate. I was never born, and I will never die, because the energy that animates this body already existed and will exist after this body expires.

"Soup of phenomenon"! I like that.

Was there a moment, an experience when this was felt or experienced, that make you say this?

How much of what you've said would you say is intellectual understanding, reasoning ? And how much is from direct experience?

Direct or immediate experience is key to this inquiry. So what is it? There is a difference between learned knowledge, thoughts, , theories, on one hand... and verifiable experience on the other. For example the blueness of the sky can be explained , described in words, thought about, but this is not the same as the direct experience , looking into sky.

I'm going to ask you various questions and you need to notice what's actually happening so as to be able to answer them.

The words on this screen are seen. But what is doing the seeing?

Conventionally it is often assumed that it is "eyes" or "me" that are doing the seeing.

So right here and now notice what's happening. Is it an experience of eyes seeing? Is that what it's like? , Or a body seeing ? Or a "me, seeing"? Is seeing just happening?


Let me know how this goes?

All best

Jon

[nbarenchi]

Hello Jon,

My apologies for the delay in responding here. I recently took on a new job and it is taking up much of my time and free time (learning curve).

So to answer your questions: NO, I have not experienced even a moment or a glimpse that I am the awareness. Everything I explained to you of my understanding is purely learned, intellectual knowledge from others teachings (books, videos, sitting with teachers in person).

What is happening right now: I close my eyes and I hear commentary going on in my mind presumably. No, I don't have any proof that the words I am hearing are sourced from the mind - this is a learned belief I adopted long ago. I feel some pain in the body, some sadness comes up but there are no words or pictures attached to it. Now tears come. I get the sense it is sadness around unmet expectations about how my experience as a human on this planet "is supposed to go". Then lots of story and proof and phenomenon arise to show me why that is true.

Thank you again for your pointers here,

Nicole

[JonathanR]

Dear Nicole

Please forgive the oversight. I had not seen your last reply! I have only just found it. . Perhaps because there was a delay of about a week when you replied to me I think that your thread may have moved down the first page of LU Gate and onto the second page , where I did not see it turn green (indicating you had answered). If I had seen your name reappear in green I would have answered.

Let me know if you would like to resume your inquiry and I will reply to your last comments.

Kind regards

Jon

[nbarenchi]

Hello Jon,

Yes I would be interested in continuing.

Thank you,

Nicole