Liberation

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poppyseed
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Re: Liberation

Postby poppyseed » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:36 am

Hi Deneb
Really good!
Just to ensure that you are crystal clear about DE and labels related to it...here's an exercise that you can try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities, objects and emotions simply as colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought as per the apple example.
For example, when having coffee in the morning, become aware of:
Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought


Break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists EXACTLY like the one above. Please write a few examples from your daily life.
what appears is a little contraction in the back of my neck and head, when I meditate is a very intense contraction.
There is also a feeling of peace or something like that in the chest. The sensation of the body becomes clearer and sounds and colors become a little clearer or brighter.
What are ‘body’, ‘chest’, ‘back’, ‘neck’, and ‘head’? Does the body experience and owns sensations? Can the body do things?
Take something cold from the fridge – like a can of cooldrink. When you touch the can, what does more accurately describe your experience – a. Your fingers feeling cold because of touching a cold can; or b. Coldness - sensation labelled “cold”? With eyes closed, where does the cold appear? Observe the order in which the details appear
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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TheUnborn
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Re: Liberation

Postby TheUnborn » Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:24 am

Hi Rali!
Hope you are doing well!
Break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists EXACTLY like the one above. Please write a few examples from your daily life.
seeing a monitor, desk, keyboard, simply = image/color
feeling the pressure of chair when sitting , simply = sensation
feeling the pressure of my feet against the floor, simply = sensation
smelling the floor cleaner, simply = smell
feeling the pressure of the keyboard on fingers, simply = sensation
hearing the typing, simply = sound
thinking about typing, simply = thought

seeing TV, desk, wall, simply = image/color
hearing the sound of TV, simply = sound
tasting the food, simply = taste
hearing the sound when chewing, simply = sound
hearing the sound of the dog, simply sound
feeling the pressure of the couch when sitting, simply = sensation

hearing the sound of the blender, simply = sound
smelling the smoothie, simply = smell
tasting the smoothie, simply = taste
feeling the smoothie in mouth, simply = sensation
seeing the blender, simply = colors/image

What are ‘body’, ‘chest’, ‘back’, ‘neck’, and ‘head’?
Body, chest, back, neck and head are concepts. I can simply feel more now, and see that body, chest, back, neck and head are thoughts. So the sensation happens and thought happens.

Does the body experience and owns sensations?
No the body is a concept and sensation is what is happening. The thought body gets mingle with the sensation and seems that there is someone with a body having a sensation.
Can the body do things?
It seems there is a body doing things. But it is getting clearer that there is just sensation happening and things happening without the concept of a body doing them.

When you touch the can, what does more accurately describe your experience – a. Your fingers feeling cold because of touching a cold can; or b. Coldness - sensation labelled “cold”?
If I pay close attention my experience is coldness – sensation labelled “cold”, but if I just do it without paying attention my experience is fingers feeling cold because of touching a cold can. The conditioning is so strong that I have to pay close attention to the experience coldness without concepts mingling and creating a someone doing.

With eyes closed, where does the cold appear?
With eyes close cold appears in the area where my hand is. But if I pay close attention is just there nowhere in particular, it feels closer in some way.
Observe the order in which the details appear

First is coldness and then is the thought of: there is my hand touching a cold can. It is very fast this process. If I pay close attention thoughts quiet and there is only coldness.

Thank you very much for the pointing it is very helpful.

Love

Deneb

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poppyseed
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Re: Liberation

Postby poppyseed » Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:16 pm

Hi Deneb
Really good!
With eyes close cold appears in the area where my hand is. But if I pay close attention is just there nowhere in particular, it feels closer in some way.
What is “the area where my hand is”? Is there a location for sensations or is it just a label?
If I pay close attention my experience is coldness – sensation labelled “cold”, but if I just do it without paying attention my experience is fingers feeling cold because of touching a cold can.
What pays attention, notices sensations, and labels them? What identifies with experience? Is there an experiencer, a witness?

For the next exercise I want you to sit somewhere quiet and observe thoughts.
A thought appears. In that moment is there anyone or anything which recognises the thought or is aware of it? Can you see anything that is separate from the thought and does the thinking? Where do thoughts appear from? Do they appear randomly or in a structured way? Is there anything that is responsible for the thoughts like a traffic cop saying which one to go and which one to stay? Can the flow of thoughts be changed? Watch like a hawk.
Write down a sequence of 5 thoughts in the order that they appear. Now check:
Could you predict the order of their appearance? Did you know which will be the second or the fourth? Can you stop them midway? How long does that last? Test it for the fun of exploration. Are they 100% true?
What are you, when you don't think about what you are?

Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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TheUnborn
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Re: Liberation

Postby TheUnborn » Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:48 am

Hi Rali!

I hope you are awesome!
What is “the area where my hand is”?
The area where my hand is is a concept, I can feel the mind trying to make sense of where the cold, the hand, and the body are. Tries to create a representation with concepts.
Is there a location for sensations or is it just a label?
It is just a label. I can experience how thought tries to build a story to create a sense of body and space. It uses a lot of energy to do this.
A thought appears. In that moment is there anyone or anything which recognizes the thought or is aware of it?
No there is no one or anything which recognizes the thought or it is aware of it. But thoughts are so fast that it creates the illusion that there is someone. Attention has to be sharp to recognize this.
Can you see anything that is separate from the thought and does the thinking?
No there is nothing that is separate from the thought and does the thinking. The illusion of someone thinking is another thought, is very mysterious how this happens.
Do they appear randomly or in a structured way?
Thoughts appear randomly, but the illusion of structure can appear when thoughts are of the same subject.

Is there anything that is responsible for the thoughts like a traffic cop saying which one to go and which one to stay?
No there is nothing responsible for the thoughts like a traffic cop, they come and go without anyone deciding which stays or which goes. Even when it seems they are of the same subject it is very random which stays and which goes. One thing was notice, some thoughts are more sticky than others, have more emotion behind them.

Can the flow of thoughts be changed?
No, the flow of thoughts cannot be changed. Sometimes it is very intense and sometimes it is more quiet. There are like the weather.
Could you predict the order of their appearance?
No its not possible to predict the order of the appearance of thoughts. Even when I try to think of something that I believe to be structure, like a sequence of steps to do something, thoughts come randomly. Haha
Can you stop them midway?
No, I can not stop them midway. They can stop midway but its something that happens.

How long does that last?
It last very little. Thoughts are very short live. It seems that they can last a long time when a thought seems to repeat over and over again. Like in a loop.
Are they 100% true?
No thoughts seem true, but they are not 100% true, in the sense that they are a representation of what is happening, they can never be the real deal.
What are you, when you don't think about what you are?
This question is hard to answer. It feels like silence and whatever is happening, but is not clear yet.

Thank you!

Love

Deneb

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Re: Liberation

Postby poppyseed » Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:33 am

Hi Deneb
Very good looking!
No there is no one or anything which recognizes the thought or it is aware of it. But thoughts are so fast that it creates the illusion that there is someone. Attention has to be sharp to recognize this.
Yes! A sequencing of thoughts creates the illusion, like the frames of a movie, where rapid series of still images create the illusion of movement. When frame rate slows down all the illusion of movement is lost. But what is attention? Is it separate from thoughts? Are there two – attention and thoughts – or just thinking? Now, look! For an illusion to be seen as that or not, there is a need for a reference point (a center) - something to identify with thoughts, believe them, or see the illusion. So, check is there anything that believes them or doesn’t? Is there ‘believing’ or just thinking? Just look, what is it that is separate from what is, and trying to figure out how things are? Is there anything here, that is separate and isolated from what is, from reality, and thus is in need to understand reality?
One thing was notice, some thoughts are more sticky than others, have more emotion behind them.
What do they stick to? What is the glue made of? What drives it? Yes, you are right, emotion is there. So what is emotion in DE? How does it make thoughts stickier?
No, the flow of thoughts cannot be changed. Sometimes it is very intense and sometimes it is more quiet. There are like the weather.
YES!!! I loved that analogy!
What are you, when you don't think about what you are?
This question is hard to answer. It feels like silence and whatever is happening, but is not clear yet.
Dig more! Is the silence an absence of an answer, or is it the answer?

Let’s have a look at the idea of control, choice and decisions. Please explore the two exercises below and report your findings
1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
2. Put two objects that you like in front of you (e.g. a cup of coffee and a glass of juice), then pick up one or the other, while paying attention to the whole process of choosing.
Watch like a hawk. Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ or and entity that is choosing be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over?
Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over.
3. Can you please take me through a biggish decision that you made recently - not something very personal so you share more details about it? How did it come to be? Consider all of the conditions that were necessary for it to happen. If any one of those conditions were different, would the outcome have been the same? How many of these conditions were outside of your influence? What was in your control (according to thought)?
Please give me some details about your decision making...
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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TheUnborn
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Re: Liberation

Postby TheUnborn » Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:34 am

Hi Rali!
I hope you are doing great!
But what is attention?
Attention feels like the absence of separation, just what is happening. It is also not very clear what it is yet, but that is how it feels.
Are there two – attention and thoughts – or just thinking?
There is just thinking and sound, smell, color, sensation, taste.
So, check is there anything that believes them or doesn’t?
No, there is not a thing that believes them or doesn’t, it just more thought.
Is there ‘believing’ or just thinking?
There is just thinking. Believing is another thought.
Just look, what is it that is separate from what is, and trying to figure out how things are?
There is nothing separate from what is, thought make it appear as if there was someone separate. Trying to figure out how things are is more thoughts.
Is there anything here, that is separate and isolated from what is, from reality, and thus is in need to understand reality?
No there is nothing separated and isolated from what is, from reality, therefore no need to understand reality. The seeking for understanding is more thought.
One thing was notice, some thoughts are more sticky than others, have more emotion behind them.
What do they stick to?
They stick to more thoughts. It seems that they are sticky because the emotion is connected to the next thought and so on.
What is the glue made of?
the glue is made of more thoughts and the sensation of the body. But my guess is that the sensation in the body and the thoughts are not separate. But thoughts make it so.
What drives it?
Nothing drives it, it I just what is happening.
So what is emotion in DE?
In DE emotion is sensation in the body, follow by thought.
How does it make thoughts stickier?
When there is resistance thoughts become stickier. They start to create a story of why things should o shouldn’t be the way they are. Not realizing that is what is happening and could not be any other way.
What are you, when you don't think about what you are?
This question is hard to answer. It feels like silence and whatever is happening, but is not clear yet.
Is the silence an absence of an answer, or is it the answer?
Silence is the answer, is what is happening.
Let’s have a look at the idea of control, choice and decisions. Please explore the two exercises below and report your findings
1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
2. Put two objects that you like in front of you (e.g. a cup of coffee and a glass of juice), then pick up one or the other, while paying attention to the whole process of choosing.
Watch like a hawk. Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…
How is the movement controlled?
The movement is not controlled it is just happening. The thought of someone doing it comes after the fact.
Does a thought control it?
No, the thought comes after the movement.
Can a ‘controller’ or and entity that is choosing be located?
Thought of someone controlling happens but there is no one that can be located that is choosing.
How is the decision made to turn the hand over?
It is not clear, but the it just happens, the thought, I make the decision comes after the action.
3. Can you please take me through a biggish decision that you made recently - not something very personal so you share more details about it? How did it come to be?
Last year I decided to change my career from data analysis to Fullstack developer. I already knew some programming but I wanted to become more proficient at it, because I was not finding the job that I wanted and because I like it more. Also it could benefit in the long run if life brings me back to data analysis or data engineering.

Consider all of the conditions that were necessary for it to happen. If any one of those conditions were different, would the outcome have been the same?
No the outcome would have been different, in reality it seems that my decision has more weight than it really does in the outcome. Many things have to happened for things to be the way they are.

How many of these conditions were outside of your influence?
Many conditions were outside of my influence. I had to get fired in order for me to come to this instance. I was very comfortable in my previous job, even thought I knew my skills were not updating. I also worked for a short period of time with some friends and that did not worked out. I wanted to go to India and stay there for a while but for some weird reason that didn’t pan out either.
What was in your control (according to thought)?
According to my thoughts studying hard in order to enter into the programming bootcamp was in my control. Deciding to enter the bootcamp, instead of continue doing self study. I think that is about it haha.
Some of my decision making was hard according to thoughts. I was a little bit confuse for sometime if changing to a career of programming was the right decision. I was worried that I was wasting my experience in data analysis, a field that is growing. Programming software is also growing, but data analysis is a hotter field at the moment. So it is interesting how thoughts make the illusion that decisions have more weight than they truly have.

Thank you very much for all your great pointers!

Love

Deneb

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poppyseed
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Re: Liberation

Postby poppyseed » Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:53 am

Hi Deneb
Thank you so much for your perseverance and effort! I really enjoyed reading your answers.
When there is resistance thoughts become stickier. They start to create a story of why things should o shouldn’t be the way they are. Not realizing that is what is happening and could not be any other way.
Yes! Resistance is a very good pointer for what needs to checked. The same way like when you lie about something it causes uneasiness and constriction, resistance points to inaccurate thoughts. So every time resistance appears, thank it and then LOOK at what it is pointing to.
According to my thoughts studying hard in order to enter into the programming bootcamp was in my control. Deciding to enter the bootcamp, instead of continue doing self study. I think that is about it haha.
Some of my decision making was hard according to thoughts. I was a little bit confuse for sometime if changing to a career of programming was the right decision. I was worried that I was wasting my experience in data analysis, a field that is growing. Programming software is also growing, but data analysis is a hotter field at the moment. So it is interesting how thoughts make the illusion that decisions have more weight than they truly have.
Was that really in your control? If it is always based on some previous event, how can that be in your control? Your inclinations, conditioning, etc. all come to play a role in “decision making”, and those are built on top of other things. So, is there a “decision” at all or just cause and effect playing out and thought coming along “claiming” the ownership of the outcome?
Here is a video that you might find interesting:
https://vimeo.com/90101368?fbclid=IwAR3
Let’s take it a bit further…
Many things have to happened for things to be the way they are.
Do cause and effect exist without thought? How are ‘cause’ and ‘effect’ experienced directly? What is time without memory (thought content)? Can you directly experience ‘past’ or ‘future’? Can you directly experience ‘1 min ago’ or ‘1s ago’?
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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TheUnborn
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Re: Liberation

Postby TheUnborn » Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:57 am

Hi Rali!!!
Hope you are doing well!
According to my thoughts studying hard in order to enter into the programming bootcamp was in my control. Deciding to enter the bootcamp, instead of continue doing self study. I think that is about it haha.
Some of my decision making was hard according to thoughts. I was a little bit confuse for sometime if changing to a career of programming was the right decision. I was worried that I was wasting my experience in data analysis, a field that is growing. Programming software is also growing, but data analysis is a hotter field at the moment. So it is interesting how thoughts make the illusion that decisions have more weight than they truly have.
Was that really in your control?
It was not really in my control, the more thought is observed it can be seen that decisions are already predetermine by previous condition. What gives the feeling of control is another thought that says “I decided”. Is very similar to the thought “things are happening to me”.
If it is always based on some previous event, how can that be in your control?
Yes, it is not. I also have the feeling that there is no previous events, it is always what is happening in the moment. The action reaction concept is just that a concept. But it gives the illusion of continuation. This is not yet very clear.
So, is there a “decision” at all or just cause and effect playing out and thought coming along “claiming” the ownership of the outcome?
There is just cause and effect playing out and thought claiming the ownership of the outcome which is another thought. And this thought has a feeling of past, creating a sense of time.
Here is a video that you might find interesting:
https://vimeo.com/90101368?fbclid=IwAR3
The video is very interesting. It is amazing that it takes 6 seconds to create the thought of ownership of the decision making. It feels almost instantaneous.

Many things have to happened for things to be the way they are.
Do cause and effect exist without thought?
In direct experience, if attention is clear, cause and effect seem to be only a though. This is not perfectly clear yet, but it is perceive this way sometimes.
How are ‘cause’ and ‘effect’ experienced directly?
They are experience as a thought, as a story created by thoughts. What is happening in direct experience is just that, it feels spontaneous without the story of cause and effect.
What is time without memory (thought content)?
There is no time without memory. In direct experience thought/memories create the illusion of past, nevertheless they are thoughts happening in now in the present. Maybe that is why scientist have discover that memories are very unreliable.
Can you directly experience ‘past’ or ‘future’?
No I cannot experience past or future, only thoughts/memories and thoughts of future, which, when paid close attention are just stories.
Can you directly experience ‘1 min ago’ or ‘1s ago’?
Only what is happening this moment can be experience. One min ago or 1 second ago are just thoughts, they can only be experience as thoughts but not as an experience.

Thank you Rali for all your great pointers and for all your help!

Love

Deneb

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Re: Liberation

Postby poppyseed » Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:44 am

Hi Deneb
Yes, it is not. I also have the feeling that there is no previous events, it is always what is happening in the moment. The action reaction concept is just that a concept. But it gives the illusion of continuation. This is not yet very clear.
They are experience as a thought, as a story created by thoughts. What is happening in direct experience is just that, it feels spontaneous without the story of cause and effect.
Very good! Remember the analogy with the frames of a movie. There is no illusion of movement (story) when frame rate is slowed down.
In direct experience, if attention is clear, cause and effect seem to be only a though. This is not perfectly clear yet, but it is perceive this way sometimes.
Illusions are quite interesting – you know it is an illusion, but it can look the same even after truth about it is known. Have you ever seen a Kanizsa Triangle?
Image

At this point, it will be a good DE exercise to get out for an actual walk in nature and observe interconnectedness. See how ALL is moving interdependently, including thinking and the senses. Hold these questions in mind:
Is there anything that is separate from everything else?
Is there a border that divides “me” and “my body” from everything else, or is it just a thought? Is that interdependent movement outside of you? Is there an “inside” and an “outside”?
Is there an owner of being?
Are there others? Is there an “I” in others?
Is there a “you”?

Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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TheUnborn
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Re: Liberation

Postby TheUnborn » Fri Feb 03, 2023 7:12 pm

Hi Rali!

Hope everything is well!
llusions are quite interesting – you know it is an illusion, but it can look the same even after truth about it is known. Have you ever seen a Kanizsa Triangle?
I have never seen the Kanizsa Triangle before, it is amazing how the mind works very hard to create a sense of depth and form, to integrate what it is seeing into something it recognizes.
I haven’t had an experience of non duality in the visual field but they say everything looks like in 2D, as things are, without the filtering of the mind.

At this point, it will be a good DE exercise to get out for an actual walk in nature and observe interconnectedness. See how ALL is moving interdependently, including thinking and the senses. Hold these questions in mind:
Is there anything that is separate from everything else?
No there is nothing that is separate from everything else, everything is connected in what is happening, nothing exist without anything else it is impossible haha. But thoughts makes this weird assumption that the body and thought are somehow separate.
Is there a border that divides “me” and “my body” from everything else, or is it just a thought?
It is the thought of I am here and everything else is out there including the body. A thought that there is something interacting with everything that is out there. Is like in dreams, things seem to be separated but the dream is integrated in one story, nothing can be separated otherwise it would not be in the dream.
Is that interdependent movement outside of you?
No, from this perspective there is no outside there is just this, everything happening together, like I just describe in the dream state.
Is there an “inside” and an “outside”?
There is no inside or outside, everything happens at the same time, thought creates the illusion of inside and outside when the thought “I am here” appears, and the thought “I am doing/seeing/playing/etc things”.
Is there an owner of being?
There is I thought “I am the owner of things and what its happening”, but its just a thought, a concept.
Are there others?
There can not be others if there in no one that owns being or there is no inside or outside. Everything is a whole playing itself out. It is interesting that when I see or interact with other people the thought of separateness is more in the forefront, the subtle perception that everything is interconnected becomes almost imperceptible.

Is there an “I” in others?
There is no “I” in others. The me thought and feeling creates the illusion that there are others separate from me and that they also have an “I” that is doing/saying/interacting with me and the world.
I think this is the strongest belief that thought creates, because it feeds from one I thought to the other, like a ping-ball machine when the ball gets rolling and hitting all the right triggers haha.
Is there a “you”?
There is not me, me is a thought that when believe creates the belief of separation from interconnectedness.
The belief is very strong, and covers itself in layers, it is very uncomfortable too. Creates very uncomfortable sensation in the body in all types of situations haha.

Thank you very much Rali!

Love

Deneb

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Re: Liberation

Postby poppyseed » Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:06 pm

Hi Deneb
Really good looking!
I haven’t had an experience of non duality in the visual field but they say everything looks like in 2D, as things are, without the filtering of the mind.
Is there an expectation that seeing will somehow change when the illusory nature of “I” is seen? If so, it’s not how it works (FAQ’s of what Liberation Unleashed is NOT). Why do you think that anything will change? It’s not like anything has changed since the beginning of the inquiry with the exception maybe of thinking content (perception).
But thoughts makes this weird assumption that the body and thought are somehow separate.
Thoughts are always out of step with reality, and they obstruct the clear seeing of how things actually are. Reality is very simple. Once you can see this, you will stop endlessly frustrating yourself by trying to figure out how things are.
Just look, what is it that is separate from what is, and trying to figure out how things are?
Is there a self or me here, who is separate and isolated from what is, from reality, and thus is in need to understand reality?

Otherwise, how is life these days? Is there still seeking?
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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TheUnborn
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Re: Liberation

Postby TheUnborn » Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:54 pm

Hi Rali!

I hope you are doing great!
haven’t had an experience of non duality in the visual field but they say everything looks like in 2D, as things are, without the filtering of the mind.
Is there an expectation that seeing will somehow change when the illusory nature of “I” is seen?
There is no expectation that seeing will somehow change when the illusory nature of "I" is seen.
At the moment I don't really know what to expect, the whole process of breaking the illusory nature of the "I" has had so many twist and turns because of all the preconceive ideas I had of the whole en-devour, that letting go has become more natural.
Why do you think that anything will change? It’s not like anything has changed since the beginning of the inquiry with the exception maybe of thinking content (perception).
The reason the thought of things changing is because of other people talking about it, but the only thing that really matters is my DE, and that is what I should work with. Yes nothing has change so far. Thinking content has become less sticky and the emotion that comes with it has also becomes less sticky and less strong. Thought comes and goes more freely.
Thoughts are always out of step with reality, and they obstruct the clear seeing of how things actually are. Reality is very simple. Once you can see this, you will stop endlessly frustrating yourself by trying to figure out how things are.
Just look, what is it that is separate from what is, and trying to figure out how things are?
There is nothing separate of what is. The thoughts that created the feeling of separateness are also part of what is happening. Also the thoughts that are trying to figure things out are part of what is.

Is there a self or me here, who is separate and isolated from what is, from reality, and thus is in need to understand reality?
There is no me or self that is isolated from what is, from reality. No self to understand reality. There are only thoughts creating the story of a self trying to understand how things are and how they work.
Otherwise, how is life these days?
Life is good, the thought of self is getting less sticky and there is more moments of seeing things as they are. There is still some resistance to what is happening and can be very uncomfortable sometimes but it is getting weaker.
Is there still seeking?
There is still some seeking in the form of thinking that the external world will provide something that will remove the resistance and provide “happiness”. There is also still some seeking of validation from others. Very rooted ideas like this are still believed, otherwise I would be seeking any more.

Thank you very much for all your time and help!

Love

Deneb

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poppyseed
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Re: Liberation

Postby poppyseed » Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:02 am

Hi Deneb
All is good, thanks for asking!
At the moment I don't really know what to expect, the whole process of breaking the illusory nature of the "I" has had so many twist and turns because of all the preconceive ideas I had of the whole en-devour, that letting go has become more natural.
The reason the thought of things changing is because of other people talking about it, but the only thing that really matters is my DE, and that is what I should work with.
Yes, you are right, there is so many stories (excuse the DE pun 😊) out there now, and “teachers” preaching how it supposed to look and feel, that to have no expectations is almost impossible. And this is why I asked you to let go of expectations – they can come in the way of seeing. As you can see, when realisation happens, it can be very subtle and if there are expectations of any kind, then it can be missed and the guiding becomes very difficult. As you see now, it is all much simpler and ordinary.
Thinking content has become less sticky and the emotion that comes with it has also becomes less sticky and less strong. Thought comes and goes more freely.
Amazing, right?
There is nothing separate of what is. The thoughts that created the feeling of separateness are also part of what is happening. Also the thoughts that are trying to figure things out are part of what is.
Very good! Well observed!
There is still some resistance to what is happening and can be very uncomfortable sometimes but it is getting weaker.
Do you remember when you learned how to ride a bicycle? At first, you couldn't ride it. Then, there a was a moment when you suddenly succeeded. For the first two or three rides it might have been a bit awkward. Then, it becomes so natural that you don't care about how to ride it anymore. You simply ride it, and it's indeed simple!

When the core belief has been busted, a lot of other beliefs will still be hanging around. What you want to do at this point is LOOK and LOOK again. Keep your eyes open, let the beliefs come to the surface. Keep looking. They will come up one by one ready to be examined and released. Don’t fight them. Hold on to nothing. As soon as you start holding on to beliefs and ideas, you get stuck - you feel right about something and feel like you have an opinion. To unstick, just let it all fall off. That means question everything you are certain about. It may take a few months to settle in, but everyone is different, so there is no way to know how long it will take for everything to be re-examined. Sometimes it is intense, sometimes it’s gentle, but there is no finish line, only falling deeper and deeper into peace. Looking is the tool that has to be used over and over again. “Crossing the gate” is only the beginning of a long integration and re-evaluation. All this old conditioning has to be seen for what it is. The best part is that the cleaning happens on its own – it takes care of itself. When fear or resistance appears, it just shows that there are areas that have not been examined and need to be explored with DE. You are seeing it, resistance is pointless. And yet it is here. Accept resistance and thank it for doing such a great job. Can you see that resistance is a friend? If not, have a look. Notice the mechanism is working perfectly.
There is still some seeking in the form of thinking that the external world will provide something that will remove the resistance and provide “happiness”. There is also still some seeking of validation from others. Very rooted ideas like this are still believed, otherwise I would be seeking any more.
For a day or two, just watch the wanting comes up. You don’t need to do anything but notice and acknowledge. Watch what happens, and notice how it feels. Feel the gap between wanting and not having, and observe what sensations are triggered when wanting appears. Bringing attention to the mechanism of wanting will reveal curious things.

It’s common to think that happiness has to come from somewhere else, from outside; only then, you imagine, will you be happy. Wanting happiness is the flip side of lacking happiness. Wanting is a sign that something is incomplete, or missing. Here is another angle. Wanting happiness is just that — wanting.
Spontaneous actions are happening, and so is the thought story (as you said). There is a story about trying to be happy and not succeeding and feelings arise with the failure. It is interesting to watch how all this works, how thoughts of lacking and wanting create a ripple of sensations, and how you can’t control any of it. Sensations arise; take a look at them. Which one of them is the sensation of “being unhappy”? Can you pinpoint it? What is that sensation without the label? Is the sensation “unhappy” itself? Inquire into the sensation and ask if the sensation itself knows anything about ‘happy/unhappy’.
Stay with the sensation, experience everything fully. Let it play out. It might be uncomfortable, but supressing it doesn’t work anyway. The only way to find peace is to surrender to what is. Wishing it away is not going to work. Resistance arises when we say “no” to what is happening. But it doesn’t really matter - life keeps on happening. The only difference is all the feelings that arise. You can hate or love, life will happen anyway. Peace/happiness is always present but it is clouded by the thoughts. What we call suffering is made up story about “shoulds” and “should nots”.
In simple everyday life, what is happening is happening. Thinking about being unhappy, flow with whatever is happening. If there is action you can take when a want comes up, then take it. If not, just watch, smile, take notes, and release.

Is there anything else that you want to explore together specifically?
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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TheUnborn
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Re: Liberation

Postby TheUnborn » Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:44 pm

Hi Rali!
I am glad everything is going well!
Thinking content has become less sticky and the emotion that comes with it has also becomes less sticky and less strong. Thought comes and goes more freely.
Amazing, right?
It is amazing when you start seeing thoughts as they, their strength diminishes making it easier to inquire into their nature and also being able to stay with the emotions, without resisting them.

Can you see that resistance is a friend? If not, have a look. Notice the mechanism is working perfectly.
Yes is very good friend, it always pointing that something is off, that beliefs are getting in the way of DE. Sometimes the discomfort is very strong and blurs seeing clearly where the resistance is pointing at, but that also is clearing up. It is getting easier to see clearly which is the belief that is creating the resistance.
It’s common to think that happiness has to come from somewhere else, from outside; only then, you imagine, will you be happy. Wanting happiness is the flip side of lacking happiness. Wanting is a sign that something is incomplete, or missing. Here is another angle. Wanting happiness is just that — wanting.
This pointer has helped me so much to see that wanting is just that. I don’t have to act on the wanting just let it be.
Sensations arise; take a look at them. Which one of them is the sensation of “being unhappy”?

It is a thought and a sensation that says and feels things should be a certain way and if they are that way “I” would be happy. It creates seeking and time that in the future things will be better if some criteria/thought is met.
Can you pinpoint it?
I can observe the thought and the sensation but they are not permanent they come and go like all that happens.

What is that sensation without the label?
The sensation without the label is just sensation. Once the label is seen the sensation has a very short life.
Is the sensation “unhappy” itself?
The sensation is no “unhappy” itself, it is uncomfortable but if there is no resistance to it the discomfort is not that strong and disappears quicker.

Inquire into the sensation and ask if the sensation itself knows anything about ‘happy/unhappy’
When inquire into the sensation there is no knowledge of anything about ‘happy/unhappy’, it is just happening, what creates the story of happy/unhappy are concepts.
Is there anything else that you want to explore together specifically?
I think we can explore more fear. Is so prevalent in my experience at times, that I think I have to examine more the beliefs that perpetuate it.

Thank you very much for you time and your guidance it has been very helpful.

Love

Deneb

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poppyseed
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Re: Liberation

Postby poppyseed » Wed Feb 08, 2023 8:12 am

Hi Deneb
I think we can explore more fear. Is so prevalent in my experience at times, that I think I have to examine more the beliefs that perpetuate it.
Fear is even more powerful pointer then resistance. Fear serves to protect core beliefs – like “I”, ”others”… The fear itself is not to be feared. It's a mechanism, working perfectly as a security system. It is protecting something. It is a sensation like resistance, that fires together with a thought. Look at fear and just let it be here. Find where in the body is being felt, bring it closer, invite it to share its wisdom. It's fine to just let it be. Respect it. Bow to it. Then look what is behind it. What is it protecting? What is it like, then, to just be with the ‘fear’? Seeing that no one is here doing, thinking, living a life of a separate entity does not automatically end all fears and resistance that you feel. All that constructs “you”- thoughts, beliefs, fears, habits, etc - did not form in a day, so it does not usually disappear in a day either. Look closer. Is the story that comes with it true? The key to emotions is being able to allow the sensations all the room they need without pushing them aside or wanting them to be different. Once there is no resistance (there is surrendering) to a sensation/feeling, then it transforms.

If you share what specific fears come up, I can help you LOOK, but otherwise, the approach is as I described above.
You can also watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD588g2w
Please let me know how I can help you further.
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti


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